LeMond talking about Armstrong circa 2002
Anyone seen this interview before? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... mond&dur=3
You have to jump to about the 45 minute mark for LeMond's interview. It's from 2002, when Lance was going for his 4th Tour.
What struck me was how he talked about Armstrong and cycling in general compared with the way he does nowadays. When did he adopt his anti-Lance, anti-pro cycling stance? Was it after Lance eclipsed his 3 wins? Or was he just being journalistically objective in this interview?
You have to jump to about the 45 minute mark for LeMond's interview. It's from 2002, when Lance was going for his 4th Tour.
What struck me was how he talked about Armstrong and cycling in general compared with the way he does nowadays. When did he adopt his anti-Lance, anti-pro cycling stance? Was it after Lance eclipsed his 3 wins? Or was he just being journalistically objective in this interview?
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He started speaking out more critically of Armstrong when LA retired and "the fight against doping(TM)" became a popular subject, probably figuring the coast was clear. Of course, Armstrong never stopped caring what people said about him and still had full traction at Trek, which manufactured Lemond bicycles under contract. Well, as could be foreseen, that contract was... remanipulated. So on top of Lemond's initial feelings about Armstrong, which he could well have been keeping to himself in this interview, the whole thing got a bit personal when Trek intervened. I wouldn't invite those two to the same party.
Personally, while I agree with most of Lemond's talking points, I can't help but be cynical about his personal motives for laying them at Armstrong's door alone. As if doping in sport was one man's work...0 -
drenkrom wrote:...... and still had full traction at Trek, which manufactured Lemond bicycles under contract. Well, as could be foreseen, that contract was... remanipulated.
Personally, while I agree with most of Lemond's talking points, I can't help but be cynical about his personal motives for laying them at Armstrong's door alone. As if doping in sport was one man's work...
Is it possible that Trek and Lemond had a falling out over Lemonds bad mouthing of cycling today, which, by the way Trek is heavily involved in. Maybe Lance sells more Treks than Greg sells Lemonds? Maybe it was a dying brand? I seem to recall that Lance is under contract to Trek and not the other way around. I doubt he will bite the hand that
feeds him, and feeds him well I might add. A lot of people seem to think he's some sort of all powerful ogre or demon but I have my doubts that he can pull just ANY string and have people jump. Most of the Lance detractors here make him out to be a whole lot more than he is. As for Trek, all they want to do is sell bikes and not be in the middle of some petty, hissy fit, cat fight, between two guys on their payroll. As for "....doping... one mans
work..." I couldn't agree more.0 -
It was about the same time he found out that Armstrong was a long-standing client of Michele Ferrari...Dedalus wrote:What struck me was how he talked about Armstrong and cycling in general compared with the way he does nowadays. When did he adopt his anti-Lance, anti-pro cycling stance? Was it after Lance eclipsed his 3 wins? Or was he just being journalistically objective in this interview?
cyclingnews.com
News for January 25, 1997
Armstrong's first race back
Lance Armstrong will have his first public appearance after his illness at the goodwill race "Race for Roses" in Austin, Texas, on March 23 (this was formerly to be held on February 16).
Doctors are the sorcerers of the peloton
The cycling doctors are the sorcerers of the peloton. Last year racing saw the team doctor as an important part of the team. The success of Italian cycling is also the success of the Italian doctor Conconi and his former righthand man Ferrari.
Anyway, that is said in the medical world. They are the top specialists of erythropoetine (EPO), the forbidden drug that the peleton is caught in the grip off.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/arch ... /25_1.html0 -
The Lemond brand is as good as dead, slaughtered by Trek who were apparently acting under the directions of Armstrong.dennisn wrote:Maybe Lance sells more Treks than Greg sells Lemonds?
The Wall Street Journal
10 June 2009
Feud Sends Cycling World Spinning
Eight-Year-Old Dispute Between Armstrong, LeMond Could Be Headed to a Courtroom
The battle between the two men has been playing out in federal district court in Minnesota, where Mr. LeMond is suing the bicycle maker Trek alleging breach of contract -- claiming, in part, that Mr. Armstrong was responsible for Trek's alleged neglect of Mr. LeMond's signature line of bikes.
