One for Lance fans
Comments
-
dennisn wrote:don key wrote:zippypablo wrote:I wouldn't describe myself as his biggest fan but can't be bothered with the vitriol he seems to attract.
Anyway Jan's in the coverage too. Maybe I should've tiltled it "one for TDF fans)
What about the vitriol he projects?
Is he criticizing you and your family or friends personally? How does Lance criticizing anyone affect you? And why would it? He really makes you angry, doesn't he? You seem controlled by Lance? He could make you do lots of things I would guess. You think
that I'm under his "spell" but I'm guessing it's the other way around. Like I once said to
aurelio(but got no responce) "He who makes you angry, controls you". Not sure who said it but on this forum it rings true.
You seem to have a brilliant streak when it comes to imagining the nonexistent in others, congratiulations in that regard, now go and put you clothes back on.
Your spell is I hope, self imposed , otherswise you have good grounds for a divorce from reality.
The "let's be real here" is great indeliberate humour. Cat groans to lion.0 -
don key wrote:dennisn wrote:don key wrote:zippypablo wrote:I wouldn't describe myself as his biggest fan but can't be bothered with the vitriol he seems to attract.
Anyway Jan's in the coverage too. Maybe I should've tiltled it "one for TDF fans)
What about the vitriol he projects?
Is he criticizing you and your family or friends personally? How does Lance criticizing anyone affect you? And why would it? He really makes you angry, doesn't he? You seem controlled by Lance? He could make you do lots of things I would guess. You think
that I'm under his "spell" but I'm guessing it's the other way around. Like I once said to
aurelio(but got no responce) "He who makes you angry, controls you". Not sure who said it but on this forum it rings true.
You seem to have a brilliant streak when it comes to imagining the nonexistent in others, congratiulations in that regard, now go and put you clothes back on.
Your spell is I hope, self imposed , otherswise you have good grounds for a divorce from reality.
The "let's be real here" is great indeliberate humour. Cat groans to lion.
Well, does he make you angry? It would seem so. Why do you let this happen? What has he done to you and / or yours that you are so outraged? I realize you won't answer these questions but I try. Why be so against someone and get all worked up every time you read about him or see his picture? I don't follow. Lifes to short.0 -
Yeah, your trying me but I'm not uretripe.
The more you make up about me the more I find myself not liking this ficticious person, where did you two meet? I find your seam sewing quite interesting, the reason your pockets are empty I spose is cos you moist likely missed a stitch. You keep up the amazinlg deluded nobsrvations and I will be genuinely amuazed. I know others, legions of them, have pointed out your mislaying of facts on issues as wide as the Misted hippy, it goes with the flow but when you self sink midstream there is nothing I can do to shave your livid imagination, hoop this helps.0 -
Hopefully this ok to post but it shows what Lance is doing for cancer awareness.
3. What Lance means to cancer survivors by Mike Grisenthwaite
I was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in April 2000 and a friend of mine gave me Lance Armstrong's book It's Not About The Bike two weeks later. I was 37 and I'd always been used to high levels of fitness - I played rugby for Sale in the mid-90s and, after I retired, I started doing triathlons and marathons. At the time, my wife had just given birth to our first son, so the change was overwhelming. I went from some kind of superman to a cancer victim.
Straightaway, Lance's book became the text to refer to whenever I was in doubt or in need of inspiration. I always knew that the treatment I was having wouldn't get rid of the cancer type I had: lymphoma is a gradual process; all the time it's spreading throughout your body and eventually it destroys your immunity. But I had this gut feeling that if I stayed fit and healthy I would be in a better position to fight whatever came along. Having the example of someone who could go to those depths and get back - not only to ride the Tour de France but win it - was a massive boost. I'm not saying I carried it around under my arm, quoting it verbatim, but that book was the seed for everything I have done since.
By 2005, I was starting to think I might have cracked it, but in February the lumps came back and the whole circus started again. This time the cancer had spread much more - it was really scary stuff. But two amazing things happened: first, my brother was confirmed as a bone marrow donor; and second, I had been warned to expect a relapse in two or three years, but because it had been five, there were new drugs on the market and one in particular, Rituximab, was key. This was a huge thing for me because I believe that the level of fitness I maintained got me to that point - five years, rather than two or three.
