A few Hinault comments

frenchfighter

None of you guys are touching on the key point. Armstrong is totally out of order with his appalling remark. Not a very good example by him for all Lance's Lions.

Kléber

Frencfighter, surely the issue is Hinault's comments? We don't need to follow every bitter comment from Armstrong

frenchfighter

You are right as that is what the thread is about. It just surprised me as no one really mentionned how low grade a comment it was.

moray_gub

flattythehurdler wrote:

[
I would say that lance waws the last patron. Don't recall BH ever getting his henchmen to gob all over someone on the Champs d'Elysees for an innocuous and truthful statement.

then, Azevedo, I think, gave him some kind of a gesture and spat on the road.

your definition of all over and mine are obviously someways apart.

dave_1

go to youtube and gottheteeshirt recalls BH calling him a little shit just caused he attacked when BH had sore legs-exactly what racing is about! I still admire BH but agree with Lance A 's reply on twitter.

I recall also what Laurent Fignon said of Hinault's attack after just getting back on after being dropped on Croix de fer-1984 TDF. Basically, Hinault attacked straight away without recovering from the chase back on and Fignon said at the top of Alpe du Huez "his attack made me laugh"....indeed Hinault was a little crazy and not bright sometimes...BH went OTT in that interview

dave_1

stefrees wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

was merely pointing the sheer inconsistency in Micron's position on Lance...he defends Hinault's record, trashes Lance's...what kinda logic is that? If he is so harsh on Armstrong claiming him a fraud 2 days ago...how can he see Hinault's career is anything less than a fraud?

how can you constanly defend armstrong yet seem to blast everyone else? hinault was a cyclist who tried to win with style. armstrong is a bully who won the tour 7 times by buying up the opposition and getting them all to ride for just him. i hope armstrong gets blitzed not just by contador, but schleck, sastre and nibali too

I admire Lance Armstrong the bike racer, the livestrong stuff and the ego make me a bit sick...he had the same stuff in his blood as they all did...I have no illusions,...I think Hinault was brill...but a bully too, as we see with the tone of his interview

Meds1962

Was BH trying to goad the French into getting their fingers out? It must be frustrating meeting every other nationality but your own on those podiums year after year.

I'm sure neither Lance nor Hinault will lose any sleep over each others comments, Lance could have chosen a better word than wanker though!!

Kléber

Meds1962 wrote:

Was BH trying to goad the French into getting their fingers out? It must be frustrating meeting every other nationality but your own on those podiums year after year.

The French teams have been lazy in the past, a reflection that little else matters than the Tour de France and that many of them get automatic selections and then content themselves with fruitless breakaways. Any talented rider is shoved into the Tour, for example Chavanel was long told to be ready for July when his talents are more suited towards April, arguably he's missed several years of potential results because he and his team only thought of July. His old team, BBox Bouygues are now probably making the same mistake with Pierre Rolland, KOM in the 2008 Dauphine, who is being built up for the Tour when he'd be better off doing the Ardennaises and Flanders.

But things are improving. Cofidis has a full time trainer is looking to recruit a second trainer, that means two full time trainers. The likes of Saxo Bank, Astana, Quick-Step or Liquigas have not one trainer on their books. Small wonder Frank Schleck tried to buy "training plans" from Fuentes...

dave_1

remember Bernard Hinault wouldn't even have won a fifth TDF had Greg Lemond not been there on his team...in my eyes he's a 4 time TDF winner..Lemond a 4 but would have 5 or 6 had luck allowed

Kléber

Apply that argument Dave and it works the other way too, Hinault would have won a sixth had he not been forced to sit out in the year Fignon won.

dave_1

Kléber wrote:

Apply that argument Dave and it works the other way too, Hinault would have won a sixth had he not been forced to sit out in the year Fignon won.