...The Trek lawsuit, which was filed in the spring of last year, is essentially a contract dispute, but has been largely overshadowed by the feud. In court filings, Mr. LeMond levels some explosive charges, alleging that Mr. Armstrong paid off cycling officials to avoid positive drug tests and worked with a doctor known for his blood-doping expertise.
...The lawsuit's pre-trial discovery phase has widened recently, pulling in people closely related to Mr. Armstrong. Just last week Mr. LeMond's attorney subpoenaed Mr. Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin Armstrong, to testify about a dinner at which, the suit alleges, Mr. Armstrong said he would get Trek to go after Mr. LeMond. Ms. Armstrong's attorney says she has no knowledge of the case. Her attorney has submitted a motion to keep her from being deposed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124459634335000647.html0 -
aurelio wrote:
The Lemond brand is as good as dead, slaughtered by Trek who were apparently acting under the directions of Armstrong.dennisn wrote:Maybe Lance sells more Treks than Greg sells Lemonds?
The Wall Street Journal
10 June 2009
Feud Sends Cycling World Spinning
Eight-Year-Old Dispute Between Armstrong, LeMond Could Be Headed to a Courtroom
The battle between the two men has been playing out in federal district court in Minnesota, where Mr. LeMond is suing the bicycle maker Trek alleging breach of contract -- claiming, in part, that Mr. Armstrong was responsible for Trek's alleged neglect of Mr. LeMond's signature line of bikes.
...The Trek lawsuit, which was filed in the spring of last year, is essentially a contract dispute, but has been largely overshadowed by the feud. In court filings, Mr. LeMond levels some explosive charges, alleging that Mr. Armstrong paid off cycling officials to avoid positive drug tests and worked with a doctor known for his blood-doping expertise.
...The lawsuit's pre-trial discovery phase has widened recently, pulling in people closely related to Mr. Armstrong. Just last week Mr. LeMond's attorney subpoenaed Mr. Armstrong's ex-wife, Kristin Armstrong, to testify about a dinner at which, the suit alleges, Mr. Armstrong said he would get Trek to go after Mr. LeMond. Ms. Armstrong's attorney says she has no knowledge of the case. Her attorney has submitted a motion to keep her from being deposed
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124459634335000647.html
Well, guess we will find out what the law says, in any case. I still find it hard to believe that Trek would let either Armstrong or Lemond dictate to them. Not the best of business
ideas. Letting your employees tell you what to do. I think it's supposed to be the other way around. Although I'm reminded of a saying(I know, I always am) "What can happen
will". Should be interesting at the very least and probably not much good will come out of it for any of the three of them.0 -
dennisn wrote:Well, guess we will find out what the law says, in any case. I still find it hard to believe that Trek would let either Armstrong or Lemond dictate to them. Not the best of business
ideas.
Why? It's not hard to believe at all.
Lance is a huge name and having it associated with Trek was very important. If he fell out with them I would suspect other bike manufacturers would crawl through glass to sign him up.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:dennisn wrote:Well, guess we will find out what the law says, in any case. I still find it hard to believe that Trek would let either Armstrong or Lemond dictate to them. Not the best of business
ideas.
Why? It's not hard to believe at all.
Lance is a huge name and having it associated with Trek was very important. If he fell out with them I would suspect other bike manufacturers would crawl through glass to sign him up.
Nike runs a business too. With big name stars. I doubt that they would tolerate infighting
among their "stars". There is not a team of any kind out there, that if they want to do well,
that will put up with that kind of attitude. Star or not you will be gone. Maybe someone else will take a chance on them, maybe not. Never bite the hand that feeds you. Even if you think you're a "big shot".0 -
You really haven't got a clue, have you Dennis? Compared to the power and commercial value of 'The Armstrong brand', Trek are minnows and as such would do almost anything to continue to be associated with him. (And do you really think that he he is an 'employee' of Trek?).dennisn wrote:Nike runs a business too. With big name stars. I doubt that they would tolerate infighting among their "stars". There is not a team of any kind out there, that if they want to do well, that will put up with that kind of attitude. Star or not you will be gone.