In summer 2005, Lance was riding his last - or so we thought - Tour. I got it into my head that I had to go and see him, so a bald, slightly bloated version of me headed down to the Alps with my friend and we watched a couple of stages. I stood on a switchback and, because obviously he wasn't going flat out, I'm sure Lance clocked me when he went past.
I shouldn't have been there - I was advised not to go, but it was a bit of a pilgrimage. At that stage, because the bone marrow transplant is very risky, I didn't know if I was going to survive the next six months. I was on my bike, but I was really struggling; still, I managed to get up all the turns of the Alpe d'Huez twice.
I think a lot about whether Lance might have taken performance-enhancing drugs during his career. Personally, I try to avoid medication as much as possible. You've had so many chemicals pumped through your body, why would you risk your health for the sake of a few seconds on the road? The funny thing is that when I was recovering from the transplant I was given the artificial hormone EPO - legally, obviously, because it was designed for people like me who were low in red blood cells. Six weeks after, I did a 300km race in Sweden and completed it in less than 10 hours - my healthy mates were two or three hours behind me.
Just after the relapse, I started Cyclists Fighting Cancer. There are 1,700 new cases of childhood cancer a year, and eventually we want to be able to offer any child under 18 who suffers from cancer a bike to go out on. From my own experience, cycling is the best form of exercise-based rehabilitation you can do.
When I heard that Lance was coming out of retirement I was a bit - I hesitate to use the word - disappointed. I wanted him to leave it where it was; it was the perfect story. Then one morning in May, I woke up to a host of emails. Unbeknown to me, the CFC web guy, Luke, had heard Lance say that he was going to dedicate each stage at the Giro d'Italia and the Tour de France to a different cancer story. Luke sent off some details on this amazing young lad called David Poskitt, who is 13 and lost his leg to sarcoma last August, just above the knee. Lance read it out on a video for his site, livestrong.com.
Immediately, we were inundated with offers from people around the world volunteering to help. We are still a bit shell-shocked really, because we are just a little charity surviving on donations. Lance has said that his reason for returning to cycling was to promote the message of cancer survivorship and - although some people are sceptical - he has really proved that is possible. A short video message on his website will make such a difference to kids in the UK who are suffering from the illness.
For me, it was weird because he read out this mission statement I'd written a while back and it was like a completion of the circle. It sounds odd, but I'd read his words in 2000 and now he was reading mine - it meant quite a lot to me.
• Mike Grisenthwaite is the founder of Cyclists Fighting Cancer, cyclistsfc.org.uk0 -
Apparently, some people also get comfort from believing in 'God', angels and pixies...0
-
aurelio wrote:Apparently, some people also get comfort from believing in 'God', angels and pixies...
and if they want to why shouldnt they ? Who says your beliefs are the correct ones to follow i dont believe in pixies or fairies or for that matter god but i respect the right of others to . Its quite something in LA haters that they feel the need to decide who can take hope and who cant...........i mean what is it with you people ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
FOAD wrote:LA raising awareness of cancer?
Was anyone on here or pretty much anywhere else, not aware of it already.
Most of my family above the age of 60 have it or have died of it, and my mother-in-law had breast cancer when she was in her 20's. Same story for a lot of people. So what does LA bring to the table that's new?
So he is riding his bike for "them". I should think all the cancer afflicted around the world can breath a sigh of relief...good old LA.
Your so right!! Cancer UK, Cancer Research etc should stop all the fun runs, pubilicity stunts etc..........cause after all everyone has heard of Cancer!!
Have you actually stopped to think how stupid your post is? :shock:0 -
Hopefully this ok to post but it shows what Lance is doing for cancer awareness.
That post shows nothing of what Lance is doing for cancer awareness. It shows that he gives some people some hope, however.0 -
singlespeedexplosif wrote:Hopefully this ok to post but it shows what Lance is doing for cancer awareness.
