RLJ traps is soft touch policing
Comments
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dilemna wrote:Are you one of the 60%?
Around 60% of us are.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
Look, Balham high street heading towards Tooting isn't the most dangerous road in South London but it isn't without its crime: queue the old lady chasing a guy who had stolen her handbag/shopping down that very street. Where were the police then?
We are talking about the same stretch of road where a cyclist was stabbed in the chest after an altercation with some people in a car.
Sorry, but I don't see the link between these things happening and not addressing any other crimes, and if you don't mind my saying so that's a little bit Daily Mail. For the most part those things aren't happening, so should the Police stand around all day waiting for them to occur? Should the Police have attended andy83's burglary? After all, something more serious might have happened in the meantime.
If you don't think the Police should stand around ignoring crimes on the offchance a worse one happens (and I'm going to assume you don't) then you need to accept that sometimes small crimes will get addressed and some bigger ones might not.0 -
I can see both sides here.
Been thinking about the whole RLJ debate and this. Really IF you are going to RLJ, surely you're going to make sure the manouveur is safe, and you would spot a load of Police hanging about in Hi Viz and decide I won't skip this one. If you still RLJ, what do you expect?
OK, so there is an argument for better policing, but I really think theres an argument for consistency. So many times I see RLJers and look across to see Police in the area, or sitting in a squad car just turning a blind eye. So its ok to RLJ at all other times other than when they set a trap. Surely if they see a crime, they duty bound to do something about it?!?
The other week, I look up to see 2 x Cycle Police cycling across a pedrestrain crossing and island on Gracechurch and out onto the road. I didn't see them fine themselves :evil: Now what would their reaction have been had they seen a commutor doing the same thing???
PLEASE GIVE US CONSISTENCY!!!!
Loads of Police around junctions in the City yesterday. Was sat at a temporary traffic light on Fenchurch St, and just beside the lights were two City of London Police. One was dealing with a motorcycle courier (don't know why), but the other was looking at me, then strolled over. I thought, damn, no reflectors, or bell....come on really??? But he looked at my bike (Cotic Soul) and was like, "how does that ride, I was looking into getting one...". Had a nice little conversation til the light changed. More Policing like that please
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biondino wrote:Heavens, DDD. A one-day operation to discourage RLJing and you're reacting as if they've opened the prisons and given the sex offenders free passes to Alton Towers. It'd be good if Mithras could enlighten us about police procedure, but I imagine it's planned rather better than leaving police stations unmanned and 999 calls unanswered.
No, the point is that for the rest of the year they are never around trying to prevent proper crimes but on a day where they can exploit they are out in force. They need to be held to account for this.
I've seen more police officers in one day than I've seen in at least two months. This fact is bought home when I keep passing the yellow A boards that say "stabbing any witnesses" or "Murder at 2pm any witnesses" WTF were the police then, stopping RLJers?(I say that flippantly), yeah great resource use.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
MrChuck wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:
Look, Balham high street heading towards Tooting isn't the most dangerous road in South London but it isn't without its crime: queue the old lady chasing a guy who had stolen her handbag/shopping down that very street. Where were the police then?
We are talking about the same stretch of road where a cyclist was stabbed in the chest after an altercation with some people in a car.
Sorry, but I don't see the link between these things happening and not addressing any other crimes, and if you don't mind my saying so that's a little bit Daily Mail. For the most part those things aren't happening, so should the Police stand around all day waiting for them to occur? Should the Police have attended andy83's burglary? After all, something more serious might have happened in the meantime.
My point is that for the best part of the year and having seen crimes commited on that stretch of road and others, there has been a distinct lack of police presence until yesterday when they could make a little extra money.
What I'm saying is that they should be more concerned with having a police presence at all times than showing force on a day they knew they could exploit.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:biondino wrote:Heavens, DDD. A one-day operation to discourage RLJing and you're reacting as if they've opened the prisons and given the sex offenders free passes to Alton Towers. It'd be good if Mithras could enlighten us about police procedure, but I imagine it's planned rather better than leaving police stations unmanned and 999 calls unanswered.
No, the point is that for the rest of the year they are never around trying to prevent proper crimes but on a day where they can exploit they are out in force. They need to be held to account for this.