US & Canada: Apple Polishes Off Google on Home Turf
Apple loses the battle for world dominance this year in our Global results but soundly beats Google at home. Similar to the Global contest, the two have shared top five distinction in the US & Canada results for the last four years.
Scooping third place, Starbucks continues to waft through our world. We asked readers to choose those brands that had the most impact on them in 2005; Starbucks is for many a daily ritual, made more noteworthy by the cost and experience of choosing this retailer over the corner street vendor.
Mega-retailer Target has been sinking since holding the first place position for 2001 and 2002, before falling to second position in 2003 and then third in 2004. In 2005, it queues up at fourth position. Unique among other national retailers in its focus on design, Target probably faces steep competition with the expansion of Ikea and Wal-Mart throughout the US.
American athlete and seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong brings up the tail of the top five brands. Armstrong joins craigslist and Whole Foods as new entrant notables who made the top ten for US & Canada brands.
http://designtaxi.com/news.jsp?id=1843& ... &year=2006
Apple, Google, Starbucks, Target and then Armstrong. Where do you think Trek would come in such a listing?0 -
aurelio wrote:
(And do you really think that he he is an 'employee' of Trek?).dennisn wrote:Nike runs a business too. With big name stars. I doubt that they would tolerate infighting among their "stars". There is not a team of any kind out there, that if they want to do well, that will put up with that kind of attitude. Star or not you will be gone.
Once again you make him out to be some super human villain, able to control the world.
I'm thinking that he puts his pants on one leg at a time. Just like you and I.
And yes, he is an "employee" of Trek. They pay him. Not the other way around. That's called an employee, not an employer. At least in my corner of the world. They dictate to him. He's a bike racer, not CEO of Trek.0 -
You might be surprised about who is, or has been in Armstrong's employ / pocket and he also has some very powerful 'friends'...dennisn wrote:Once again you make him out to be some super human villain, able to control the world.
A few days later, the chief operating officer of USA Cycling, the governing body responsible for punishing bike-racing drug cheaters in this country, was quoted in more than 100 newspapers dismissing the L'Equipe piece as the scandalmongering of a French tabloid newspaper, adding, in a remarkable echo of Armstrong's public position, that the positive drug results were unfair because they had been exposed by a news reporter, rather than through formal drug-policing protocols.
...Johnson, the widely quoted USA Cycling official, appears to suffer from a serious conflict of interest between his organization's role as a doping cop and his personal, institutional, and financial ties to the diversified business world surrounding Lance Armstrong. Financier Weisel is Armstrong's longtime patron, employer, investment manager, and friend. Weisel is also Johnson's longtime patron and friend and the founder of a nonprofit entity that employs him.
And then there's this little fact: Johnson essentially works for Armstrong. In addition to serving as chief operating officer of USA Cycling, Johnson is executive director of the USA Cycling Development Foundation, an affiliated nonprofit organization founded by Weisel, who serves as president of the board of directors, according to the foundation's most recently available IRS returns, filed in 2003. According to the foundation's current Web site, the board of directors now includes Lance Armstrong.
"This whole thing isn't a big deal for Americans," Reuters quoted Johnson as saying of Armstrong's doping troubles last week.
That may or may not be true. It's safe to say, however, that it's a very big deal for Johnson's bosses.
http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-09-07/news/tour-de-farce/1
In 2006, Mr. Armstrong embarked on an effort to overhaul professional cycling that, in some scenarios, would involve him owning a stake in cycling's most prestigious race. The race is owned by a family-run French company that says it has been approached by numerous entities looking to buy the race over the years. It says the Tour de France is not for sale.
