The heirarchy of mountain bikes?

Flenser

I remember from the early nineties that the two bikes my mountain biking friend always had were Cannondales and Clockwork Oranges and always cost a grand plus, which was a lot of money in '91.

Having been into cycling and this esteemed forum for a couple of months (lurking mainly!) I also see Specialized, Giant, Trek and all the other make getting a mention often.

At the other end of the scale there's obviously makes like Apollo.

What I'm trying to get at is where do all the other makes fit, the Commencals, the Genesises(?), the Konas, the Marins, the Boardmans, the Carreras etc... Raleigh even?

What's the Rolls Royce of pre-built bikes (not getting into the custom builds here) and what's the Lada?

:?:

supersonic

More to do with the model than the brand.

But people do have preconceptions about certain brands, and believe stuff like handbuilt is better.

nicklouse

there is no real hierarchy as they are not always built by who you think they are.

http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328

salsarider79

Some of the makes often slated are well up to producing good bikes.....

Flenser

nicklouse wrote:

there is no real hierarchy as they are not always built by who you think they are.

http://allanti.com/page.cfm?PageID=328

Interesting article that. Nice one.

nicklouse

it does have a lot of missing info though.

gezzza

But are you that worried about where your bike is made? China, Taiwan can all make bikes as good as anywhere else including the USA.

Flenser

gezzza wrote:

But are you that worried about where your bike is made? China, Taiwan can all make bikes as good as anywhere else including the USA.

Couldn't give a monkey's.

Just wondered what names were the most desirable.

gezzza

Flenser wrote:

gezzza wrote:

But are you that worried about where your bike is made? China, Taiwan can all make bikes as good as anywhere else including the USA.

Couldn't give a monkey's.

Just wondered what names were the most desirable.

I would say the most desirable hardtail XC frame is a Klein Adroit from the early ninety's as they sell for £1500+ second hand. ive seen a one sell for £2.5K for just frame forks and stem/handle bar combo

Jonesy.

gezzza wrote:

I would say the most desirable hardtail XC frame is a Klein Adroit from the early ninety's as they sell for £1500+ second hand. ive seen a one sell for £2.5K for just frame forks and stem/handle bar combo

I'd have to agree

Though I'd change that to a Klein Attitude.

They are remarkable frames, no doubt, though people who pay £1,500+ for them are usually the old skool enthusiasts who want to build up an authentic original bike, often fully rigid. While I can appreciate that sentiment, my Klein is there for riding, and will be upgraded with modern parts as I see fit (then again, my Klein is from the late 90s so was designed to take suspension forks anyway).

bomberesque

I'll take a crack at this, although I accept that it's intentionally controversial. From the OP I am going to assume that the bikes we're talking about are new and off the peg (not custom made, not retro collectors' items) and that we're talking about desirability rather than performance. I'm also excluding DH/big @rsed FR bikes, about which I know little.

I would group the manufacturers as follows;

Supermarket eg. The venerable Huffy
Big-box companies for whom bikes are a sidelineeg. Decathlon and Halfords
Big-box / Big-Name companies for whom bikes are their core business Specialised, Giant, Trek
Designed in a shed, ordered by fax from taiwan by a bloke with specs and a goatee (no disrespect meant here honestly. These manufacturers are probably responsible for the best value for money frames on the market today, especially if steel and/or singlespeed is your thing) eg On-one, Dialled, Charge, Cotic
Ex small volume independant but now owned by Big Box / Big Name eg Klein, Bonty
ndependant but successful Intense, Santacruz
Independant and Niche Ibis, Evil, Curtis, Dekerf
Impossibly Expensive Jones

I'm sure I've missed loads and equally sure this will be upside down in some peoples' eyes.

As for where something is made, I think that mattered more 10 years ago than today when some of the world's highest quality bikes (especially the carbone ones) are being made in China.

Predictably perhaps, I own an Evil and considered a Curtis but went for a Ibis instead. Damn I am a fashion victim! :roll:

ipaintbikes

Can't comment on mountain bikes but I remember kids having Hutch, PK Ripper etc. BMX's in the early 80's and wondering how the hell their parents afforded it.
We were lucky to get very heavy Diamond Back Vipers bought on the tick from the LBS Christmas club

SuperstarComponents.com

Sorry to break it to you, but all bikes are handmade, i dont know of any factory which uses robot welders for everything.

