Some advice on getting a first Hybrid - Opinions Please

biondino

The_didge wrote:

Ive been on a Roadie and didnt really feel confident on it....

This is absolutely fair enough, but how long did you ride it for?

After years and years riding a road bike, I bought a fixie, and after the first ride I was so petrified I didn't ride it again for 3 months (breaking my ribs in between didn't help, either). However, when the weather got nicer, I started taking it out for very short jaunts round my neighbourhood, and thanks to our friend LiT I gained a lot of confidence doing a couple of laps of Richmond Park. After about 100 miles I was confident enough to commute through central London on it. I'm SO glad I persisted as it's an excellent alternative cycling experience.

DonDaddyD

I own a front suspension bike, Giant M2 (Hybrid with disc brakes), 2 road bikes and a Single speed.

Out of all my test rides I'd argue that my Giant M2 has been immediately the most comfortable. But it would be, it was like sitting in a chair. However, sitting in a chair in one position for more than 30mins will become uncomfortable. A Hybrid and its static riding position is like sitting in a chair in position for a disignated period of time.

Riding all the bikes on long rides and on my 7 mile commute to work my road bikes are by far the most comfortable.

During test rides most - including myself - don't consider what it will be like riding the test bike for long periods of time, over harsh surfaces, up steep hills and at a speed faster than you are likely to be riding the test bike at.

Over longer periods of cycling a road bike's drop bars is more comfortable than a flat bar becuase the drops allow you to rotate your shoulders and reposition your back. Drop bars enable you to move the muscles in your upper body, whereas a flat bar has your upper body locked in one position and that can lead to cramp - I'm talking from experience.

On short distance rides a hybrid is fine. But so is a road bike. On longer distance rides whether slow or fast a well fitted road bike will be supremely comfortable.

oscarbudgie

The_didge wrote:

OOOOKKKKK.....

I think i may have started something here that i wish i didnt.

I will start off with a Hybrid, as it seems a bit more relaxed, in a few months ill borrow a friends roadie and compare how it all goes.

P

Any threads that mention hybrids seem to go in this direction from what I've seen - the roadies come rushing out like platelets to a wound to tell you to get a road bike. I ride a road bike myself but try and resist the mantra of 'road bike good anything else bad' which you hear a lot. If speed and covering lots of miles are your priority then of course you need a road bike. If comfort is then a hybrid will be fine - put some bar ends on if you want to move your hands. If you want the flexibility to take to a canal path or any light offroad excursion etc you need a hybrid. And yes disc brakes do stop better than pads (obviously). All my opinion off course (I have ridden both extensively) but at the very least I don't think the issue is a cut and dried as some would have you believe...

DonDaddyD

oscarbudgie wrote:

The_didge wrote:

OOOOKKKKK.....

I think i may have started something here that i wish i didnt.

I will start off with a Hybrid, as it seems a bit more relaxed, in a few months ill borrow a friends roadie and compare how it all goes.

P

Any threads that mention hybrids seem to go in this direction from what I've seen - the roadies come rushing out like platelets to a wound to tell you to get a road bike. I ride a road bike myself but try and resist the mantra of 'road bike good anything else bad' which you hear a lot. If speed and covering lots of miles are your priority then of course you need a road bike. If comfort is then a hybrid will be fine - put some bar ends on if you want to move your hands. If you want the flexibility to take to a canal path or any light offroad excursion etc you need a hybrid. And yes disc brakes do stop better than pads (obviously). All my opinion off course (I have ridden both extensively) but at the very least I don't think the issue is a cut and dried as some would have you believe...

I find that there is a mantra of 'shoot down the road bike recommendations' regardless of what description of bike usuage the person gives.

In this instance the OP wrote this:

I will be doing 30 miles per day in London as well as the occasional ride to a coast or something so the bike needs to be fairly comfortable.

As a person who owns both a road bike and 26 inch wheel hybrid with disc brakes (much like the OP is considering) . In terms of performance and comfort I know which one I would prefer to use given the OP's suggested usuage.

I don't think its poor advice (in fact I think its good advice) to recommend a road bike. That is to say there is nothing wrong with using a hybrid, I just know from experience that I get on better with a road bike over longer distances on the road.

UndercoverElephant

I usually stay out of these, but here's my 2p.

Road bikes are the best thing for the open road, covering long distances where you don't often have to slow down or make tight manoeuvres. They are fast and light and the miles will go by quickly. For your trips to the coast, this will be ideal. Think of them as a nice Grand touring car, they range from a nice, comfortable Aston Martin, for example, to an all-out F1 car.

