Some advice on getting a first Hybrid - Opinions Please

DonDaddyD

sarajoy wrote:

I'm still not sure I agree that a racer will be best for everyone.

You're right it isn't. Someone with bad knees may struggle to push the large gearing. Someone with a bad back may find the riding position too painful. There is always going to be exceptions. Hell, some might simply not like the look of them.

If that was the case, why didn't the racer bike boom of the 70s stick around forever,

Cost, recession, Thatcher....

why have we had waves of people preferring mountain bike style things, and now this middle ground of hybrids?

Cheaper to develop, produce, manufactuer and ultimately sell. On average a hybrid/mountain bike costs less than the equivilent road bike.

Mountain Bikes are not as physically imposing. The word Mountain implies the bike will be easier to ride up hills.... I remember buying a front suspension Mountain bike expecting to push it up a hill in London and giving up very quickly into it. It's tyres were not suited to the road and neither were the gears, yet it was brushed aluminium and red, looked flashy and everyone else had one.

A more recent wave of hybrids have come about (Giant M2) partly because they are vogue and partly to overcome the impossing image road bikes have. hybrids by comparison don't look as scary, what with the flat bar, no racing decals and wider tyres.

Try as many bikes as you can, but get what'll make you happy. You /may/ change your mind down the line. So what?

I disagree, doing the above implies that the bike isn't a long term purchase and it could/should be.

artaxerxes

There is a Decathlon road bike for £270 (the Sport 1), but to be honest, for £200 I'd go for a 2nd hand road/touring bike with a steel frame.

Although I've not been to any shops in London that specialise in 2nd hand bikes, I've heard there is one near Elephant and Castle.

The_didge

I think theyre called re-cycle... Apparently they dont have alot of bikes and generally a bit expensive...

Eau Rouge

oscarbudgie wrote:

It does seem that when someone says 'what hybrid?' the inevitable response is ' you don't need a hybrid you ned a road bike'. That's fine and often I'd agree, but not always.

It's not an automatic thing. The forum doesn't always agree either and people have had hybrid bikes recommened (though there is also a feeling that anyone who really does need a hybrid over a road bike actually needs a cyclocross bike )
The perception comes from the fact that in the vast majority of these threads the OP comes along already thinking they need a hybrid because they aren't Bradley Wiggins and aren't entering the Giro so therefore they have no need for a road bike, and come along with some misconceptions about road bikes being brittle, breaking if anone over 10st sits on them and requiring a TT position for every ride, but when you look at what riding they say they want to to it's all on the road or over longish distances, exactly the sort of riding a road bike is perfect for. If a road bike is a better fit, it's kinda hard not to recommend one.

oscarbudgie wrote:

I think the advice is good but should be remembered that its advice often given by cycle enthusiasts who commute rather than cycle commuters. Most commuters roll along perfectly happily and not on a road bike.

This is correct, but rather than cycle enthusiasts who commute I'd refer to them as cycle enthusiasts who commute and evangelise about cycling and want more people to become cycling enthusiasts Thats harder to do on a hybrid that really isn't designed for 100mile jaunts in the Surry Hills.

artaxerxes

Using my Google-fu I have found a list of 2nd hand bike shops in London town...
http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=291

Click on the link on the right side of the page to view the PDF doc.

DonDaddyD

Edwardes in Camberwell, may be able to hook you up!

sarajoy

DonDaddyD wrote:

sarajoy wrote:

I'm still not sure I agree that a racer will be best for everyone.

You're right it isn't. Someone with bad knees may struggle to push the large gearing. Someone with a bad back may find the riding position too painful. There is always going to be exceptions. Hell, some might simply not like the look of them.

Well, indeed! Is that so bad?

DonDaddyD wrote:

why have we had waves of people preferring mountain bike style things, and now this middle ground of hybrids?

Cheaper to develop, produce, manufactuer and ultimately sell. On average a hybrid/mountain bike costs less than the equivilent road bike.

I dunno, I think it's been established that people reckon they want full suss MTBs, so that's where the cheapo brands have decided to concentrate - meaning we have lots of naaaasty full suss mountainbikes and heavy hybrids kicking around. A proper full susser (i.e. not made of cheese) would be about a grand, right? A proper road bike starts at £500 or so, it seems. The market's all askew.

DonDaddyD wrote:

Try as many bikes as you can, but get what'll make you happy. You /may/ change your mind down the line. So what?

I disagree, doing the above implies that the bike isn't a long term purchase and it could/should be.

