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Fat burning myths

liversedgeliversedge Posts: 1,002
OK.

So I've heard the argument that LSD burns more fat than high Intensity and the counter argument that whilst the percentage of fat burned at higher intensities is lower the overall fat burn is more. Then additionally, the raised metabolism from high intensity causes more fat to be burned after exercise.

Putting aside the third point about raised metabolism, I decided to go and look at the research around this and see how it affected my own personal training.

Guess what?

LSD DOES burn more FAT, both as a percentage and as an absolute number when compared to HIGH INTENSITY. BUT, according to the research the BEST bang per buck for fat oxidation is at 65% vo2max which translates, roughly to TEMPO.

I've tried to summarise this on my blog. Annoyingly the best research around this topic was published in 1995 -- so this isn't earth shattering new research!!!
--
Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
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Posts

  • EdwinEdwin Posts: 785
    I've found that amphetimines are more effective than LSD for weight loss.

    ...although LSD seems o work for Bhima!
  • InfamousInfamous Posts: 1,158
    oh ffs.
  • vorsprungvorsprung Posts: 1,953
    If you want to loose weight then the two best exercise things to do are

    1) ride before breakfast at sub 70% HRMax
    2) ride for an hour or more at 80% HRMax and don't eat afterwards

    1) has been discussed on here recently
    2) is interesting. 80% is seen as a dead zone for training that is a waste of time. It tires you out to the extent that recoveriy is necessary. But it does this without causing overload that will improve performance

    Like you say at 65% or less there is a lot of fat used for energy. But really it does not matter what the source of the energy in the body is. It is the total calorie inputs and outputs that will cause weight loss (or gain). What is being used is not that interesting
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 28,799
    Calories In < Calories out = Newer, slimmer me!
  • Ride one legged with your tongue hanging out whilst wearing a purple tuxedo. Works a treat.
  • vorsprungvorsprung Posts: 1,953
    Ride one legged with your tongue hanging out whilst wearing a purple tuxedo. Works a treat.

    Don't reveal the inner secrets of the cycling illuminatus

    The black ninja cycles will come for you soon
  • amaferangaamaferanga Posts: 6,789
    vorsprung wrote:
    If you want to loose weight then the two best exercise things to do are

    1) ride before breakfast at sub 70% HRMax
    ....

    Isn't that a myth or at least unproven? I thought that it was just supposed to help you become more efficient at burning fat?

    I know myself from many months of arduous touring in Africa a few years back that its possible to become extremely efficient at burning fat - I could go whole days of low/moderate effort without eating much at all. I know that I certainly couldn't do that at the moment....
    More problems but still living....
  • InfamousInfamous Posts: 1,158
    It's a myth. If anything it just makes you go catabolic.
  • keef66keef66 Posts: 13,286
    I must be hideously inefficient at burning fat. If I do anything before breakfast at anything above resting heart rate I tend to black out, so I'd rather not be on the bike when that happens. And that's in spite of ample fat reserves.

    I just stick to the calories in < calories used formula for weight loss. It's not rocket science.
  • sandbagsandbag Posts: 429
    you wont become a much better cyclist sticking to LSD. fine for touring and pleasure rides. you have to do both especially if you competing,TT. there are extra benefits. HIIT trains you for coping with sudden different speeds. the few studies have shown an increase in VO2 max which increased 15% after 6 weeks. you increase strength endurance and speed. .

    doing HIIT high cadences you not working the muscle deeply so recovery time is good. i have done both types. doing HIIT on indoor trainer i found i lost too much fat doing it 2x 1 hour a day 5x a week. i dropped 4-7lb each week and it wasnt water. i had to cut back. i got dramatic crazy results with HIIT. i never got such big power leap in a few weeks doing LSD. the metabolism and energy levels go through the roof long long time after. fat just melts off because your metabolism already high from the last time. couple with a good diet. not everybody got time to do long bike ride. yes you have to establish a good aerobic fitness first. you never exercise on empty stomach thats just nuts. you eat some carbs to do more effective workout. sorry totally disagree with you. HIIT outweighs LSD on numerous counts. using indoor trainer is still harder than road because of the focused consistency even without HIIT. if you take your cycling seriously you do both.