I've seen more police officers in one day than I've seen in at least two months. This fact is bought home when I keep passing the yellow A boards that say "stabbing any witnesses" or "Murder at 2pm any witnesses" WTF were the police then, stopping RLJers?(I say that flippantly), yeah great resource use.
if by exploit you mean there was a predicted wave of RLJ then yes. well why not. violent crime is not as common as the papers say, do you really think there are police to cover even that area of london? on the off chance of a crime?0 -
My experience with the coppers is that they are very reasonable - I have been stopped 3 times (all wrong way up one ways, all in the West End), and they have always been firm but fair and let me off with advice and a warning.Aidy wrote:I would argue that this could be achieved to a much better effect by warning them.
Fining new cyclists is either going to discourage or make them resentful.
Issuing a warning can be used to educate and inform, but of course this wouldn't be as financially rewarding.David
Engineered Bicycles0 -
DDD, give it a rest. Your arguments aren't even making sense any more. You can't treble the size of the police force overnight! And even if you could, having them out on the beat would mean that, unless a crime happens while they're standing there, their presence is going to be prophylactic at best. Remember, a beat bobby isn't investigating, isn't doing paperwork, isn't interviewing - he's just providing a presence.
Secondly, I'm not honestly sure I want streets full of policemen! I'm far from a "omg police state" person but it'd make me feel pretty uneasy!
You've lost this one. Time to start another controversial thread topic!0 -
LOL :roll:DonDaddyD wrote:Roastie wrote:So positive policing is addressing the issues you think are important.
So peoples personal safety on a daily basis isn't important?
Simply by making this comment you are making the huge assumption that RLJing does not endanger anybodys personal safety. Clearly not everybody shares this opinion.David
Engineered Bicycles0 -
My experience with the coppers is that they are very reasonable
Funny that, my experience is completely the opposite.if by exploit you mean there was a predicted wave of RLJ then yes. well why not. violent crime is not as common as the papers say, do you really think there are police to cover even that area of london? on the off chance of a crime?
I think this is very much a case of ignoring the papers too the point that you become disjointed from the reality and plight of a situation.
"Oh there wasn't really a War in Iraq, that's just what the papers say...." :roll:
Mate, as said in the other thread, I have lived in the areas I'm talking about, they desperately need more officers, everyday, walking around, being seen and letting their presence be felt. It's not good enough that I've seen more police officer's in one day trying to stop cyclists than I've seen in 6 months on a road and around an area that clearly needs more police officers serving day to day and not simply out on force on special occasions.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
To the majority of road users = car drivers they have to witness law breaking behaviour that if they did it would have them arrested and charged with an offence lots of times every day by cyclists.
If I was Plod charged with lowering crime and perceptions of crime I'd be bagging RLJing cyclists everyday of the week. There's a lot of it. Drivers will see the effect of it and I don't have to get my boots dirty shoeing some villain.
It's high visibility high volume law breaking and just screams out nick me.
Don't give me the personal safety line it don't wash.
if you want a clear run sit at the front in the middle of the lane.
If you can't get to the front stay away from traffic and hold back.
RLJing is just lazy.Fixed gear for wet weather / hairy roadie for posing in the sun.
What would Thora Hurd do?0 -
biondino wrote:DDD, give it a rest. Your arguments aren't even making sense any more. You can't treble the size of the police force overnight! And even if you could, having them out on the beat would mean that, unless a crime happens while they're standing there, their presence is going to be prophylactic at best. Remember, a beat bobby isn't investigating, isn't doing paperwork, isn't interviewing - he's just providing a presence.
Secondly, I'm not honestly sure I want streets full of policemen! I'm far from a "omg police state" person but it'd make me feel pretty uneasy!
You've lost this one. Time to start another controversial thread topic!Simply by making this comment you are making the huge assumption that RLJing does not endanger anybodys personal safety. Clearly not everybody shares this opinion.
OK you two need to stop patronizing me.
Firstly, Blondie
I'm not talking about increasing the size of the police force. But if there over stretched resorces have the man power to place police officers and community support officers at specific junctions in South London, where have those officers been during the rest of the year? Like I said I commute throw Balham and Tooting, Streatham and Norbury for the best part of the year, I haven't seen as many police officers in the combind time that I've commuted than on Wednesday. It is not good enough that police come out and show force to stop RLJers once a year and then go back into hiding until the next big event comes along that they can exploit. If they have the resources to have that many police officers on show yesterday, then surely they can have more on the street everyday.
And yes I think more 'beat bobbies' are needed. You take a walk along London Road, from Streatham to Croydon and then tell me what you think?
