Boonen excluded...thoughts?

aurelio_-_banned

iainf72 wrote:

Ultimately, it's all the same testing. So if it doesn't work on the Americans / Italians / Spanish it's sure a heck not going to work on the French.

So, if I understand your position correctly, whilst the lack of positives for French riders does not show them to be clean, (“French teams. Now I don't doubt they say the right things but talk is cheap”) the lack of positive for American riders (conveniently discounting the previous exploits of Landis, Hamilton, Armstrong and so on) does prove that they are clean, especially anyone riding for Garmin or Columbia. ("I'd suggest doping is less prevelant on the American teams competing at the highest level in Europe").

Sounds about as balanced as the earlier poster who denounced Virenque as a 'massive doper and cheat' and expressed outrage that he commentates on French Eurosport whilst doubtlessly enjoying the Eurosport commentary of Kelly, another heavy-duty doper who, like Virenque was under the needle of Willy Voet! Then again, Kelly isn't French...

iainf72

aurelio wrote:

So, if I understand your position correctly, whilst the lack of positives for French riders does not show them to be clean, (“French teams. Now I don't doubt they say the right things but talk is cheap”) the lack of positive for American riders (conveniently discounting the previous exploits of Landis, Hamilton, Armstrong and so on) does prove that they are clean, especially anyone riding for Garmin or Columbia. ("I'd suggest doping is less prevelant on the American teams competing at the highest level in Europe").

No. Lack of positives does not show anyone to be clean. Be it Garmin riders, FdJ or anyone. That is my position. That's why I said it's the same test for everyone and it's no more or less effective for any one group.

I'm still waiting for something which would indicate that yes, the French riders are cleaner. And they may well be, don't get me wrong, but to a greater or lesser extent they are subject to the same rules and protocols as everyone else.

Blood doping experts often say if you look at profiles you could see Italian and Spanish profiles as they were "suspect" while the northern european countries weren't. But then, boom. it appears most of Austria and Germany were tanked up with whatever was available so that throws that theory out of the window.

aurelio_-_banned

iainf72 wrote:

Lack of positives does not show anyone to be clean. Be it Garmin riders, FdJ or anyone. That is my position.

So, despite what you said earlier, you fully accept that Garmin and Columbia's riders could all be doped to the gills?

iainf72

aurelio wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Lack of positives does not show anyone to be clean. Be it Garmin riders, FdJ or anyone. That is my position.

So, despite what you said earlier, you fully accept that Garmin and Columbia's riders could all be doped to the gills?

Absolutely!

I was trying to wind you up by saying American teams

lucybears

iainf72 wrote:

'm still waiting for something which would indicate that yes, the French riders are cleaner.

for instance, their achievements over the last few years.....

iainf72

lucybears wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

'm still waiting for something which would indicate that yes, the French riders are cleaner.

for instance, their achievements over the last few years.....

I'm with Guimard and Hinault on this - Their lack of achievements is down to attitude rather than anything else.

If you chose to believe Columbia are on the level, then look at how much they win. Pip Gilbert chooses and takes his chances and he's got a few nice results from it.

lucybears

iainf72 wrote:

lucybears wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

'm still waiting for something which would indicate that yes, the French riders are cleaner.

for instance, their achievements over the last few years.....

I'm with Guimard and Hinault on this - Their lack of achievements is down to attitude rather than anything else.

If you chose to believe Columbia are on the level, then look at how much they win. Pip Gilbert chooses and takes his chances and he's got a few nice results from it. [ /quote]

So do you believe that Columbia win because of their attitude rather than anything else?
And as Gilbert is neither a Columbia rider nor French, what is the signifigance of his results? I say that Valverde also 'chooses and takes his chances and he's got a few nice results from it.'

Tempestas

aurelio wrote:

Tempestas wrote:

He has been invited to the launch, organisers send invites...if you don't want someone at your party...you don't invite them

Some people are so unforgiving of others, no matter how many years pass and no matter how much they admit their errors. Personally I would be prepared to forgive even the likes of Landis and Armstrong if they at last came clean. At least Virenque eventually admited to his doping and served out his ban.

Do you think that riders like David Millar, Basso and so on (and teams like Astana) should also be barred from ever appearing at the Tour again?

It's also interesting that you appear to be so convinced that Cavendish is clean. On what grounds I wonder?

Innocent until proven guilty maybe? I guess I am not as cynical as a lot of people.

Can you provide positive proof that the afformentioned riders have used any illegal substances? Answers on a post card to UCI HQ please

iainf72

So looks like Tom mightbe there after all....

iainf72

Judge says court can't rule on Boonen

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/30062009/ ... oonen.html

Pokerface

iainf72 wrote:

Judge says court can't rule on Boonen

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/30062009/ ... oonen.html

It's called "passing zeee buck'.

So what's next? Emergency appeal to C.A.S.?

markwalker

iainf72 wrote:

Judge says court can't rule on Boonen

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/30062009/ ... oonen.html

Its all good new for quickstep though, column inches and all that.

Its part of the fun of the tour "will he wont he"

shinyhelmut

markwalker wrote:

Its all good new for quickstep though, column inches and all that.

Its part of the fun of the tour "will he wont he"

I don't know why they bother with the cycling at all really. The pre tour hype/drug scandals/allegations are much more interesting!