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Police clamping down on cyclists in Oxford and Bournemouth

megillelandmegilleland Posts: 786
edited August 2009 in Campaign
In Bournemouth, peering out from behind a Dorset beach hut, a police officer is armed with a speed camera waiting to catch cyclists travelling too fast along a promenade, and in Oxford fines issued to 95 cyclists. Is this the future of policing?
The more you spend - the faster you go - the less you see.
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  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    If people are commiting crimes, then why should they not be detected by the police and punished via the criminal justice system or are you suggesting cyclists should be able to commit crimes and escape punishment
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

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  • beverickbeverick Posts: 3,461
    Break the law, get caught.

    Sounds good to me.

    Bob
  • beatsystembeatsystem Posts: 118
    I dont believe you can be had for speeding on a bicycle! Dangerous riding perhaps! How can you be had for speeding when a bike does nt have to have a speedo?
  • will3will3 Posts: 2,173
    beatsystem wrote:
    I dont believe you can be had for speeding on a bicycle! Dangerous riding perhaps! How can you be had for speeding when a bike does nt have to have a speedo?

    That's pretty much what it says in the article.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    beatsystem wrote:
    I dont believe you can be had for speeding on a bicycle! Dangerous riding perhaps! How can you be had for speeding when a bike does nt have to have a speedo?


    THe reason you can't be done for speeding generally on a pedal cycle is because the legislation applies to motor vehicles.

    It is possible to own a motor vehicle without a speedo ( an old vehicle mind you) and still be done for speeding
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • megillelandmegilleland Posts: 786
    Surely with all this negative action towards cyclists why cannot the authorities sort out a solution for all involved. If this high number of cyclists are involved, maybe a questionnaire could be implemented at the same time they are stopped to find out what these cyclists knowledge of the law is and what issues concern them. That would give the authorities something to consider.

    Found the following on the CTC website:
    Vehicle-Restricted Areas and Pedestrianised Zones
    In many town and city centres, it is normal practice to restrict motor vehicle access. There are aesthetic, environmental, safety and commercial benefits in creating car-free zones. Restricting access for motorists creates environments in which travel on foot and by bicycle is encouraged. Research commissioned by the Department for Transport found no real reasons for excluding cyclists from pedestrian zones; in fact, cyclists were being proactive in slowing down or dismounting through busy areas.

    However, as with all areas with shared-use, there are concerns that people with mobility problems and sight or hearing problems can be put at risk by permitting cyclists into what were previously pedestrianised areas. These issues can be overcome through good design and suitable signposting.

    The CTC View:
    Cycling should be permitted in pedestrian areas wherever possible. If pedestrian flows during peak shopping hours make this impracticable, cycling should be permitted in pedestrian areas from midnight to 10 am and 4 pm to midnight to allow usage by cycle commuters.

    Where pedestrian areas interrupt cycle routes, safe and convenient alternative routes should be incorporated into the cycle route network maintaining the directness of the cycle route as a priority and ensuring cyclists can use the alternative safely.
    The more you spend - the faster you go - the less you see.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    Surely with all this negative action towards cyclists why cannot the authorities sort out a solution for all involved. If this high number of cyclists are involved, maybe a questionnaire could be implemented at the same time they are stopped to find out what these cyclists knowledge of the law is and what issues concern them. That would give the authorities something to consider.

    ....


    Instead of arresting murderers, burglars etc, lets implement a questionairre when they are stopped......that would give the authorities something to consider
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    Surely with all this negative action towards cyclists why cannot the authorities sort out a solution for all involved. If this high number of cyclists are involved, maybe a questionnaire could be implemented at the same time they are stopped to find out what these cyclists knowledge of the law is and what issues concern them. That would give the authorities something to consider.

    ....