Hybrid bikes take a little bit of this, and in some cases quite a lot, but they also have better steering, manoeuvrability and breaking. They range from, say a Fiat Panda, to a Ford Focus ST, and are what you want for the city.

Now, if I drove all my time in the city, I wouldn't think a Ferrari was the best car for me, if I was doing miles upon mile of open road, a Fiat Panda would be too slow to enjoy.

I'm in an odd situation, my commute is about 70% open road, and 30% town/city, I'm not sure what fits that best, but it will probably be somewhere between the two.

Eau Rouge

oscarbudgie wrote:

And yes disc brakes do stop better than pads (obviously).

I don't think thats obvious.
To stop the bike in an emergency (anything less and you don't need better brakes, just to brake harder) you use as much front brake as you can to cause the rear wheel to just start coming light but ideally not slipping, and certainly not flying into the air and sending you over the handlebars. A "stoppie" being an extreme example. Since the rear wheel isn't fully in contact with the road, it's brake isn't of any use in an emergenvy. You can't brake any harder than that, or you go over the bars, regardless of your brake system

Roadie brakes can do that. Anything more is just extra weight to lug up hills. Wider tyres allow more force to be applied before you risk going over the bars, so you can use more powerfull brakes and actually see a benefit, but thats due to the tyres, not the brakes. Road bieks that take wider then 28mm tyres (such as tourers or cyclocross bikes) often have these more powerfull brakes, for example, They offer no advantage on 23mm tyres.

Things change a little in the wet, but roadie brakes will still work, and you would be amazed how rarely in the South East it actually rains enough for wet rims to be an issue, and again, it more about your tyres than your braking system, Wider tyres allowing more braking force will stop better in the wet than thin tyres that limit the braking force before they start to lock,
Where other braking systems leave road brakes behind is in mud. Mud sticks, and quickly clogs up the narrow gaps in road brakes and seriously effects their stopping power.
Thats where canti brakes or discs really excell, in lots of mud.
Unless you plan to cycle through lots and lots of mud though, road brakes are as effective as anything, and lighter.

daviesee

The_didge wrote:

I see that alot of people prefer a roadie to a hybrid...

I will eventually get two bikes, i know that but i cant justify getting a bike that will only do one thing for now.

What does a roadie offer more than a hybrid?

Im not looking for a hardcore bike that will allow me to do 200mph and fly.... Yet!
I just want something to get back into cycling

Hi,

Been there, done that.
You won't want to hear it but the hybrid will be a waste of money.
Now, before you start spitting feathers hear me out as I have already been down this route with a very nice Marin.

The hybrid is a compromise. It is better than a road bike off road but that doesn't mean it is good off road. It is better than a mtb on the road (by a huge margin) but it will never be as good as a road bike.

By your own admission, you know this and accept that you will get a road bike sooner or later. Make it sooner. For the useage you specify you will be much happier in the long run with the road bike. Get a mtb later when you can afford it.

I thought I could save money by getting a hybrid.
Instead of buying 2 bikes I eventually bought 3 (hybrid, mtb, road in that order).

Only trying to help you based on my experience

Underscore

Why will no-one answer the guy's question? He's said that he will try a road bike but would still like advice on a hybrid.

FWIW, I have been very happy with my Spesh Sirrus, and I know that many on here have one and like them too. However, if you can live with the service at Halfords, the Boardman hybrids look pretty good for the money.

However, you may have already spotted that your £200 budget may result in compromises - indeed the 3 bikes you link to in your post are all listed at more than double your budget. Of those three, I'd steer clear of the Giant purely because it has 26" wheels. For you sort of riding, I would suggest sticking to 700c wheel. If you can stretch to £300, then something like the Carrera Gryphon might be work considering?

TBH, at your price point, looking for something second-hand might be the best option.

HTH,

_

DonDaddyD

To the OP

You can go for a Giant R1 its basically a M1 with 700c wheels and then you'd have what is a really damn good Hybrid and based on the award winning XTC frame arguably better than all the other hybrid bikes you've listed.