Great crock of marketing as usual.

Obviously some bikes are better made than others, and in my opinion Taiwan has more skill and experience in their welding staff than anywhere in the world. Ive been round lots of the factories and they have better tooling and equipment and better trained and experienced staff than anyone generally. And no the wages are not low like china/africa, the taiwaneese have nicer cars and tvs than most europeans!

Cheap crap comes from Vietnam/China, but even so there are high end factories there which can compete with the best. ditch your generalisations, china is huge, there are more than one quality level!!!

Neil, Superstar Components

supersonic

merida?

ipaintbikes

+1. I see robots:

http://www2.merida-bikes.com/en_GB/About.Factory

supersonic

It does depend how you define 'handmade'. Of course human hands have to operate the machine - but generally the term refers to a fully hand welded frame.

passout

My Hireachy is headed by my bike, followed by your bikes, with everyone else at the bottom. Its simpier that way!

Or you could do it with colour with red at the top and grey at the bottom!

Si78

Wouldn't bother me if a robot welded my frame.

Every weld would be the same, penetration would be perfect, every frame would be perfectly identical.

Infact, I'd probably prefer a Taiwanese robot welded bike to one nailed together by an inebriated redneck on a friday afternoon lol

robertpb

The highest number of state of the art bike factories are in Taiwan.

At the end of the day it's all down to the designer sometimes he makes a cracker sometimes not.

Dazzza

Si78 wrote:

Wouldn't bother me if a robot welded my frame.

Every weld would be the same, penetration would be perfect, every frame would be perfectly identical.

Infact, I'd probably prefer a Taiwanese robot welded bike to one nailed together by an inebriated redneck on a friday afternoon lol

Depends, i have a piece of ally piping welded in my car, seeing it's one of the boost pipes it needs to handle quite a bit of pressure.

The weld itself is far neater than i have ever seen done on a bike, guy is a ex raf aerospace engineer.

http://www.iancarey.co.uk/1.html

llamafarmer

Really good welders are artists, it's a serious skill!

jam1e

I think the mistake some people make is assuming that just because a weld looks good and smooth etc then it's a strong weld. Whilst it's possible for a crappy looking weld to be crap, it's also possible for a really nice smooth weld to be fairly weak...

supersonic

The robot has the advantage of doing the same thing again and again to a variancy humans cannot get near. If it starts right, it ends right.

Anonymous

I always hated the way Cannondale used to grind their welds down. I love seeing a good weld, like pennies stacked on top of each other. I've always assumed that if you grind that away, it's because you've got something to hide!

Underpants

So is my Kona Cinder Cone any good then or not?


Seriously.....

bomberesque

Underpants wrote:

So is my Kona Cinder Cone any good then or not?


Seriously.....

only if it's an early 90's steel one, made by pixies in the canadian outback

toasty

supersonic wrote:

More to do with the model than the brand.

But people do have preconceptions about certain brands, and believe stuff like handbuilt is better.

Indeed, the same goes for wheels, hehe :P

Underpants

bomberesque wrote:

Underpants wrote:

So is my Kona Cinder Cone any good then or not?


Seriously.....

only if it's an early 90's steel one, made by pixies in the canadian outback

2009. Made by a Taiwanese fellow [probably]

boogercj

Maybe what you're trying to get at is "How many cool points does each bike brand get?"

Kinda like a cool wall of bikes... 8)

DMR obviously gets shedloads of cool points, based on their first bike being a classic early ninetees steel hardtail!

Anonymous

Yeah, a mountain biking cool wall, with tongue firmly in cheek, that's a great idea!

EDIT: (although it'll never work, because Orange can never be cool, because they're everywhere, like the common cold. HOWEVER, Orange owners seem to outnumber all other UK mountain bikers by about 90 - 1, so they'd argue their point too strongly, and ruin the fun for everyone!)

boogercj

Setting it up now!