    i recommend for fatty beginners because it trains them to do high cadence and rhythm. they pick a super light easy gear at 90RPM and can do that for 20 mins with safety and kickstarts the fat burning. due to effectiveness ensure you drink lots of water and eat a good diet of protein fats and carbs from natural sources. .this will help the skin adjust as you lose weight.
  • InfamousInfamous Posts: 1,158
    perhaps we can have a cadence myths thread too.
  • sandbagsandbag Posts: 429
    edited June 2009
    Infamous wrote:
    perhaps we can have a cadence myths thread too.
    ok ok without going off topic the myth is there is no set cadence like 90RPM. you cycle at what is naturally efficient to yourself but to get better you train at a higher cadence. you enforce that and you get better in much quicker time and will stand you in good stead for hills.
  • To get better, team banana recommends a TT @ a cadence of 600 RPM @ 6 BPH @ a VO2 MAX of e=mc2 per % increase of Lactic power output during an increased gradient, no less of 20% for every 1.5 MPH increase, unless before 9am.
  • freehubfreehub Posts: 1,447
    What are the effects of eating green bananas?
  • sandbagsandbag Posts: 429
    edited June 2009
    you may think it clever! go ahead and exercise on a empty stomach. that is a great way to lose your muscle fast and your strength. muscle is used up before fat. you will quickly deplete the glycogen in your muscles due to no other energy source and break down muscle. it going backwards.
  • Green bananas are a banned substance because of their performance-enhancing effects.

    They contain EPO and inverse-plural destructive contador-particles, known for performance increases of 377% per fractional ratio of blood cadence proportion.
  • liversedgeliversedge Posts: 1,002
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Calories In < Calories out = Newer, slimmer me!

    I hate to say this, and part of me cannot believe I am saying this, but no.

    If you go out and do a high intensity workout and burn mostly glycogen you are wasting your time for weightloss purposes. The glycogen in your muscles and liver WILL be replaced at some point from your cals in. If you don't replace it (cals out > cals in) and then go out and ride again you'll burn muscle and then you might get slimmer -- but not from burning fat.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • InfamousInfamous Posts: 1,158
    liversedge wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Calories In < Calories out = Newer, slimmer me!

    I hate to say this, and part of me cannot believe I am saying this, but no.

    If you go out and do a high intensity workout and burn mostly glycogen you are wasting your time for weightloss purposes. The glycogen in your muscles and liver WILL be replaced at some point from your cals in. If you don't replace it (cals out > cals in) and then go out and ride again you'll burn muscle and then you might get slimmer -- but not from burning fat.
    :lol:
  • sandbagsandbag Posts: 429
    you going bananas or took too much EPO. you sound classic case of needing a team manager. stay on topic and respect the OP.

    btw you dont need EPO doing high intensity as it is suggested it releases HGH. :D
  • freehub wrote:
    What are the effects of eating green bananas?

    You'll save the planet :wink:

    While we're talking burning fat. I seem to be a front loader as my arms bum legs have got slimmer but I still have a beer belly. Is it just a case of tuftitty as I turn into an old man or should that go eventually if I keep at it?
    Bianchi. There are no alternatives only compromises!
    I RIDE A KONA CADABRA -would you like to come and have a play with my magic link?
  • sandbagsandbag Posts: 429
    While we're talking burning fat. I seem to be a front loader as my arms bum legs have got slimmer but I still have a beer belly. Is it just a case of tuftitty as I turn into an old man or should that go eventually if I keep at it?

    Belly fat is always the last to go. I dont know your history but few suggestions. get your diet in order. dont eat big meals. eat little and often. drink more water. dont eat censored . stay away from alcohol and takeaways. dont eat high carbs but complex carbs. dont over eat on carbs. dont eat lots of bananas.. eat more protein. eat lots of apples. do total body workouts. lift weights as more muscle increases metabolism burning more fat. be consistent. if you want to lose it fastest do short high intensity exercise.
  • r3 guyr3 guy Posts: 229
    I have never heard so much rubbish spouted in one thread before,

    People lets remember the power that these threads have, a noob comes along reads it and then takes it as gospel.