Maybe not, but if you pass it on it will get continued use. My old shopper is now on "long term loan" (meh, I've given it her) to a good mate's girlfriend. You could sell your old M2 on to an aspiring beginner, and they in turn will feel grateful to have cut their teeth on something they felt comfortable with but not spent tons of money on, and will feel free to graduate upwards in their own time.

Stuey01

sarajoy wrote:

A proper full susser (i.e. not made of cheese) would be about a grand, right?

:shock: not at this years prices! (maybe the Boardman). for a grand you'd be better off on a really good hardtail than a cheap full susser.
£1500 for a full susser, now you're talking...

lardboy

The_didge wrote:

I think theyre called re-cycle... Apparently they dont have alot of bikes and generally a bit expensive...

They are very overpriced, trying to knock out a Halfords special Apollo with plastic brake levers for about £80. They also attach anything that fits to make a bike complete. There are racing frames which have had BMX bars thrown onto them seemingly just to get them into stock. I imagine that the brakes won't match the levers, so are potentially dangerous.

I looked there hoping to get something for the missus to try out, but the assistant spent the whole conversation with his headphones in, constantly checking his mobile. I won't bother going back.

oscarbudgie

I think the market for cheap full sussers is from people who prefer to ride on the pavement, having first mounted the kerb at a 90 degree angle.

Stuey01

oscarbudgie wrote:

I think the market for cheap full sussers is from people who prefer to ride on the pavement, having first mounted the kerb at a 90 degree angle.

That's what I used my £2k plus one for. you gotta have the right tool for the job.

DonDaddyD

sarajoy wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

sarajoy wrote:

I'm still not sure I agree that a racer will be best for everyone.

You're right it isn't. Someone with bad knees may struggle to push the large gearing. Someone with a bad back may find the riding position too painful. There is always going to be exceptions. Hell, some might simply not like the look of them.

Well, indeed! Is that so bad?

Yes!

DonDaddyD wrote:

why have we had waves of people preferring mountain bike style things, and now this middle ground of hybrids?

Cheaper to develop, produce, manufactuer and ultimately sell. On average a hybrid/mountain bike costs less than the equivilent road bike.

I dunno, I think it's been established that people reckon they want full suss MTBs, so that's where the cheapo brands have decided to concentrate - meaning we have lots of naaaasty full suss mountainbikes and heavy hybrids kicking around. A proper full susser (i.e. not made of cheese) would be about a grand, right? A proper road bike starts at £500 or so, it seems. The market's all askew.

I think you're missing the point. In terms of commuting road bike's tend to be more expensive than most if not all hybrids and most mountain bike.

Personally the only trend or rationale of why there are more hybrid/mountain bikes on the roads in cities than road bikes is marketing.

DonDaddyD wrote:

Try as many bikes as you can, but get what'll make you happy. You /may/ change your mind down the line. So what?

I disagree, doing the above implies that the bike isn't a long term purchase and it could/should be.

Maybe not, but if you pass it on it will get continued use. My old shopper is now on "long term loan" (meh, I've given it her) to a good mate's girlfriend. You could sell your old M2 on to an aspiring beginner, and they in turn will feel grateful to have cut their teeth on something they felt comfortable with but not spent tons of money on, and will feel free to graduate upwards in their own time.

But that isn't really taking on board the point I'm making. The bike that will make me happy is the one I know I'll have for years combined with the one that best meets my intended use. There is no point in getting a hybrid if a year later I'm going to want a road bike for to do the same journey on.

sarajoy

I just don't want to alienate new posters here, that's all.

I'm incredibly happy with what I've got. Am I so unusual? I don't think I've bought something so inherently wrong.

The vast majority of people will be happier to get going on something familiar that makes them feel comfortable, if only to begin with.

Maybe we should advise buying very cheap or 2nd hand hybrids (yes, if they must) first, and then consider going to get a decent road bike when they're ready - rather than looking for a cheapo road bike. Sourcing a 2nd hand roadie that fits and then getting down to a bike shop to sort out fitting etc may just be enough to put someone off.

biondino

lardboy wrote:

the assistant spent the whole conversation with his headphones in, constantly checking his mobile.

Funny how the people with such apparently urgent social lives always seem to be the ones with no social skills...

DonDaddyD

sarajoy wrote:

I just don't want to alienate new posters here, that's all.

I'm incredibly happy with what I've got. Am I so unusual? I don't think I've bought something so inherently wrong.

Jaysus, I feel like getting out my violin! Ha!