Secondly,
Yes RLJing can endanger lives. My point was that the number of police officers used along my commute to stop the RLJers compared to that of the number of officers seen throguhout the year on the same stretch of road and in those areas doesn't equate to practical use of police time when considering that police presence can save lives.
OK so Wednesday and Thursday there is going to be an increase in cyclists, some of whom will break red lights. Sure get police officers at junctions to stop and fine them. what about the rest of the year and not just at those junctions but in those areas where crimes happen and there aren't any police officers. Like I said its not good enough that they simply show force when it suits them.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
But if there over stretched resorces have the man power to place police officers and community support officers at specific junctions in South London, where have those officers been during the rest of the year?
Again, I don't actually know, but I imagine this operation had a budget which was spent on bringing in otherwise off duty CSOs and PCs specifically to be a presence and carry it out. Like they do at football matches, say. Certainly there's not some supply of spare coppers sitting in offices twiddling their thumbs who should be out on the beat.0 -
+ if unclipping is too much hassle, buy flat pedals or learn to track-stand.Greg T wrote:To the majority of road users = car drivers they have to witness law breaking behaviour that if they did it would have them arrested and charged with an offence lots of times every day by cyclists.
If I was Plod charged with lowering crime and perceptions of crime I'd be bagging RLJing cyclists everyday of the week. There's a lot of it. Drivers will see the effect of it and I don't have to get my boots dirty shoeing some villain.
It's high visibility high volume law breaking and just screams out nick me.
Don't give me the personal safety line it don't wash.
if you want a clear run sit at the front in the middle of the lane.
If you can't get to the front stay away from traffic and hold back.
RLJing is just lazy.David
Engineered Bicycles0 -
Greg T wrote:To the majority of road users = car drivers they have to witness law breaking behaviour that if they did it would have them arrested and charged with an offence lots of times every day by cyclists.
If I was Plod charged with lowering crime and perceptions of crime I'd be bagging RLJing cyclists everyday of the week. There's a lot of it. Drivers will see the effect of it and I don't have to get my boots dirty shoeing some villain.
It's high visibility high volume law breaking and just screams out nick me.
Don't give me the personal safety line it don't wash.
if you want a clear run sit at the front in the middle of the lane.
If you can't get to the front stay away from traffic and hold back.
RLJing is just lazy.
Nail... head.
Also
[pedant]
RLJ traps Is Soft Touch Policing? Is they really?
[/pedant]0 -
Why do so many people jump in with "RLJ is bad, wrong, dangerous and evil"?
Noone has really been trying to justify RLJ, it's accepted that it's inappropiate behaviour. The thread's topic has been to discuss the police reaction to the tube strike.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:My experience with the coppers is that they are very reasonable
Funny that, my experience is completely the opposite.if by exploit you mean there was a predicted wave of RLJ then yes. well why not. violent crime is not as common as the papers say, do you really think there are police to cover even that area of london? on the off chance of a crime?
I think this is very much a case of ignoring the papers too the point that you become disjointed from the reality and plight of a situation.
"Oh there wasn't really a War in Iraq, that's just what the papers say...." :roll:
Mate, as said in the other thread, I have lived in the areas I'm talking about, they desperately need more officers, everyday, walking around, being seen and letting their presence be felt. It's not good enough that I've seen more police officer's in one day trying to stop cyclists than I've seen in 6 months on a road and around an area that clearly needs more police officers serving day to day and not simply out on force on special occasions.
quite unlikely as others have said that these are local cops taken off the beat to catch RLJ cyclists.
papers print what will sell copy and what they can get hold of, so it tends to be london centric and sensationalist.0 -
Aidy wrote:Why do so many people jump in with "RLJ is bad, wrong, dangerous and evil"?
Noone has really been trying to justify RLJ, it's accepted that it's inappropiate behaviour. The thread's topic has been to discuss the police reaction to the tube strike.
Nail and head!Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:
[pedant]
RLJ traps Is Soft Touch Policing? Is they really?
[/pedant]
Secretly you must be lonely in life.... :roll:Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Well that just proves the reasonable approach doesn't work then :roll:Roastie wrote:
My experience with the coppers is that they are very reasonable - I have been stopped 3 times (all wrong way up one ways, all in the West End), and they have always been firm but fair and let me off with advice and a warning.Aidy wrote:I would argue that this could be achieved to a much better effect by warning them.
Fining new cyclists is either going to discourage or make them resentful.
