I need to get faster...please help!

slowclimb
slowclimb Posts: 34
edited June 2009 in Training, fitness and health
I have road cycled for about 4 years now reasonably seriously but I struggle to hold a quick pace for any length of time.
Did a hilly (Scottish Borders) 50 with the local club on Saturday but after 35 miles I was done and ended up trundling home on my own thoroughly p*ssed off. It wasnt that slow, I was home in 2 hrs 34 minutes but I am just slower than my clubmates!
What training would anybody recommend to up my pace.
I have been thinking about doing the Chris Carmichael 7 week training plan but the advanced is just too many hours for me at about 15, the intermediate looks do-able at around 10 but any other tips would be great.
Its hills that really do me in, I'm not overly heavy I dont think at 80kg at 6 feet tall, swim a lot and do triathlons so probably couldnt lose that much weight either...

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    20 minute Intervals.

    Then do more 20 minute intervals.
  • slowclimb
    slowclimb Posts: 34
    do 20's at what kind of pace/heart rate %? And what kind of recovery between?
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    edited June 2009
    20 at a pace you feel you can maintain steadily for the duration but feel spent at the end, recover for however long it takes you to feel like you can go again then, well, go again!

    Alex Simmons should be along in a minute with a much more comprehensive answer. I do mine using a powermeter, very specifically, at or just above my threshold.

    Usually 5 mins recovery for me.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    slowclimb wrote:
    Did a hilly (Scottish Borders) 50 with the local club on Saturday but after 35 miles I was done and ended up trundling home on my own thoroughly p*ssed off. It wasnt that slow, I was home in 2 hrs 34 minutes.

    A hilly 50 mile ride in 2.5 hours!? That's an average of 20 MPH. Do you ride with a semi-pro or pro team if they are dropping you!?
  • slowclimb
    slowclimb Posts: 34
    The rest of the guys out on Saturday are pretty quick, this was the route: http://gb.mapometer.com/en/cycling/route_183505.html probably not fair to describe it as proper hilly but nothing is very flat around here!
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Ask your club trainer what to do...

    analyse where you are weakest and train to beat that weak point

    but if no one is interested in getting you quicker then find another club..
  • ded
    ded Posts: 120
    So looking at that they dropped you halfway up the hill from the Gordon Arms? True it isn't "proper hilly" but it is a hill!

    If hills really are your weakness, 20 minute intervals are probably good - I've done those on a turbo trainer over winter and they definitely helped (but sooooo boring). But, if you are based in/can get to Peebles doing the hill you got dropped on as fast as you can in both directions is a good one (e.g. http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Rosetta-Gordon-Arms-Loop). Put some effort in on that and you'll probably get your heart rate into the right place.
    Pokerface wrote:
    A hilly 50 mile ride in 2.5 hours!? That's an average of 20 MPH. Do you ride with a semi-pro or pro team if they are dropping you!?
    I'm no pro! I'm a little shorter and very slightly lighter than the OP and managed the above ride on bikely @18.3mph solo so I reckon with a bit of hill bashing he could keep on their wheels...
  • slowclimb
    slowclimb Posts: 34
    You're exactly right! I kept with them up the first climb which drops to the cattle grid at Mount Benger and tried to stay with them up the next longer climb but had the thoroughly depressing experience of watching them drift away from me!
    On Saturday I did make a couple of school boy errors too, between Selkirk and the Gordon Arms somebody dropped off the back and me and another 2 guys stayed with them, after a few miles it was obvious we werent getting back with the main group so i went on my own to try and catch them... as you all know 12 fast riders will get on a lot quicker into a headwind than a lone one ie me! So I spent pretty much the next 15 miles struggling into the headwind which pretty much did me in.
    Next one was on the climb up from the Gordon Arms i sat at the back when I should have got to the front to start with anyway and dropped back through the group, only one way to go from the back ..... backwards!
    To be honest I would normally be very happy to do that distance and route in that time but Saturday just totally disheartened me :(
  • ded
    ded Posts: 120
    slowclimb wrote:
    To be honest I would normally be very happy to do that distance and route in that time but Saturday just totally disheartened me
    Don't worry about it. I can remember last year I went out on a faster club chaingang than usual (long story, ended up with the race boys) and got dropped after 20km or so. Thing is, as I fell out of the group I looked round to see 25 riders strung out behind me who had done exactly no work at all, unlike me who (naively) tried to do my share! Your experience sounds like you did something similar, then got dropped... Not worth worrying about! If you got dropped there and still did it in 2h34 then you are still pretty strong - that back road from Traquair is no pushover... :wink:
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    slowclimb wrote:
    I have been thinking about doing the Chris Carmichael 7 week training plan but the advanced is just too many hours for me at about 15, the intermediate looks do-able at around 10 but any other tips would be great.
    yeah, that's a problem with a lot of on-line plans and is why we developed a training plan product that provides for customisation in plans.