    Instead of arresting murderers, burglars etc, lets implement a questionairre when they are stopped......that would give the authorities something to consider
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • megillelandmegilleland Posts: 786
    Instead of arresting murderers, burglars etc, lets implement a questionairre when they are stopped......that would give the authorities something to consider
    I thought they did - isn't that called psychiatric treatment (the practice or science of diagnosing and treating mental disorders). I don't think cyclists come into that category.
    The more you spend - the faster you go - the less you see.
  • OffTheBackAdamOffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,869
    The motto of this story is.
    Don't ride too fast in areas shared with pedestrians
    Don't ride somewhere where it's illegal to do so.
    Would you be complaining if it were a motorist being stopped for speeding or driving (however slowly) through a pedestrian precinct?
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • CunobelinCunobelin Posts: 11,792
    These are not offences under "Road Traffic legislation" they are Bye-Laws and hence fully enforceable against bicycles.
    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
  • liversedgeliversedge Posts: 1,002
    Is the speed limit signposted?
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    spen666 wrote:
    If people are commiting crimes, then why should they not be detected by the police and punished via the criminal justice system or are you suggesting cyclists should be able to commit crimes and escape punishment

    It's a question of priorities - it's funny that with the high percentage of illegal vehicles on the road that the police even have time to target cyclists.

    What is also suspicious IMO is a couple of incidents in Sotuh London where a cycle lane appeared on a map, but not on the road (due to council incompetence) which led to many cyclists riding the wrong way down a one way road - confused presumably by the discprepencies between map and relaity.

    Anyway - in at least two cases the police turned up for a period and fined every cyclists that got caught by this - effectively - trap. Instead of putting up a sign stating that the cycle lane doesn't exist - they chose to fine every individual making what wa sunderstandable mistake.

    so I don;t trust the police when it comes to their attitude to cyclists.

    Wheras I've seen countless cars run red lights in front of police cars - and they take no action whatsoever - unless someone complains (as I do) and then they walk over and give the driver a warning - if they feel like it.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Porgy wrote:
    spen666 wrote:
    If people are commiting crimes, then why should they not be detected by the police and punished via the criminal justice system or are you suggesting cyclists should be able to commit crimes and escape punishment

    It's a question of priorities - it's funny that with the high percentage of illegal vehicles on the road that the police even have time to target cyclists.

    What is also suspicious IMO is a couple of incidents in Sotuh London where a cycle lane appeared on a map, but not on the road (due to council incompetence) which led to many cyclists riding the wrong way down a one way road - confused presumably by the discprepencies between map and relaity.

    Anyway - in at least two cases the police turned up for a period and fined every cyclists that got caught by this - effectively - trap. Instead of putting up a sign stating that the cycle lane doesn't exist - they chose to fine every individual making what wa sunderstandable mistake.

    so I don;t trust the police when it comes to their attitude to cyclists.

    Wheras I've seen countless cars run red lights in front of police cars - and they take no action whatsoever - unless someone complains (as I do) and then they walk over and give the driver a warning - if they feel like it.

    How do you know this? If I'm on my way to a job I'll just make a note of the registration, note the time and place and I'll report them later.
  • CunobelinCunobelin Posts: 11,792
    Much of the Policing is " by consent"

    These "Crackdowns" will be because there are issues and there have been complaints, and the Police need to be seen to take action.
    <b><i>He that buys land buys many stones.
    He that buys flesh buys many bones.
    He that buys eggs buys many shells,
    But he that buys good beer buys nothing else.</b></i>
    (Unattributed Trad.)
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    NapoleonD wrote:
    How do you know this? If I'm on my way to a job I'll just make a note of the registration, note the time and place and I'll report them later.

    It's just what I see. Of course they could be writing down the registration numbers - but I doubt it.

    Do you have any feedback rom reporting RLJs? I've never got the police to act on anything from just one witness unless I'm the vicitm, and even then, it's not easy.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Seeing that it's me that report's them yes, I get lots of feedback!!
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Cunobelin wrote:
    Much of the Policing is " by consent"

    These "Crackdowns" will be because there are issues and there have been complaints, and the Police need to be seen to take action.

    Indeed, when I was a traffic officer we used to respond to areas where we had had the most complaints about bad driving / speeding etc. It was always led by complaints from the public...
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    Cunobelin wrote:
    Much of the Policing is " by consent"

    These "Crackdowns" will be because there are issues and there have been complaints, and the Police need to be seen to take action.

    I used to sit on a pedesrian and cyclists comittee in a local council and all the complaints we got were from the same half a dozen or so people - cyclist haters to a man, or woman.