But re Hinault's injury... that we don't know, he missed 1983....maybe his form would have been off a bit...maybe other things would have happened as he never raced we won't know...what we do know is the history of that day in summer 1985 when BH just had his DS make Lemond back off when lemond was in yellow on the road half way up Luz Ardiden-that was not panache was it ? I think nobody ca accuse LA for that...he was the strongest even though he bought up soem great riders...at least LA never made them back off...he was always better than any of them in man to man climbing battles

Kléber

Except Pantani beat Armstrong on Ventoux

Pantani might have been able to beat Armstrong but his slide into depression and more put a stop to that. Either way, it is irrelevant for me, the results were extremely distorted by the likes of Ferrari and Conconi.

dulldave

Dave_1 wrote:

remember Bernard Hinault wouldn't even have won a fifth TDF had Greg Lemond not been there on his team...in my eyes he's a 4 time TDF winner..Lemond a 4 but would have 5 or 6 had luck allowed

You can't devalue a tour win just because the person helping him was good. That's a fundamental part of the sport. So who's won the tour with out any help from anyone then? And how many wins do you give LA out of this logic?

intothe12

the arguments about who was better, Hinault or Armstrong is all fairly subjective. The one thing that the pair of them have in common is that they would probably trample over their own mothers for a victory, such was their competitive instinct.

What is a fairer and more interesting comment is that Hinault does not seem to be such a polarising character in the way that Armstrong is...i.e. Hinault was a tough bastard but willingly respected by all, but with Armstrong your respect is almost given reluctantly and begrudgingly.

Hinault should have been an ego maniac, but according to Andy Hampsten who rode with him, although Hinault had a huge ego, he had some good words about him in this interview ( http://nyvelocity.com/content/interview ... -interview ) effectively he says that Hinault was always about the advice to younger riders, matter of fact etc., and the thing that struck a chord with me about Hinault which i did not fully appreciate until reading this interview and on reflection I agree with him was this, Hampsten said Hinault’s view on helping Lemond in the 1986 tour was "I said I'd help him win the Tour de France, but you can't just GIVE the Tour de France to someone". That comment to me is born from someone who (a) respects the race and (b) did not want himself devalued by allowing a weaker rider beat him, but he made Lemond fight for it and Lemond was strong and earned it, which only enhances Lemonds victory in my view. What this showed was the Hinault has character, the same I am afraid to say is not wholly event in Armstrong.

dave_1

....Hinault is a far better champion than Lance A, far better palmares, don't want you guys think I am bashing Hinault...he was far superior as a bike rider...LA wouldn't dare attempt PAris Roubaix or solos in the snow in Liege...

flattythehurdler

Moray Gub wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

[
I would say that lance waws the last patron. Don't recall BH ever getting his henchmen to gob all over someone on the Champs d'Elysees for an innocuous and truthful statement.

then, Azevedo, I think, gave him some kind of a gesture and spat on the road.

your definition of all over and mine are obviously someways apart.

Ah no. Simioni finished the stage on the Champs with spittle dripping from his legs and through the holes in his helmet having been surrounded and gobbed on by pro lance thugs in the peloton. Do a little research.

deejay

Dave_1 wrote:

was merely pointing the sheer inconsistency in Micron's position on Lance...he defends Hinault's record, trashes Lance's...what kinda logic is that? If he is so harsh on Armstrong claiming him a fraud 2 days ago...how can he see Hinault's career is anything less than a fraud?

I read somewhere, the Badger with 10 GT wins and 5 Monuments, + many, many other races.

We know the Part-Time guy won 7.

What would the Badger have won with the same sort of Juice that Riis had to fly up those Mountains and 3 years later we see the Texan do the same.

cougie

flattythehurdler wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

[
I would say that lance waws the last patron. Don't recall BH ever getting his henchmen to gob all over someone on the Champs d'Elysees for an innocuous and truthful statement.

then, Azevedo, I think, gave him some kind of a gesture and spat on the road.

your definition of all over and mine are obviously someways apart.