    Have a look at our Training Plans - they are customised to your fitness, goals and training time availability and we can allow for a couple of key events as well, so that training is structured to suit those events:
    http://rst-training.blogspot.com/2009/0 ... plans.html
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • sheffsimon
    sheffsimon Posts: 1,282
    ded wrote:
    Don't worry about it. I can remember last year I went out on a faster club chaingang than usual (long story, ended up with the race boys) and got dropped after 20km or so. Thing is, as I fell out of the group I looked round to see 25 riders strung out behind me who had done exactly no work at all, unlike me who (naively) tried to do my share! Your experience sounds like you did something similar, then got dropped... Not worth worrying about! If you got dropped there and still did it in 2h34 then you are still pretty strong - that back road from Traquair is no pushover... :wink:

    Whats the point in that? You did the right thing mate, 20k of good training.
  • fuzzynavel
    fuzzynavel Posts: 718
    SheffSimon wrote:
    ded wrote:
    Don't worry about it. I can remember last year I went out on a faster club chaingang than usual (long story, ended up with the race boys) and got dropped after 20km or so. Thing is, as I fell out of the group I looked round to see 25 riders strung out behind me who had done exactly no work at all, unlike me who (naively) tried to do my share! Your experience sounds like you did something similar, then got dropped... Not worth worrying about! If you got dropped there and still did it in 2h34 then you are still pretty strong - that back road from Traquair is no pushover... :wink:

    Whats the point in that? You did the right thing mate, 20k of good training.

    Exactly right.....maybe in a competitive race you should do what your buddies did and take it easy where possible...but what is the point in going for a training ride and sitting in the bunch...you may as well do your turn on the front so you get at least a little bit of a workout...
    I stopped going out with my local club because I was increasing base fitness to complete a set distance but I wasn't getting any faster over the distance. I can now do the course faster solo than I used to in the chaingang. Will go back soon to see if I can hang in there with the faster group...

    I'll get spat out the back but at least it will be a challenge!
    17 Stone down to 12.5 now raring to get back on the bike!
  • vorsprung
    vorsprung Posts: 1,953
    Another effective way to increase hill speed is to loose a couple of kg of body fat
    Audaxing Blog - Long Distance Cycling
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  • Edwin
    Edwin Posts: 785
    Completely agree. My (admittedly totally unscientific) training method is to go out with the best riders you know. Even if you take a kicking every week, eventually you are bound to improve.
    If it gets you down, just try to think positively about it - most of the club probably wouldn't even attempt to go with that group. If they did, a lot of them wouldn't get to the end of the road. You've managed 35 miles with what sounds like a very hard chaingang.
    Keep going, and maybe think about organising some smaller rides with the fast lads, or see if any of them are prepared to wait for you.
  • Edwin
    Edwin Posts: 785
    Sorry, I was a bit slow posting there so didn't see vorsprung's comment - I didn't mean I was agreeing with that, I don't think 80kg is particularly heavy....
  • fuzzynavel
    fuzzynavel Posts: 718
    Edwin wrote:
    Sorry, I was a bit slow posting there so didn't see vorsprung's comment - I didn't mean I was agreeing with that, I don't think 80kg is particularly heavy....

    Try being just shy of 100kg and pulling a lardy ass up a hill!!!
    17 Stone down to 12.5 now raring to get back on the bike!
  • vorsprung
    vorsprung Posts: 1,953
    Edwin wrote:
    Sorry, I was a bit slow posting there so didn't see vorsprung's comment - I didn't mean I was agreeing with that, I don't think 80kg is particularly heavy....

    Yes, 80kg for 6 foot ( to mix the SI and imperial in the usual way) is fairly good.

    Depending on your body shape there might be room for a couple of kg to come off and this is easier than increasing power

    I am 6 foot 2 and just about managed 80kg for my main events. 82kg is a easier weight to hold though
    Audaxing Blog - Long Distance Cycling
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  • Edwin
    Edwin Posts: 785
    FWIW, I'm normally about 68-69 Kg, and I still get dropped up hills sometimes. I normally struggle on faster flat sections, so I'd rather increase my power than lose any more weight, plus if I lose too much weight I start feeling weak and end up slower anyway.
    There's no easy answer to this unfortunately, it's just fitness really.
  • Toks
    Toks Posts: 1,143
    slowclimb wrote:
    What training would anybody recommend to up my pace.
    Suprise surpise you gotta get fitter :twisted: Thats of course assuming your fuelling is appropriate and you ride smartly in groups. The key component to performing well in endurance cycling is increasing your lactate threshold and possibly your VO2 max.

    In the case of LT one approach is to spend chunks of time at or near TT or race pace. The much celebrated 2 x 20's which have been mentioned would be a good starting point. After a warm up ride hard for twenty minutes (it should feel moderatley hard and just managagible, conversation should not be possible but you could mutter some words)In terms of heart rate perhaps 85-90% of your max). Take a 5-10 minute break then repeat with a 2nd 20 min effort.

    It will take a few sessions to get the pacing and intensity correct but its worth the effort. It doesn't have to be 2 x 20, it could be 3 x 20, 60 mins, 2 x 30. The key is to spend a good chunk of time at threshold intensity/power.

    Alternatively you could focus on VO2max efforts which would be slightly above typical race/TT pace. For example 5 x 5 (5mins hard break for 5 mins and then repeat another 4 times. These intervals can be quite fatiguing but are apparently great for peaking for a target event. I can never bring myself to do them for very long so good luck :D
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    How about breaking your leg?

    On wednesday I posted a 10 mile TT time 35 seconds faster than my best ever, within three months of breaking mine :shock:
  • pjm-84
    pjm-84 Posts: 819
    but I struggle to hold a quick pace for any length of time.
    Did a hilly (Scottish Borders) 50 with the local club on Saturday but after 35 miles I was done

    Who much are you eating / drinking on the ride?
    Paul

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