That post shows nothing of what Lance is doing for cancer awareness. It shows that he gives some people some hope, however.
:roll:0 -
colint wrote:aurelio wrote:Apparently, some people also get comfort from believing in 'God', angels and pixies...
What ? this is a guy involved with cancer saying armstrongs return has helped him. Is it really so hard for you to accept that he's done ANY good ?
I just dont undrestand why certain posters dont want cancer sufferers to get hope from any source they want. Its as if these people decide what is acceptable and what is not.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:colint wrote:aurelio wrote:Apparently, some people also get comfort from believing in 'God', angels and pixies...
What ? this is a guy involved with cancer saying armstrongs return has helped him. Is it really so hard for you to accept that he's done ANY good ?
I just dont undrestand why certain posters dont want cancer sufferers to get hope from any source they want. Its as if these people decide what is acceptable and what is not.
Perhaps the question should be "What gives aurelio comfort?".0 -
dennisn wrote:Moray Gub wrote:colint wrote:aurelio wrote:Apparently, some people also get comfort from believing in 'God', angels and pixies...
What ? this is a guy involved with cancer saying armstrongs return has helped him. Is it really so hard for you to accept that he's done ANY good ?
I just dont undrestand why certain posters dont want cancer sufferers to get hope from any source they want. Its as if these people decide what is acceptable and what is not.
Perhaps the question should be "What gives aurelio comfort?".
I dont suppose he would be too happy if we trashed it whatever it is...........let the speculation begin
Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Gazzaputt wrote:singlespeedexplosif wrote:Hopefully this ok to post but it shows what Lance is doing for cancer awareness.
That post shows nothing of what Lance is doing for cancer awareness. It shows that he gives some people some hope, however.
:roll:
Forgive me, I'm in my thirties so not up to speed with all the smiley faces. Is that the 'slightly sheepish realisation that I was talking sh1t and somebody just pointed it out' smiley?0 -
butcher_boy wrote:FOAD wrote:LA raising awareness of cancer?
Was anyone on here or pretty much anywhere else, not aware of it already.
Most of my family above the age of 60 have it or have died of it, and my mother-in-law had breast cancer when she was in her 20's. Same story for a lot of people. So what does LA bring to the table that's new?
So he is riding his bike for "them". I should think all the cancer afflicted around the world can breath a sigh of relief...good old LA.
Your so right!! Cancer UK, Cancer Research etc should stop all the fun runs, pubilicity stunts etc..........cause after all everyone has heard of Cancer!!
Have you actually stopped to think how stupid your post is? :shock:
Cancer Uk, Cancer Research etc. are raising money for cancer research, treatments, rehabilitation etc. whether they raise awareness of cancer is pretty arguable, they certainly let you know that people are suffering etc. and ask you to give.
I don't see LA riding in the Giro and being friendly towards the press and saying in his interviews "give money to cancer charities" in fact I don't see him saying anything about cancer, or telling people which of his websites is for charity and which one makes a killing from people who think it is, who could be putting their money to better use for cancer.
Think for a second...Have you actually stopped to think how stupid your post is? :shock:0 -
-
My wonderful wife and my two beautiful children...dennisn wrote:Perhaps the question should be "What gives aurelio comfort?".0 -
Can't quite put my finger on it but it almost seems that some people are saying "Hey, it's
only cancer. How bad could it be?"0 -
Moray Gub wrote:and if they want to why shouldnt they ? Who says your beliefs are the correct ones to follow i dont believe in pixies or fairies or for that matter god but i respect the right of others to . Its quite something in LA haters that they feel the need to decide who can take hope and who cant...........i mean what is it with you people ?
I used to hold similar attitudes until I read The god delusion by Richard Hawkins and I've since changed my mind a bit
I think the Lance thing is different though. He had cancer. He won the Tour after cancer. Therefore if you're suffering from cancer you could look to him as a source of hope. I don't dispute that at all.
My issue was around the bringing accusations about him into the mix as he did in the video. What does that have to do with cancer?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Moray Gub wrote:and if they want to why shouldnt they ? Who says your beliefs are the correct ones to follow i dont believe in pixies or fairies or for that matter god but i respect the right of others to . Its quite something in LA haters that they feel the need to decide who can take hope and who cant...........i mean what is it with you people ?