The vast majority of people will be happier to get going on something familiar that makes them feel comfortable, if only to begin with.[

Maybe we should advise buying very cheap or 2nd hand hybrids (yes, if they must) first, and then consider going to get a decent road bike when they're ready - rather than looking for a cheapo road bike. Sourcing a 2nd hand roadie that fits and then getting down to a bike shop to sort out fitting etc may just be enough to put someone off.

Sara, you bought a flat bar road bike, despite recommendations to by a drop handle bar bike. About a month - 2 months later you complained about hand cramp and then bought bar ends. That problem would never have occured if you had drop bars. That said there is nothing wrong with your hybrid with or without the bar ends.

But ultiamately I'm not going to recommend to people hybrids because I think they'll be happier with something they feel familiar with. That's what shops like Evans do to clinch the sale. I'm going to recommend a best bike for the usuage described and based on the persons ability to ride a bike.

Hybrid = light trail/road
Road bike = road
Mountain Bike = off road
CX = perverts

biondino

DonDaddyD wrote:

Sarajoy wrote:

The vast majority of people will be happier to get going on something familiar that makes them feel comfortable, if only to begin with.

Maybe we should advise buying very cheap or 2nd hand hybrids (yes, if they must) first, and then consider going to get a decent road bike when they're ready - rather than looking for a cheapo road bike. Sourcing a 2nd hand roadie that fits and then getting down to a bike shop to sort out fitting etc may just be enough to put someone off.

Sara, you bought a flat bar road bike, despite recommendations to by a drop handle bar bike. About a month - 2 months later you complained about hand cramp and then bought bar ends. That problem would never have occured if you had drop bars. That said there is nothing wrong with your hybrid with or without the bar ends.

But ultiamately I'm not going to recommend to people hybrids because I think they'll be happier with something they feel familiar with. That's what shops like Evans do to clinch the sale. I'm going to recommend a best bike for the usuage described and based on the persons ability to ride a bike.

Hybrid = light trail/road
Road bike = road
Mountain Bike = off road
CX = perverts

+1 that man!

rally200

OP you get one of these http://s233299868.e-shop.info/shop/article_07%252F08.crs.4.004/Giant-2007_08-CRS-4.0-(free-gift).html new for under £200

Giant CRS - sturdy, but at about 26lb no lightweight (but in london not too important) , a bit less sit up & beg than some hybrids, basic finishing kit but it will be safe and won't fall apart like a supermarket special. 7 speeds and fixed position means it won't be much fun for your run to the coast. 7 speeds also means cheap to maintain (i.e new gear clusters & chains) & nobody will want to nick it.

I fell bought an allegedly "high end" CRS (i.e. racing saddle, long stem, innappropriate "racy wheels" , before buying a road bike 2 years later - that said the CRS still gets regular use as a wet weather, load carrier (bonus is I don't have to ugly up the road bike with racks etc). I certianly appreciate the wide tyres in ice & snow.

How's that for balance - I should be on the BBC

The Chingford Skinhead

Contrary to the rewriting of history by the road bike cult later in the thread, the hybrid / road bike row was not started by hybrid lovers rubbishing road bikes. The original poster asked for advice on a “decent” hybrid. Rather than provide that advice he got a couple of posts asking why a hybrid and asking him if he’d considered Jesus …er sorry, I mean a road bike.

There are a considerable number roadies who take the road bike good everything else bad approach. Any hybrid is considered to be an Argos special despite their being an incredible range of hybrid bikes and many of them very good. The problem is that the road bike obsession is almost cultish in its insistence. Given that there is a whole area of the website given over to road bikes I don’t understand why they insist on monopolising the commuting forum and trying to brainwash anyone who is new and who asks for advice.

Hybrids are not a compromise or a marketing ploy. Calling “racing” bikes “road” bikes is the great marketing ploy of recent years. As for compromise – decent hybrids are what were once called town bikes and a direct descendent from the utilitarian safety cycle. They are designed to cope with roads but also rougher terrain and accommodate mudguards and racks. Racing bikes compromised the comfort and utility for speed – many don’t have the fittings or space for mudguards or racks. Mountain bikes compromised on speed for the ability to take on really rough terrain.

Lots of people love their racing bikes. Fair enough. But, contrary to popular belief, lots of people love their hybrids too. If someone came on here and asked about a road bike I wouldn’t ask if he’d considered a hybrid (I’d direct him/her to the road bike forum!). So perhaps the next time someone says they’d like a decent hybrid and have tried and not liked a road bike the members of the road bike cult could just bite their tongues or venture over to the various road bike sections on this site where they’d be able to converse with people who share their obsession.

rally200

The Chingford Skinhead wrote:

Rather than provide that advice he got a couple of posts asking why a hybrid and asking him if he’d considered Jesus …" .