According to his agent, Bill Stapleton, Mr. Armstrong has discussed the idea of buying the Tour with investors and remains interested in creating an organization that would run professional cycling and include the Tour.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1238111 ... 3043.html#0 -
As for that last paragraph, if that day ever happens, I'd bow out of professional cycling as a fan for good.0
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aurelio wrote:
You really haven't got a clue, have you Dennis? Compared to the power and commercial value of 'The Armstrong brand', Trek are minnows and as such would do almost anything to continue to be associated with him. (And do you really think that he he is an 'employee' of Trek?).dennisn wrote:Nike runs a business too. With big name stars. I doubt that they would tolerate infighting among their "stars". There is not a team of any kind out there, that if they want to do well, that will put up with that kind of attitude. Star or not you will be gone.
US & Canada: Apple Polishes Off Google on Home Turf
Apple loses the battle for world dominance this year in our Global results but soundly beats Google at home. Similar to the Global contest, the two have shared top five distinction in the US & Canada results for the last four years.
Scooping third place, Starbucks continues to waft through our world. We asked readers to choose those brands that had the most impact on them in 2005; Starbucks is for many a daily ritual, made more noteworthy by the cost and experience of choosing this retailer over the corner street vendor.
Mega-retailer Target has been sinking since holding the first place position for 2001 and 2002, before falling to second position in 2003 and then third in 2004. In 2005, it queues up at fourth position. Unique among other national retailers in its focus on design, Target probably faces steep competition with the expansion of Ikea and Wal-Mart throughout the US.
American athlete and seven-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong brings up the tail of the top five brands. Armstrong joins craigslist and Whole Foods as new entrant notables who made the top ten for US & Canada brands.
http://designtaxi.com/news.jsp?id=1843& ... &year=2006
Apple, Google, Starbucks, Target and then Armstrong. Where do you think Trek would come in such a listing?
I would ask you just which bike frame company is going to pay Lance MORE than Trek?
Maybe a French maker? How about Derosa? Or any of the Italian brands? Which one?
Don't you think Lance knows that he's at the top in endorsement money? At least for bikes. He's probably at the top of his revenue making ability as far as any cycling related products go. So who's left to pay him more? Oh, maybe a little bit here and there, but he's already got his picture all over pretty much everything. And there is such a thing as over
exposure. I'm sure it's only a matter of him switching brands if someone was capable
of paying what it took to get him and felt it would be worth it. Aren't we all whores and only haggling over the price?
I think a lot of people on this forum give him way to much "credit", so to speak, in his abilities to preform all of his, so called, devious acts, unscrupulous dealings, bullying,
etc., etc., maintain family and friends, make loads of personal appearances for cancer, and still be capable of winning the TDF. All this from a mere human? Not possible?
I'm sorry that you still believe in monsters. Must be awful, but usually they lurk about in the dark and in your closet. Not out in broad daylight.0 -
Probably Giant since they are the world's biggest producer of bikes?dennisn wrote:I would ask you just which bike frame company is going to pay Lance MORE than Trek?
Very true, he'd find it hard to do himself. But many in such a position has colleagues, agents, secretaries, lawyers, PR advisors, financial advisers, media handlers and more to do a lot of the work for them.dennisn wrote:preform all of his, so called, devious acts, unscrupulous dealings, bullying,
etc., etc., maintain family and friends, make loads of personal appearances for cancer, and still be capable of winning the TDF. All this from a mere human? Not possible?
Just one example but his past legal activitiy shows tha Armstrong has seperate legal advisors in Austin, Dallas, San Diego, New York, Delaware, London, Paris and Milan and that's just from a quick scan of his courtroom battles and announcements made on his behalf by legal representatives.
Armstrong is one man but he's also now a brand, a marketing phenomenon and there are significant financial interests behind this.0 -
Kléber wrote:
Probably Giant since they are the world's biggest producer of bikes?dennisn wrote:I would ask you just which bike frame company is going to pay Lance MORE than Trek?