I used to hold similar attitudes until I read The god delusion by Richard Hawkins and I've since changed my mind a bit
I think the Lance thing is different though. He had cancer. He won the Tour after cancer. Therefore if you're suffering from cancer you could look to him as a source of hope. I don't dispute that at all.
My issue was around the bringing accusations about him into the mix as he did in the video. What does that have to do with cancer?
Well, it is advertising and probably well thought out to have whatever effect is required.
Not that the ad-men always know what they are doing but if the ad gets the desired
effect across then it worked. If not, you won't see it again.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Moray Gub wrote:and if they want to why shouldnt they ? Who says your beliefs are the correct ones to follow i dont believe in pixies or fairies or for that matter god but i respect the right of others to . Its quite something in LA haters that they feel the need to decide who can take hope and who cant...........i mean what is it with you people ?
I used to hold similar attitudes until I read The god delusion by Richard Hawkins and I've since changed my mind a bit
I think the Lance thing is different though. He had cancer. He won the Tour after cancer. Therefore if you're suffering from cancer you could look to him as a source of hope. I don't dispute that at all.
My issue was around the bringing accusations about him into the mix as he did in the video. What does that have to do with cancer?
I've read the Dawkins book as well, it does put the case really well for the damage religion does in society, but we're getting way OT (recommend the book though)
I've no doubt the accusations bit was as much about LA having a pop as anything else, but I still think the message you could get if you're a sufferer is I'm doing this for you, despite the personal abuse etc. I honestly think I'd get something out of it in that situation (my dad died on cancer when I was a kid and I think it would have been a positive thing for me to see).
If we have people saying I'm a sufferer etc (like the earlier post) and LA has helped me in some way, how can anyone argue with it, it's fact. He's an egomaniac, a bully and maybe a few other things but he has and is giving some sort of comfort to cancer sufferers.
Making glib, irrelevany comments like Aurelios about pixes are pointless, and just come across as not being able to accept a fact because it goes against his intractable opionion of every facet of LA.
If his ego gets a kick AND he does something for cancer, I see no problemPlanet X N2A
Trek Cobia 29er0 -
colint wrote:I've no doubt the accusations bit was as much about LA having a pop as anything else, but I still think the message you could get if you're a sufferer is I'm doing this for you, despite the personal abuse etc. I honestly think I'd get something out of it in that situation (my dad died on cancer when I was a kid and I think it would have been a positive thing for me to see).
I'd not thought of it like that and it does make some sense.
Mind you, he could've just said "I could've sat on my sofa, drank beer and dated hot blondes, but I'm here doing this for you" too Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Which is much more of a sacrifice if you ask me :-)Planet X N2A
Trek Cobia 29er0 -
Far from being 'irrelevany' I was pointing out how much of the 'comfort' gained from 'The Armstrong myth' depends on believing things that simply are not supported by the available evidence. Just like religion in fact. How does the saying go? 'Faith is believing what you know isn't true'.colint wrote:Making glib, irrelevany comments like Aurelios about pixes are pointless, and just come across as not being able to accept a fact because it goes against his intractable opionion of every facet of LA.
The first myth is that is that Armstrong 'beat' cancer though the application of his Nietzschean-like will, rather than because he got lucky and had good medical care. I find this to be very disquieting, as it does not seem to be such a very big step to take to think that those who don't survive cancer are somehow to blame for not having a strong enough will to live. Also, it all sits rather too comfortably with what might be called the 'myth of the meritocracy' that Armstrong so strongly represents. (Anyone who has read 'Status anxiety' by Alain de Botton will know the sort of thing I am talking about).
The second part of the myth is that not only did he 'beat' cancer, he then came back and through the application of that self-same Nietzschean will, rather than the use of Epo, "800 ml of packed cells" and all the rest, 'won' the Tour seven times.
