Bella Jorg : 09 Tour winner will be a doper
Comments
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Nickwill wrote:What I can't understand, is why so many doping obsessed people on this forum take any interest in pro cycling. If it's so bad and makes you all so unhappy, why don't you go and follow a clean sport like.....erm.....? It just seems to make so many of you miserable.
This point never seems to get answered. What motivates the doping obsessed to watch bike races? They probably don't, just sit there searching the internet for quotes from dopers, doctors, journalists.
Frankly as far as I'm concerned until someone fails a test they are clean, whats the point of worrying about the opposite?0 -
Never understimate the power of hope, and the desire of some to see a better future.The Prodigy wrote:This point never seems to get answered. What motivates the doping obsessed to watch bike races?
There are also plenty of reasons to watch bike racing other than following the (usually) dope-fuelled antics of those who get on the podium. For example, there is still 'heroism' enough in the sport to make it inspiring. As Bradley Wiggins put it:
These guys are looked upon as heroes to some young guys - but for me they're not the heroes of the Tour de France - they never were for me. I spent a lot of time in the group finishing an hour down most days and that's where the heroes are for me. Guys like Geriant Thomas, 21 years old - for the last two weeks I've watched him drag himself through the Alps and the Pyrenees on nothing but bread and water - for me - they are the real heroes of the Tour de France - not the guys on the million Euro contracts who are being done for blood transfusions and things like that.
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... script.asp0 -
aurelio wrote:”Maybe I have just been unlucky, because I have been on six teams, and on all six there has been organized doping,” Jaksche said.
Yes, but look at the teams that Jaksche rode for...
Maybe if he'd joined Bouyges Telecom instead he would have a slightly different perspective.0 -
Fair enough, but to refer back to Jorg's comment, he was saying that the winner of the 2009 will be doper, not all of those dragging themselves around in the 'bus' will also be doping...johnfinch wrote:...look at the teams that Jaksche rode for... Maybe if he'd joined Bouyges Telecom instead he would have a slightly different perspective.0 -
aurelio wrote:
Fair enough, but to refer back to Jorg's comment, he was saying that the winner of the 2009 will be doper, not all of those dragging themselves around in the 'bus' will also be doping...johnfinch wrote:...look at the teams that Jaksche rode for... Maybe if he'd joined Bouyges Telecom instead he would have a slightly different perspective.
Unlike yourself who thinks they are all at it.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
aurelio wrote:
Never understimate the power of hope, and the desire of some to see a better future.The Prodigy wrote:This point never seems to get answered. What motivates the doping obsessed to watch bike races?
There are also plenty of reasons to watch bike racing other than following the (usually) dope-fuelled antics of those who get on the podium. For example, there is still 'heroism' enough in the sport to make it inspiring. As Bradley Wiggins put it:
These guys are looked upon as heroes to some young guys - but for me they're not the heroes of the Tour de France - they never were for me. I spent a lot of time in the group finishing an hour down most days and that's where the heroes are for me. Guys like Geriant Thomas, 21 years old - for the last two weeks I've watched him drag himself through the Alps and the Pyrenees on nothing but bread and water - for me - they are the real heroes of the Tour de France - not the guys on the million Euro contracts who are being done for blood transfusions and things like that.
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... script.asp
So you prefer watching the bus come in around 45 mins down each day as opposed to the battle for the GC or stage wins ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
aurelio wrote:
Fair enough, but to refer back to Jorg's comment, he was saying that the winner of the 2009 will be doper, not all of those dragging themselves around in the 'bus' will also be doping...johnfinch wrote:...look at the teams that Jaksche rode for... Maybe if he'd joined Bouyges Telecom instead he would have a slightly different perspective.