Ah no. Simioni finished the stage on the Champs with spittle dripping from his legs and through the holes in his helmet having been surrounded and gobbed on by pro lance thugs in the peloton. Do a little research.

I must have missed this - where was that reported ?

moray_gub

flattythehurdler wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

flattythehurdler wrote:

[
I would say that lance waws the last patron. Don't recall BH ever getting his henchmen to gob all over someone on the Champs d'Elysees for an innocuous and truthful statement.

then, Azevedo, I think, gave him some kind of a gesture and spat on the road.

your definition of all over and mine are obviously someways apart.

Ah no. Simioni finished the stage on the Champs with spittle dripping from his legs and through the holes in his helmet having been surrounded and gobbed on by pro lance thugs in the peloton. Do a little research.

Ok researched nothing there move on.....................

knedlicky

frenchfighter wrote:

Looking more closely at Hinault's palmares I wished I was of an age to watch him in his years of dominance. His palmares are ridiculously good and make Lance look like a schoolboy.

6 Classics wins
2 Vueltas
3 Giros
5 Tours
28 stage wins
World Champion
5 Grand Prix des Nations
3 Crit. Daup. Lib.

I think worthy of including in this list is Hinault's winning the final stage in 1982 on the Champs-Elysees, which few TdF to-be-winners would ever risk.

shockedsoshocked

knedlicky wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

I think worthy of including in this list is Hinault's winning the final stage in 1982 on the Champs-Elysees, which few TdF to-be-winners would ever risk.

And don't forget 79

timoid.

Dave_1 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Apply that argument Dave and it works the other way too, Hinault would have won a sixth had he not been forced to sit out in the year Fignon won.

But re Hinault's injury... that we don't know, he missed 1983....maybe his form would have been off a bit...maybe other things would have happened as he never raced we won't know...what we do know is the history of that day in summer 1985 when BH just had his DS make Lemond back off when lemond was in yellow on the road half way up Luz Ardiden-that was not panache was it ? I think nobody ca accuse LA for that...he was the strongest even though he bought up soem great riders...at least LA never made them back off...he was always better than any of them in man to man climbing battles

What about 1980. Winning when he had to withdraw with a knee injury and captain wheelsucker inherits the crown.

There are a lot of what ifs. Fact is, Hinault has five TdF victories and that can't be changed.

dave_1

Timoid. wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Kléber wrote:

Apply that argument Dave and it works the other way too, Hinault would have won a sixth had he not been forced to sit out in the year Fignon won.

But re Hinault's injury... that we don't know, he missed 1983....maybe his form would have been off a bit...maybe other things would have happened as he never raced we won't know...what we do know is the history of that day in summer 1985 when BH just had his DS make Lemond back off when lemond was in yellow on the road half way up Luz Ardiden-that was not panache was it ? I think nobody ca accuse LA for that...he was the strongest even though he bought up soem great riders...at least LA never made them back off...he was always better than any of them in man to man climbing battles

What about 1980. Winning when he had to withdraw with a knee injury and captain wheelsucker inherits the crown.

There are a lot of what ifs. Fact is, Hinault has five TdF victories and that can't be changed.

fair enough Timoid...this is a cracker....he crashes off a hill side, then back on, tries to pack I think and the crowd don't let him pack it

http://criterium.ledauphine.com/criteri ... s,3,4.html

frenchfighter

Nice link Dave.

dave_1

frenchfighter wrote:

Nice link Dave.

he was hard as nails eh...straight back on the bike and then into shock..the docs would have pulled him out today I bet...it's the way they will him on, walks wi bike...hardcore

Kléber

An ogre, a bully but it was all about riding the bike with panache. I don't know what others think but I can respect that.

Media boycotts, false promises, empty threats of legal action: I just feel a bit sorry for more modern "champions" who struggle under the weight of the chips on their shoulders.

micron

+1 Kleber