Very true, he'd find it hard to do himself. But many in such a position has colleagues, agents, secretaries, lawyers, PR advisors, financial advisers, media handlers and more to do a lot of the work for them.dennisn wrote:preform all of his, so called, devious acts, unscrupulous dealings, bullying,
etc., etc., maintain family and friends, make loads of personal appearances for cancer, and still be capable of winning the TDF. All this from a mere human? Not possible?
Just one example but his past legal activitiy shows tha Armstrong has seperate legal advisors in Austin, Dallas, San Diego, New York, Delaware, London, Paris and Milan and that's just from a quick scan of his courtroom battles and announcements made on his behalf by legal representatives.
Armstrong is one man but he's also now a brand, a marketing phenomenon and there are significant financial interests behind this.
I'm not sure Giant would consider him a good "fit" for them. More a Euro brand you know.
Trek - Lance. As good as marketing gets. And anyway I thought Taiwan was the worlds largest bike maker.
I would agree that he has people doing his bidding. Most rich people do. Still he has to keep something of a hand in it all and that takes time too. For whatever reason I doubt that Lance really wants a bunch of bad publicity by going around bullying, etc. It's just
not good business. Although I'm sure that on occasion he gets p*ssed just like the rest of us and says things he regrets. Problem is it gets splattered all over the media. You and I getting p*ssed, on the other hand, doesn't make headlines. Otherwise we might get bad rep's, because the media sure doesn't seem interested in good news these days.0 -
dennisn wrote:. And anyway I thought Taiwan was the worlds largest bike maker.
Giant is a company, Taiwan is a country - a small but important distinction I'm sure you'll agree.\'You Come At the King,You Best Not Miss\'0 -
Croxted Avenger wrote:dennisn wrote:. And anyway I thought Taiwan was the worlds largest bike maker.
Giant is a company, Taiwan is a country - a small but important distinction I'm sure you'll agree.
It was, apparently, a bad attempt at a joke. I put the smiley / wink right next to it. Hoping to
call "joke" to peoples attention. or is it :twisted: :twisted: I get confused. 0 -
Apologies Dennis, I suppose I like a lot of other folk have difficulty distingushing you joke posts from your real ones
8)\'You Come At the King,You Best Not Miss\'0 -
Croxted Avenger wrote:Apologies Dennis, I suppose I like a lot of other folk have difficulty distingushing you joke posts from your real ones
8)
I can understand that. Sort of like riding - sometimes it's heaven, sometimes it's hell,
sometimes I don't even know. (willie nelson)0 -
This guy seems to be typical of the sort of people in Armstrong's employ...Kléber wrote:his past legal activitiy shows tha Armstrong has seperate legal advisors in Austin, Dallas, San Diego, New York, Delaware, London, Paris and Milan and that's just from a quick scan of his courtroom battles and announcements made on his behalf by legal representatives.
The Sunday Times
March 22, 2009
Publish and be slammed
The rich and famous are employing expensive new muscle to protect them: strong-arm lawyers who take no prisoners
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 931985.ece0 -
It shows...dennisn wrote:I get confused.0 -
Like this you mean?dennisn wrote:I'm sure that on occasion he gets p*ssed just like the rest of us and says things he regrets.
http://www.comcast.net
26 March 2009
Liquored-Up Lance Loses It on Plane
Ted Casablanca, eonline
Poor Lance Armstrong can't catch a break—well, aside from actually breaking his collarbone during a race in Spain, we mean.
After crashing during the run-up to his stunningly ambitious eighth Tour de France, Lance was on a flight from Madrid to Atlanta. And apparently the sometimes-womanizer took his self-pity out on the other passengers. Perhaps he knew how bad surgery was going to be, what with that steel plate and those 12 screws he'd just had implanted in his collarbone, which was busted in four spots?
Regardless, an A.T. reader on the flight with L.A. contacted us and described how unpleasant the 36-year-old cancer-surviving cyclist was:
"He was such an asshole," ranted our onboard babe. "He was so wasted on painkillers, and he drank a lot. It was just obnoxious."