(Still would go Road bike though).

oscarbudgie

Nice analogies!
It does seem that when someone says 'what hybrid?' the inevitable response is ' you don't need a hybrid you ned a road bike'. That's fine and often I'd agree, but not always. There is a strong following for road bikes on this forum but I reckon I see maybe 10 hybrids/mtb's/bso's/ss's for every one road bike heading into London in the morning. I think the advice is good but should be remembered that its advice often given by cycle enthusiasts who commute rather than cycle commuters. Most commuters roll along perfectly happily and not on a road bike.

roger_merriman

there is difference between emergency braking (granny/white van man/ what ever) jumps out and all you can do is grab the brakes of which the front will do most if not of the work if it's dry and grippy then tires will make little odds as you will beable to brake to the tipping point, ie any more and you'll endo.

in places where you know you'll need to brake one can shift ones weight back and get a lot more weight over the rear and make it do some work.

for the latter partically if at high speeds or off road etc disks are simply amazing. for the first as long as the front brake can bring you to tipping point any thing will do. 40/50 year old clunker brakes normally can do that.

so around town roadie brakes feel fine powerful even, though like any rim brakes they do tend to suffer once it's wet.

sarajoy

The thing about great brakes is that you couldn't ever use the full power of the instant-stop because you can't stop yourself as fast as you can the bike, so you have to apply steadily increasing pressure to discs anyway so that your body has time to slow with the bike.

(I realise some people are really good and can shift their weight in an appropriate manner to quell the 'stoppie' and stop super-fast with their disc brakes)

My V brakes are pretty good, I did lift my back wheel the other day stopping for a surprising pedestrian. I almost prefer the panic reaction of just grabbing the brakes as hard as possible as I think if I had to apply gentler pressure I'd just get flipped over the front when surprised! Any of you ever tried left-foot braking in a car? A bit like that. You kiss the windscreen as your clutch foot is so used to slamming down!


As for the two perceived big reactions on this forum - pro and anti-roadie - I think they both think the other will drown them out so responses get rather pointed!

Roadies love their bikes. I imagine it feels really good to have a nice machine like that, I'd certainly like one if I could own more than the one bike - I'd put knobblier tyres on my current fast hybrid and then use the racer on roads.

BUT because I can only afford the one bicycle, I have indeed compromised on its pure road performance, and yes I did wuss out and go for flat-bars with the kind of brakes and shifters which felt most familiar to me.

I am REALLY happy with my choice. It's quite amazing how much more efficient in terms of pedalling effort mine is compared to my bloke's great big 700C hybrid (some gary fischer thing with front suss) and especially compared to my workmate's carrera subway (MTB size and shape, slickish widish tyres) - as I can tell when riding with them and the amount of time I spend free-wheeling in comparison to them.

One day, when I have some more money and maybe a shed or garage, I might consider another bike.

OR maybe I'd go for a hybrid in another sense, and get a cyclocross bike. They're a bit odd, them. But intriguing...

biondino

I think it's got to be secondhand really - the only proviso is if OP isn't confident in his bike knowledge, he may be sold a pup or feel pressured to buy the wrong thing.

Underscore, one of the biggest areas of advice on a hybrid is in comparison with other forms of riding! If he'd come in here asking for advice on what Spacehopper to commute on, don't you think people might suggest politely that maybe a bike would be better? Same thing (sort of ).

The_didge

Underscore wrote:

TBH, at your price point, looking for something second-hand might be the best option.

Thats exactly what im looking for. All the bikes that i linked above ive found good used ones within my budget.

I would now also like to add to the list :

Chris Boardman Team Hybrid Bike

Trek SOHO-1

Specialized Sirrus Comp or Sport

Can people please give opinions on the 6 bikes i have listed. I know lots of people think i should get a roadie, and this evening i will try to borrow both a roadie and a hybrid for a good 30 mins through london. Once i have ridden both then i will decide what to go for. In the mean time i am leaning more towards a hybrid.

Thanks

biondino

Don't borrow a 3 grand carbon beauty, though, otherwise whatever you end up getting is going to feel very, very disappointing

UndercoverElephant

biondino wrote:

Don't borrow a 3 grand carbon beauty, though, otherwise whatever you end up getting is going to feel very, very disappointing

Seriously, how much would you have to trust someone? I suspect you can take it from their cold, dead arse cheeks.

sarajoy

The_didge wrote:

Specialized Sirrus Comp or Sport

Can people please give opinions on the 6 bikes i have listed.

As I have the "girly" version of this, I recommend them, and had them recommended to me

I went for the Sport version purely to avoid the grip-shift gear changers on the basic model. Hate them fings. I imagine the Comp (I test-rode a Vita Comp) would feel a bit lighter, have slightly posher components, and /might/ be a bit more comfortable if they've shoved carbon down the forks to quell some road-buzz.

The_didge

lol, no i was going to borrow a very nice Dolan Fixed Roadie, but it got knicked on friday If anyone sees it Stop the person on it. Its all glaoss black with just Red Dolan on it, Red Anodised Wheels and Red Grips

I have avaliable to me a 10 yr old roadie, unsure of make, and a Claude Butler Mercury.