OK, so perhaps some do find Armstrong's story to be inspiring, even if they are aware of the doping and what a generally unpleasant individual he appears to be. To be honest I feel sorry for such people. I know that if I were ever facing cancer I would look to my loved ones for support and inspiration, not the likes of Armstrong, or rather the image of Armstrong created by his corporate PR team.
I also have a feeling that by far the biggest beneficiaries of Armstrong's 'cancer awarness campaign' are his own bank account and future political prospects...0 -
P.s. with regards my reference to 'Status Anxiety', the following review of De Botton's book, written by Jeanette Winterson and taken from the Times of March 06 2004, summarises some of the main ideas in the book very well.
In the modern world, low status rarely means starvation, but it often involves a loss of self-respect. Such a blow would have been impossible in the pre-modern world, where roles were fixed for life, and where only the rich suffered from status-anxiety. A Medieval peasant had a hard life, but he never felt personal failure because he did not own the Manor.
There was too, a strong sense that the poor were spared the corrosive ambitions of life, and could live quietly and contentedly with their lot, knowing that God had ordained it. What Alain de Botton calls 'Three stories about our lives' vividly describe the psychological switch from ancient and pre-modern societies, to our own still-evolving complex social structure:
1) The poor are not responsible for their condition.
2) Low status has no moral connotations.
3) The rich are greedy and parasitic, exploiting the skills and resources of the poor.
Such stories, true or not, cushioned the impact of low status, and kept the rich mindful of their duties to others, whether or not they fulfilled them. But by the middle of the eighteenth century, three new stories appeared alongside these reassuring and seemingly self-evident explanations of life's inequalities.
1) The rich are the useful ones, not the poor. Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations (1776) is a beguiling defence of the utility of riches, and, incidentally, the book Margaret Thatcher cited as being the most influential on her political thinking.
2) Status does have moral connotations. This changeabout began benignly enough as a challenge to hereditary power; a person born to rule is not necessarily fit to rule. Napoleon was proud of appointing most of his generals from the street, and the call of revolution and reform alike, was away from an aristocracy and towards a meritocracy. The growing power of America, and its fiercely egalitarian principles, ensured a modern world where in theory, everyone would have a chance, while in practice, any failure could only be ascribed to oneself.
3) The poor are sinful and corrupt, and fail because they are lazy, and or stupid.
Andrew Carnegie, the Scottish-American magnate, and for a time, the world's richest man, wrote 'Those worthy of assistance seldom require assistance. The really valuable men never do.'
The Social Darwinism so popular in the nineteenth century, soon espoused a code where the rich man was not just richer, but in every way better. Under the new meritocracy, charity and compassion were reluctant virtues; why help those who had refused to help themselves?
0 -
Thanks for pointing out my typo, nothing like being childish and petty on an internet forum to pass the summer evenings....
How arrogant can you be to feel sorry for someone not because they have cancer, but because they get inspiration from someone you dislike ?
I'm glad you've got a good family to support you if god forbid you were to fall ill, but not everyone has the same support. Even a loving family may not be the best place to get inspiration becasue of the destroying effect the disease has on people emotions as much as anything else.
I agree LA's image and bank account benefit from his charity work, but that shouldn't detract from the good his charity does.Planet X N2A
Trek Cobia 29er0 -
What do you want me to do instead? Make personal attacks on other posters similar to the one you made on me perhaps?colint wrote:Thanks for pointing out my typo, nothing like being childish and petty on an internet forum to pass the summer evenings....
I was actually saying that I would feel sorry for anyone who did not have sufficient support from their family and friends at such a time. :roll:colint wrote:How arrogant can you be to feel sorry for someone not because they have cancer, but because they get inspiration from someone you dislike ?0 -
aurelio wrote:
I was actually saying that I would feel sorry for anyone who did not have sufficient support from their family and friends at such a time. :roll:colint wrote:How arrogant can you be to feel sorry for someone not because they have cancer, but because they get inspiration from someone you dislike ?
That may be what you're saying now, it's clearly not what you said earlier, despite the childish rolling eyes.Planet X N2A
Trek Cobia 29er0 -
It looks like I am getting to you. Good!colint wrote:glib...childish...petty...arrogant...childish...0