So how much did he chug exactly? "Enough to be cut off," the witness told us. And that was in first class, where the booze flows freely until passengers usually cut themselves off, honeys.
After bitchin' for a while, Lancey, who had his arm in a sling, finally went to sleep, much to the flight attendants' and other passengers' joy.
http://www.comcast.net/articles/enterta ... 5/b106071/
(The link above is now dead. Perhaps Armstrong got his mate Keith Schilling onto the case).
P.s. being drunk on a flight carries a maximum 2-year jail sentence, and a quick look at Google will show you that plenty of people are prosecuted for this offence. Maybe being a 'celebrity' has its compensations after all...0 -
aurelio wrote:
Like this you mean?dennisn wrote:I'm sure that on occasion he gets p*ssed just like the rest of us and says things he regrets.
http://www.comcast.net
26 March 2009
Liquored-Up Lance Loses It on Plane
Ted Casablanca, eonline
I believe that one was proved to not be true at all.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
aurelio wrote:Proved to be untrue or simply denied by Armstrong / one of his army of lawyers? Do you have any links?
I don't keep a giant file of links, so I'll check the google.
Nothing to do with his lawyers though, AFAIK, it was comments from people on the same flight.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:aurelio wrote:
Like this you mean?dennisn wrote:I'm sure that on occasion he gets p*ssed just like the rest of us and says things he regrets.
http://www.comcast.net
26 March 2009
Liquored-Up Lance Loses It on Plane
Ted Casablanca, eonline
I believe that one was proved to not be true at all.
Ball in your court arelio.0 -
aurelio wrote:
Like this you mean?dennisn wrote:I'm sure that on occasion he gets p*ssed just like the rest of us and says things he regrets.
http://www.comcast.net
26 March 2009
Liquored-Up Lance Loses It on Plane
Ted Casablanca, eonline
Poor Lance Armstrong can't catch a break—well, aside from actually breaking his collarbone during a race in Spain, we mean.
After crashing during the run-up to his stunningly ambitious eighth Tour de France, Lance was on a flight from Madrid to Atlanta. And apparently the sometimes-womanizer took his self-pity out on the other passengers. Perhaps he knew how bad surgery was going to be, what with that steel plate and those 12 screws he'd just had implanted in his collarbone, which was busted in four spots?
Regardless, an A.T. reader on the flight with L.A. contacted us and described how unpleasant the 36-year-old cancer-surviving cyclist was:
"He was such an asshole," ranted our onboard babe. "He was so wasted on painkillers, and he drank a lot. It was just obnoxious."
So how much did he chug exactly? "Enough to be cut off," the witness told us. And that was in first class, where the booze flows freely until passengers usually cut themselves off, honeys.
After bitchin' for a while, Lancey, who had his arm in a sling, finally went to sleep, much to the flight attendants' and other passengers' joy.
http://www.comcast.net/articles/enterta ... 5/b106071/
(The link above is now dead. Perhaps Armstrong got his mate Keith Schilling onto the case).
P.s. being drunk on a flight carries a maximum 2-year jail sentence, and a quick look at Google will show you that plenty of people are prosecuted for this offence. Maybe being a 'celebrity' has its compensations after all...
Of course in training for the TDF so he gets tanked up.0 -
On the other hand he was obviously seriously pissed off about his crash and had fair reason to think that his plans to 'prepare' for the Tour were ruined.Gazzaputt wrote:Of course in training for the TDF so he gets tanked up.0 -
No, I served the ball. Iain is weighing up his return at this very moment.dennisn wrote:Ball in your court arelio.
(Unless you wish to try your hand of course. ). 0 -
There isn't much on it on t'internet. The original E! story is there and then there's thisone
Someone who claims to have been on the plane comments. But if you can accept a single anonymous comment from a flight attendant you would surely have to accept a comment on the internet with a name attached.
I think Dennis meant pissed in the American sense, ie, being angry. Like that time he spitefully handed out the email address of that bloke who baited him via email.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