...some people DO train harder than others, DO have genetics in their favour, ARE more serious about their sport...but Aurelio trashes them as dopers. Is that fair?0 -
More the pity that such people, if they are riding clean, don't get on the podium because they are beaten by riders who train less hard and have inferior genetics but benefit from the huge advantage to be had from doping. (With a 750 ml of "packed cells" giving a rider, on average, a 12.8% boost in their VO2 max. See earlier in this thread for a reference).Dave_1 wrote:...some people DO train harder than others, DO have genetics in their favour, ARE more serious about their sport..0 -
Not all, but very few clean riders ever get near the podium, let alone win the 'Monuments' and Grand Tours.Moray Gub wrote:
Unlike yourself who thinks they are all at it.aurelio wrote:
Fair enough, but to refer back to Jorg's comment, he was saying that the winner of the 2009 will be doper, not all of those dragging themselves around in the 'bus' will also be doping...johnfinch wrote:...look at the teams that Jaksche rode for... Maybe if he'd joined Bouyges Telecom instead he would have a slightly different perspective.0 -
I can appreciate good honest effort. These days, the dope-fuelled, meaningless but 'entertaining' fight for the podium places doesn't impress me anywhere near as much.Moray Gub wrote:So you prefer watching the bus come in around 45 mins down each day as opposed to the battle for the GC or stage wins ?
That some can still get all worked up about the 'battle for GC' makes about as little sense to me as the fact that some people can get all excited about a pair of large but obviously silicon-filled breasts.
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aurelio wrote:
I can appreciate good honest effort. These days, the dope-fuelled, meaningless but 'entertaining' fight for the podium places doesn't impress me anywhere near as much.Moray Gub wrote:So you prefer watching the bus come in around 45 mins down each day as opposed to the battle for the GC or stage wins ?
what about VDV at garmin, near GC podium at TDF 08...was he juiced? I'd have thought you might give the benefit of the doubt there..see how many tests Menchov is getting? You don't apreciate hard training, dedication. You're perhaps jealous more than anything else ...someone who resents deeply the wins, the results, cause you were never much good at racing in the sport yourself perhaps???/0 -
afx237vi wrote:Er, OK. How about this instead:- So Osama bin Laden is not actually a terrorist?
My point being, just because you don't get caught, it doesn't mean you didn't do it.
By that logic, if a little old lady got battered to death and they didn't catch the killer then we are all the murderer. I'll turn myself in after you do. :roll:To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.0 -
Sirius631 wrote:afx237vi wrote:Er, OK. How about this instead:- So Osama bin Laden is not actually a terrorist?
My point being, just because you don't get caught, it doesn't mean you didn't do it.
By that logic, if a little old lady got battered to death and they didn't catch the killer then we are all the murderer. I'll turn myself in after you do. :roll:
It's hardly comparable, because the amount of murderers in a selected group of people is always going to be minuscule - probably 0.0% in most of the towns across the country. Compare that to the percentage of dopers in a peloton.
Besides, I'm not of the opinion that all pro cyclists are dopers, but where the evidence suggests otherwise, and where people have clearly got away with it - Valverde, Di Luca, others - what's wrong with expressing disapproval? As far as I'm concerned these people should not be welcome in the sport.0 -
Jaksche’s statements haven’t gone down well with some other German riders like Fothen.iainf72 wrote:
But this is because the TdF organisation still hasn’t paid out 170,00 Euro to the (former) Gerolsteiner team from last year’s Tour, and riders like Fothen feel Jaksche might be tarring everyone with the same brush and making less chance of the pay-out ever being a reality.
(Since Schumacher and Kohl were caught doping, the TdF organisation is apparently still unclear in its mind how to determine what bonuses to Gerolsteiner, if any, are warranted.)
Some of what Jaksche says in the full interview is (depending on your interests) mildly interesting, like
– before Epo, the team doctor gave the riders injections without explaining what it was
– later when Epo became the thing, the teams intially paid the costs but then later left it to the riders as a sort of blackmail: after the initial help from the team, it was up to the riders to make sure they ‘bring home the goods’
– his estimate of how Epo helps one rise from 400 watt to 430 watt
– he never ate 3 plates of spaghetti for breakfast, but preferred bread, cornflakes, rice pudding, and scrambled egg with bacon
– his saying the riders only shave their legs because if they don’t they are more likely to get an skin inflammation due to daily massage0 -
The last point is a good one and I agree entirely - also it is painful having a leg rub with hairy legs.0
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knedlicky wrote:Jaksche’s statements haven’t gone down well with some other German riders like Fothen.
Now there is an interesting case with Mr Fothen, of a rider who has not lived up to his earlier promise as u23 world tt champ and wearing the white jersey for most of the 2006 tour, finishing 15th on gc. This year and last he has been nowhere near that kind of form :!:0