    In general anything the cyclists managed to get the council or a business to agree to would be dropped at the following meeting becasue of a complaint from one if these people.

    Interfering old gits I called them. 99% of people would ahve been happy with shared use cycle paths - but because of 5 interfering old gits we never got them.

    that's chislehurst for you though.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Seeing that it's me that report's them yes, I get lots of feedback!!

    you'll have to tell me how its done then - i couldn't even get them to call me back when my daughter went missing.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I obviously can't answer on behalf of the met as I'm in Manchester, I complete an offence report, write a statement, get a Notice of Intended Prosectution /s.172 RTA form sent to the registered keeper, get that back then submit it all through the summons clerk.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    NapoleonD wrote:
    I obviously can't answer on behalf of the met as I'm in Manchester, I complete an offence report, write a statement, get a Notice of Intended Prosectution /s.172 RTA form sent to the registered keeper, get that back then submit it all through the summons clerk.

    Cripes! I'm scared to even try to talk to a Met officer tbh. Maybe I should move.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Porgy, you have read the part about me being a Police Officer haven't you?


    :D
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    NapoleonD wrote:
    Porgy, you have read the part about me being a Police Officer haven't you?


    :D

    nope :oops:




    am i duly warned? :P
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I was just surprised at your, err, surprise about how easy it was for me to report someone for RLJing! Heh heh.
  • PorgyPorgy Posts: 4,525
    NapoleonD wrote:
    I was just surprised at your, err, surprise about how easy it was for me to report someone for RLJing! Heh heh.

    Yeah well it does explain everything - so you reckon that motorists are being proescuted and that wouldn;t necessarily be obvious to causal yet intersted passer-by?

    Hmmm....interesting....I may have to check this out.

    I assumed that the'd have to pull the car over like they used to do with speeding and (minor?) traffic offences.

    Also I assume that every other car in London has registered fraudelent details so even if you have the plate you haven;t got the driver. that may still be the case in sarf london.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Porgy wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    I was just surprised at your, err, surprise about how easy it was for me to report someone for RLJing! Heh heh.

    Yeah well it does explain everything - so you reckon that motorists are being proescuted and that wouldn;t necessarily be obvious to causal yet intersted passer-by?

    Hmmm....interesting....I may have to check this out.

    I assumed that the'd have to pull the car over like they used to do with speeding and (minor?) traffic offences.

    Also I assume that every other car in London has registered fraudelent details so even if you have the plate you haven;t got the driver. that may still be the case in sarf london.

    It's a matter of priority, if I'm not on my way to something more important I'll always pull the car over. I always check the car is registered and insured etc before deciding to just take the details. If there's owt iffy, I'll give it a pull anyway (unless the job I'm on my way to is an emergency).
    I try and do it on the details because I'd have to go through on red myself to stop the car which, even with blue lights/klaxons etc is still a risk you have to weigh up.
  • pompeypoppypompeypoppy Posts: 182
    There has been a recent crackdown in Portsmouth against cyclists riding on the pavement, and about time too. £30 fines for those caught. One of my housemates admits to doing it, and when I spoke to him about it his view was "everyone else is doing it, so i will too".

    We have a 20mph speed limit in all residential areas and 30mph on the vast majority of other routes, with many cyclepaths and lanes, yet I probably see 90% of cyclists riding on pavements.

    With the vast improvement in safety for cyclists in Portsmouth (and many other towns and cities) it is embarassing to see people continually using the pavement, and this I feel does need to be policed.

    As for the speeding on a promenade, yes, it's illegal, but I'd rather the police looked at stopping cyclists riding where they shouldn't, rather than stop them for speeding.
  • laelae Posts: 555
    liversedge wrote:
    Is the speed limit signposted?

    I live in Bournemouth and the speed limit on the promenade is signposted about twice in a 5 mile stretch. IIRC it's 20mph which is very easy to creep over with a tailwind.

    You aren't allowed to cycle there between 10am-6pm in the summer though, that's signposted every 30 feet, even though people go down there in their cars all the time...
  • laelae Posts: 555
    Just to demonstrate how infrequently it is signposted - I cycle the whole promenade, from Christchurch harbour to the studland and back, every day - even I didn't know what the actual speed limit is!
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