Issuing a warning can be used to educate and inform, but of course this wouldn't be as financially rewarding.
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Aidy wrote:I would argue that this could be achieved to a much better effect by warning them.
Fining new cyclists is either going to discourage or make them resentful.
Issuing a warning can be used to educate and inform, but of course this wouldn't be as financially rewarding.
This was posted on the first page (LiT I did a Pedant check, it was).
I think it needs a +1Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:
[pedant]
RLJ traps Is Soft Touch Policing? Is they really?
[/pedant]
Secretly you must be lonely in life.... :roll:
Yep, I cry myself to sleep most nights, me. Costs me a fortune to dry-clean my pillows.0 -
Most Police officers want a quiet life.....hence they volunteer for these community strategies......only a a few officer (usually big ex army lads) opt for the "beat em up" squads that go out on a Friday and Saturday night to control town centres.....
Everyone is a target, if there is a bit of cash involved.....0 -
lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:
[pedant]
RLJ traps Is Soft Touch Policing? Is they really?
[/pedant]
Secretly you must be lonely in life.... :roll:
Yep, I cry myself to sleep most nights, me. Costs me a fortune to dry-clean my pillows. Buy some cheaper pillows 0 -
I think it's harsh for the police to be there fining people knowing there'll be more cyclists because of the strikes. They should be there for safety reasons because of the increased number of cyclists because of the strikes.
If they catch an RLJer, they should explain to them how it's illegal etc, explain to them the possible consiquences (i.e. fine / injury), then they should give them advice on how to best use ASLs, how to filter safely, road position.
That kind of action would have the best effect I reckon. Being pulled by the cops on your first cycle commute will be enough to make you think twice. It's people who've been doing things for years then eventually get pulled and only get a caution, that will do it again.
They should be there for the public, not for the profit.0 -
Is it really a problem if people break the law that they are pulled up on it?
Were the police also targetting car drivers, as there was a massive increase in the traffic? If not, then it would seem a little unfair.
If the day cost less in say, overtime than fining people who broke a law than it could be considered to be profitable, and if these profits can be ploughed back into the police force and policing in general is that a bad thing?"Bed is for sleepy people.
Let's get a kebab and go to a disco."
FCN = 3 - 5
Colnago World Cup 20 -
lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:
[pedant]
RLJ traps Is Soft Touch Policing? Is they really?
[/pedant]
Secretly you must be lonely in life.... :roll:
Yep, I cry myself to sleep most nights, me. Costs me a fortune to dry-clean my pillows.
I'm not surprised, all those lonely nights in your truck halfway along a motorway. It must be hard at times...0 -
Rockbuddy wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:
[pedant]
RLJ traps Is Soft Touch Policing? Is they really?
[/pedant]
Secretly you must be lonely in life.... :roll:
Yep, I cry myself to sleep most nights, me. Costs me a fortune to dry-clean my pillows. Buy some cheaper pillows
Cheap and LiT's don't go together, a little like posh and DonDaddyD...
Word is LiT is so high maintenance her pillows can only be filled from the feathers of ducks that fly North for the Winter.... Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:Rockbuddy wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:lost_in_thought wrote:
[pedant]
RLJ traps Is Soft Touch Policing? Is they really?
[/pedant]
Secretly you must be lonely in life.... :roll:
Yep, I cry myself to sleep most nights, me. Costs me a fortune to dry-clean my pillows. Buy some cheaper pillows
Cheap and LiT's don't go together, a little like posh and DonDaddyD...
Word is LiT is so high maintenance her pillows can only be filled from the feathers of ducks that fly North for the Winter....
Ducks? DUCKS?
My pillows are filled with dodo feathers.0 -
Deadeye Duck wrote:I think it's harsh for the police to be there fining people knowing there'll be more cyclists because of the strikes. They should be there for safety reasons because of the increased number of cyclists because of the strikes.
If they catch an RLJer, they should explain to them how it's illegal etc, explain to them the possible consiquences (i.e. fine / injury), then they should give them advice on how to best use ASLs, how to filter safely, road position.
That kind of action would have the best effect I reckon. Being pulled by the cops on your first cycle commute will be enough to make you think twice. It's people who've been doing things for years then eventually get pulled and only get a caution, that will do it again.
They should be there for the public, not for the profit.
Ok, but you are assuming that the police could give advice in those circumstances. They could certainly warn people of the dangers of RLJ but do they have many in the ranks that would know much else about cycling???0