I will try both and see..

oscarbudgie

Where are you looking? I just had a quick look at completed listings on Ebay - plenty of used Sirrus Sports and the odd Elite as well as Giant FCR's for under £200, Boardman's seem to be coming in at about £280 minimum for the Comp. I think Scott do a nice light hybrid too, either a Speedster or a Sportster I can't remember which.

roger_merriman

sarajoy wrote:

The_didge wrote:

Specialized Sirrus Comp or Sport

Can people please give opinions on the 6 bikes i have listed.

As I have the "girly" version of this, I recommend them, and had them recommended to me

I went for the Sport version purely to avoid the grip-shift gear changers on the basic model. Hate them fings. I imagine the Comp (I test-rode a Vita Comp) would feel a bit lighter, have slightly posher components, and /might/ be a bit more comfortable if they've shoved carbon down the forks to quell some road-buzz.

i think the lady who was trying out the club run last sunday had one, or rather a roadie version, though she was rather taken by a pink bike going up box hill.....

meanwhile

roger merriman wrote:

there is difference between emergency braking (granny/white van man/ what ever) jumps out and all you can do is grab the brakes of which the front will do most if not of the work if it's dry and grippy then tires will make little odds as you will beable to brake to the tipping point, ie any more and you'll endo.

Yep. Yet another road bike consumer who doesn't know how to brake: endoing even a disk brake with fat slicks is practically impossibile on the level - as long as you use correct technique and have your ass on the saddle. Read Sheldon Brown's article on emergency braking.

in places where you know you'll need to brake one can shift ones weight back and get a lot more weight over the rear and make it do some work.

Moving your weight back on the level makes virtually no difference.

for the latter partically if at high speeds or off road etc disks are simply amazing. for the first as long as the front brake can bring you to tipping point any thing will do. 40/50 year old clunker brakes normally can do that.

As long as it is dry, which it often is not. And of course accidents happen more in the wet.

DonDaddyD

I have cantilever brakes, caliper brakes and disc brakes.

All brakes work fine for me when commuting in London (regardless of traffic). For me, rule 1 of braking is anticipation. You should be riding in a way that helps prevent encountering emergency situations, with braking sharply as an option of last resort... It shouldn't be a main reason you buy a bike for commuting.

All my brakes have stopped each of my bikes in emergency situations just fine. Yes my disc brakes are the most powerful but once you're used to your brakes and have a measure of braking distances the need for absolute braking power is mooted by forward planinng, sensible riding and anticipation.

Disc brakes don't make you more safe when commuting IMO.

Edit:

Moving your weight back on the level makes virtually no difference.

Utter rbbish. Moving your weight to the back makes no difference to what!?! Moving your weight forward (on top of or over the handle bars) and being flung over the bars with the forward momentum of having to stop so suddenly... :roll:

I think you need to read up on some physics, specifically forward momentum and energy displacement.

Greg T

DonDaddyD wrote:

For me, rule 1 of braking is anticipation

What he said.

If you don't give yourself reaction time + braking room you can't grumble when you shunt.

Situational awareness is 90% of the game. having stoppers is 5% and the other 15% is just bad maths.

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

I have cantilever brakes, caliper brakes and disc brakes.

All brakes work fine for me when commuting in heavy traffic in London. For me, rule 1 of braking is anticipation, you shouldn't have to rely emergency braking as your means of stopping unless your in an emergency (well duh.... :roll: ). You should be riding in a way that helps prevent encountering such situations, with braking sharply as an opition of last resort...

All my brakes have stopped each of my bikes in emergency situations just fine. Yes my disc brakes are the most powerful but once you're used to your brakes and have a measure of braking distances the need for absolute braking power is mooted by forward planinng, sensible riding and anticipation.

Disc brakes don't make you more safe when commuting IMO.

Edit:

Moving your weight back on the level makes virtually no difference.

Utter rbbish. Moving your weight to the back makes no difference to what!?! Moving your weight forward (on top of or over the handle bars) and being flung over the bars with the forward momentum of having to stop so suddenly... :roll:

I think you need to read up on some physics, specifically forward momentum and energy displacement.

DNFTT, DDD. :roll:

Problem is, a lot of the more regular posters on here, myself included, don't really know a lot about hybrids because we've all taken the plunge or learnt the expensive way that if you're riding on the road road bikes are the way forward.