I'm glad you raised this issue, I was wanting to talk to you all about Jehovah.

see your point - it does sometimes seem that "Commuting General " could be renamed "London Roadies" - but as with the God botherers on your doorstep, the Road bike evangelism is done with the best of intentions - spread the Joy.

rolf_f

"DonDaddyD wrote:

I think you're missing the point. In terms of commuting road bike's tend to be more expensive than most if not all hybrids and most mountain bike.

That really isn't true when it comes to mountain bikes. The range of prices, recommended entry levels for MTBs etc are really pretty much similar, if not higher than road bikes. True, MTBs perhaps top out a bit sooner - you'd struggle to pay more than 8k for one but, as with road bikes, serious entry levels start about 500, desirables about 1k and drooling from about 2k.

Besides, you shouldn't say things like "hybrid/mtb" - you wouldn't like MTBers to talk about "hybrid/road bikes" now would you?

jedster

I think the opinions on this thread are ridiculously polarised.

At one level the difference between a road-derived hybrid and a road bike is flats rather than drops and perhaps bigger clearances and and mounts.

Now in my opinion (someone who rides both drops and flat bars every day), drops have advantages on longer rides, pushing the speed upto 20mph or into headwinds. Flats are somewhat better in traffic and give better control on loose surfaces (say gravelly trails). But the differences are not enormous - people cycle huge distances on flat bars (think of all the adventure touring bikes) albeit speed is probably not a huge issue for them.

Now, given what the OP says he plans to use the bike for, I would personally prefer drops but I don't think flats are an awful choice, particularly if he is not going to push the pace on the longer rides. If i was really going to own only one bike then I might well buy a hybrid (although I'd probably go for a CX in the end).

J

biondino

The Chingford Skinhead wrote:

Contrary to the rewriting of history by the road bike cult later in the thread, the hybrid / road bike row was not started by hybrid lovers rubbishing road bikes. The original poster asked for advice on a “decent” hybrid. Rather than provide that advice he got a couple of posts asking why a hybrid and asking him if he’d considered Jesus …er sorry, I mean a road bike.

There are a considerable number roadies who take the road bike good everything else bad approach. Any hybrid is considered to be an Argos special despite their being an incredible range of hybrid bikes and many of them very good. The problem is that the road bike obsession is almost cultish in its insistence. Given that there is a whole area of the website given over to road bikes I don’t understand why they insist on monopolising the commuting forum and trying to brainwash anyone who is new and who asks for advice.

Hybrids are not a compromise or a marketing ploy. Calling “racing” bikes “road” bikes is the great marketing ploy of recent years. As for compromise – decent hybrids are what were once called town bikes and a direct descendent from the utilitarian safety cycle. They are designed to cope with roads but also rougher terrain and accommodate mudguards and racks. Racing bikes compromised the comfort and utility for speed – many don’t have the fittings or space for mudguards or racks. Mountain bikes compromised on speed for the ability to take on really rough terrain.

Lots of people love their racing bikes. Fair enough. But, contrary to popular belief, lots of people love their hybrids too. If someone came on here and asked about a road bike I wouldn’t ask if he’d considered a hybrid (I’d direct him/her to the road bike forum!). So perhaps the next time someone says they’d like a decent hybrid and have tried and not liked a road bike the members of the road bike cult could just bite their tongues or venture over to the various road bike sections on this site where they’d be able to converse with people who share their obsession.

Good points, extremely well made. Though I disagree with people disparaging hybrids as Argos specials - I can't remember this happening but I'm sure it would only be the case when someone requests advice about very inexpensive models.

And the roadie-favouring crew do usually ask what else the poster intends to use the bike for, to be fair. If that use is commensurate with a road bike it would be irresponsible NOT to suggest one.

I agree with you about the marketing of "road" bikes, and chapeau for making the point, it's a very valid one. But I would argue the marketing of "hybrid" bikes is just as much a coup - "it's a hybrid! It can do anything! Scared of a racing bike? No mountains anywhere near you? Get a hybrid - it's the best of all worlds!".

I would also guess that a lot (most) of the people who come on here asking advice about hybrids don't really, truly have their heart set on a hybrid, but want advice on what will best suit them - their caution, plus the aforementioned marketing, pushes them initially in the direction of a hybrid. So often taking them at their word and responding as narrowly as you suggest would involve giving them advice that was often misleading or inappropriate.