    for proper answers look here

    http://everydaycyclistpodcast.com


    or here

    http://www.hussmanfitness.org/


    BTW sorry if i am grouchy, coming down off a red bull cafiene high :oops:
  • liversedgeliversedge Posts: 1,002
    r3 guy wrote:
    I have never heard so much rubbish spouted in one thread before,
    Specifically?
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • sandbagsandbag Posts: 429
    edited June 2009
    r3 guy wrote:

    for proper answers look here
    http://everydaycyclistpodcast.com

    :

    what is your problem? my answers are backed up with science nutrition fact and 19 years in the gym from bodybuilding. you say that and then point to one thing AB workout. LOL. you are dillusional and classic case of believing concentrated stomach ab exercises will shift fat in that one area . they dont. only cadiovascular exercise that gets the heart beating does that such as a total body workout. since when did shifting belly fat only apply to cycling! all ab crunches will do is create firmer more muscle behind the fat belly making you look fatter! when you exercise FAT comes off from all areas. you cant spot reduce fat from one area the body doesnt work that way.

    at least we have a fat myth in accordance with the thread.

    there are 10 million workout routines! cycling is enough! it cardiovascular. you dont see many fat cyclists do you? are they all in the gym? nooo. voila cardiovascular. you never mention diet. if enough cycling then a improvement in diet is all that is needed and suit the older cyclist more.
  • sandbag is right. you have to fix the diet first and foremost. A total body workout at least 3 times a week at the gym makes you feel fitter, but it wont budge much fat.
    your training has to include:
    cardiovascular strength -cardio at high intensity to increase the strength of the heart and lung. ex. interval training
    cardiovascular endurance: lower intensity cardio for longer periods. this is the actual fat burner i found from personal experience and also from sports science books. fat starts to get mobilised after approx. 30 minutes of low intensity exercise.
    muscular strength. lifting high weights at low reps.
    muscular endurance. lower weights, higher reps
    flexibility. stretches and all that stuff.

    most important is enjoy life, pedal whenever you can and screw the fat. if you live well and exercise whilst enjoying yourself it will go away. And if it stays don't worry. it will keep you warm in winter!
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Infamous wrote:
    perhaps we can have a cadence myths thread too.

    Or even a how to use CAPITAL letters at the start of sentences.

    Yes I know some people are from different countries or may have literacy problems, but come on, is it really too hard to use a capital letter in the appropriate place?
  • sandbagsandbag Posts: 429
    it mentions from your other website first few lines under Resistance Training...
    The best way to raise your metabolism is to build and preserve muscle.

    that is what i had explained. it will burn more fat by lifting weights but as Fungus was saying he getting older. i dont think he appreciate the gym as it hard on the joints. i didnt get technical because whats the point if i dont know his lifestyle, diet or his cycling or how motivated he is to losing weight. i suggested a few basic diet tips. you will commonly hear the fact it 90% diet and 10% exercise. as he already doing cycling eating clean diet will do wonders.

    i suggest what really works. lets take apples. my own experience and from others is more fat loss. you lose a few ponds more.. studies show that people who ate apples lost more weight on apples than those who did not. it due to lots of the fibre pectin. there is a ton of micro nutrients in apples..
    r3 guy wrote:
    BTW sorry if i am grouchy, coming down off a red bull cafiene high :oops:

    there is better or equal alternatives to caffeine that give you energy that dont make you crash.

    if you going to have a pop back it up with some facts.
  • InfamousInfamous Posts: 1,158
    chrisw12 wrote:
    Infamous wrote:
    perhaps we can have a cadence myths thread too.

    Or even a how to use CAPITAL letters at the start of sentences.

    Yes I know some people are from different countries or may have literacy problems, but come on, is it really too hard to use a capital letter in the appropriate place?
    haha amazing. i will never use another capital letter on this forum. you shouldn't of said that.

    what's wrong chris? got bored of bullying bhima?
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    I wasn't aiming that at you, as you only write one line at a time,the capitals don't matter too much, but for the guy who's writting long paragraphs without a hint of a capital :twisted:


    I was kind of agreeing with you (that's why I used your quotes)

    Cadence myths.
    Fat burning myths.
    Banana myths.
    Punctuation myths.
    and some insanely stupid questions has ment this forum going downhill slightly on the advice front. :(

    Still entertaining though. :)
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