Some of what can be perceived as over-zealous road bike promotion is us trying to stop people making the same expensive decision we made before we saw the light!

il_principe

Some advice on getting a first hybrid - well your first'll most likely be your last.

Stuey01

You won't get much road bike at £200, if that is your upper budget then you're probably right to consider a hybrid. I'd be looking for 700c wheels rather than 26", skinny slick tyres, rim brakes (discs add needless expense), MTB spd pedals (or flats to begin with)

I recently made the switch from roadified MTB to road bike, took me about two days of commuting through the city to fully adjust to the different handling characteristics, which are only really evident at slow speed i.e. weaving through a traffic jam.

Re: braking performance - I have 4pot caliper hydraulic disc brakes with braided hoses and 203mm rotors on my MTB and even in comparison with that I can honestly that I have not found the dual pivot calipers on my roadie to be wanting, especially if I am in the drops and have full leverage. I wouldn't have believed it until I tried it for myself, but there you go. In the wet, different story, but on both bikes the traction of the tyres is usually the limiting factor here.

I don't get the logic that says a roadie isn't suited to city riding, or at least commuting. On my commute into and out of London I spend much of it cruising at upwards of 20mph - MUCH easier on a roadie than a hybrid. On the occasions when I do get snarled up in traffic I find no disadvantage to being on the roadie, as said it took about two days to get used to it. I'd stick with MTB spd pedals in town though for the ease of getting clipped in when setting off from the lights. If I spent all day riding through gridlock traffic weaving in and out of cars ala a messenger then I'd probably be on a different type of bike, but I'm not and neither is the OP.

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

Some advice on getting a first hybrid - well your first'll most likely be your last.

+1!!!

DNFTT, DDD.

Sorry.

Problem is, a lot of the more regular posters on here, myself included, don't really know a lot about hybrids because we've all taken the plunge or learnt the expensive way that if you're riding on the road road bikes are the way forward.

Some of what can be perceived as over-zealous road bike promotion is us trying to stop people making the same expensive decision we made before we saw the light!

+1.

This is why I like DeVer. I went in there and they asked what I will be using the bike for, I explained and they said road bike. I didn't then try and argue that hybrid's were better....

sarajoy

I'm still not sure I agree that a racer will be best for everyone.

If that was the case, why didn't the racer bike boom of the 70s stick around forever, why have we had waves of people preferring mountain bike style things, and now this middle ground of hybrids?

I was in Oxford early this week. Bikes EVERYWHERE - no wonder there's such a high theft rate there - but I bet it's not very high per-capita of bike users. Most of them were only locked to themselves, nothing else - and then only with some wire loop thing which would be no match for a pair of nail cutters.

ANYWAY - I mean, there were allsorts. Every single brand and type of bike imaginable. And I daresay their riders were happy.

OK so most are students and so will just take what they can get, but it was interesting.

Try as many bikes as you can, but get what'll make you happy. You /may/ change your mind down the line. So what? We're talking a couple of hundred here, not thousand. And if that's money you're scared to part with, go 2nd hand and the resale value won't change much either.

il_principe

sarajoy wrote:

I'm still not sure I agree that a racer will be best for everyone.

If that was the case, why didn't the racer bike boom of the 70s stick around forever, why have we had waves of people preferring mountain bike style things, and now this middle ground of hybrids?

Erm, fashion? Kinda like Fixed/SS is becoming "cool" now, MTB's were supercool in the 90's.

sarajoy wrote:

I was in Oxford early this week. Bikes EVERYWHERE - no wonder there's such a high theft rate there - but I bet it's not very high per-capita of bike users. Most of them were only locked to themselves, nothing else - and then only with some wire loop thing which would be no match for a pair of nail cutters.

ANYWAY - I mean, there were allsorts. Every single brand and type of bike imaginable. And I daresay their riders were happy.

OK so most are students and so will just take what they can get, but it was interesting.

My bro went to fOx. You get the cheapest junker you can find 'cos if it doesn't get pinched (which it will) you're bound to get so drunk you'll forget where you locked it, permanently!

Stuey01

sarajoy wrote:

I was in Oxford early this week. Bikes EVERYWHERE - no wonder there's such a high theft rate there - but I bet it's not very high per-capita of bike users. Most of them were only locked to themselves, nothing else - and then only with some wire loop thing which would be no match for a pair of nail cutters.

ANYWAY - I mean, there were allsorts. Every single brand and type of bike imaginable. And I daresay their riders were happy.

Yeah but they are pootling around town, short journeys. Not a 30mile roundtrip commute and runs to the coast.

Different requirement = different solution.