A few Hinault comments

iainf72

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves20 ... nazes.html

I thought the French riders did poorly because they were are pure as the driven snow? Rather than overpaid lazy gits

drenkrom

Wow! Someone hadn't had his first coffee yet!

For the non-French readers out there.

On French riders: «We have champions who become bureaucrats (office workers) once they turn pro. You have to put a blade to their throats to get results. The French get too much money for too little effort. French riders don't really train. No one forces them to progress (in literal terms: "no one beats them around so they progress") ! You'd have to withold part of their salary and give it back in case of victory for that to happen.»

On French DS's: «Most of them know nothing. When you have fools in the cars, you end up with fools on the bikes as well. Some of them would be better to go back to school.»

On LA: «Armstrong is scared of France ? In that case, no one is forcing him to come, he can stay at home ! Anyway, he can't win. I hope Contador will give him a spanking.»

phew...

OffTheBackAdam

Le Blaireu's views on his countryfellows hasn't changed much over the years, has it!

frenchfighter

Interesting. Allez Hinault!

leguape

Hasn't Guimard said similar things about the motivation of French riders?

donrhummy

I lost a lot of respect for Hinault in 1986 when he lied to Lemond and did everything he could to undercut him and tear the team apart.

Of course, years later I lost some respect for Lemond but still...

LangerDan

"Grumpy retired person criticises young people for being lazy, overpaid and not as good as he was"

Might be less of an analysis of French cycling and more a case of the human condition.

andy_wrx

Well, it is the same story you read in a number of ex-pro biographies where they went off as English-speaking amateurs to join a French club and try continental amateur racing as the first rung on the ladder to becoming a pro, lived 4-up in a tiny flat in Paris, ate cold baked beans because that was all they could afford, got no support from their French club, had to work twice as hard as their French counterparts to make it, etc.

dave_1

am surprised he takes such a harsh view of Armstrong...but fair enough...with Le blaireau's palmares one can pretty much say what one wants , who can argue? I love his comment on Lemond...Lemond attacked at Superbagneres, and backed off on Alpe Du Huez cause of Hinault's false promise

IanTrcp

Lance's view from his Twitter thingy:

"What a wanker. 5 TdF wins doesn't buy you any common sense."

frenchfighter

IanTrcp wrote:

Lance's view from his Twitter thingy:

"What a wanker. 5 TdF wins doesn't buy you any common sense."

That is incredibly rude by Armstrong and shows his total lack of respect of greats. To descend to swearwords means he has lost. What does Armstrong know at all about French teams/riders in any case.

I said it at the start of the year and I will say it stronger now, I hope Contador toys with Lance like he was a 4th Cat and not only that he beats him by miles but also that he crushes the little insect into the ground so he runs back to the US and never steps foot in Europe to race again. Conard.

dave_1

frenchfighter wrote:

IanTrcp wrote:

Lance's view from his Twitter thingy:

"What a wanker. 5 TdF wins doesn't buy you any common sense."

That is incredibly rude by Armstrong and shows his total lack of respect of greats. To descend to swearwords means he has lost. What does Armstrong know at all about French teams/riders in any case.

I said it at the start of the year and I will say it stronger now, I hope Contador toys with Lance like he was a 4th Cat and not only that he beats him by miles but also that he crushes the little insect into the ground so he runs back to the US and never steps foot in Europe to race again. Conard.

No it's not. Hinault asked for it....he deserves some abuse does BH...

frenchfighter

My opinion of LA still holds and my comments are certainly what I think.

Hinault didn't abuse LA. He said he hoped Contador would beat him conclusively (which is what most people think in any case). If Lance cannot take a bit of that type of talk which is common in all sports then maybe he should go back to the US and his adoring public. Old man, go home.

Don't forget that LA is FAR FAR below Hinault in terms of achievement. Just take a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Hi ... highlights
Take out Lance's TdF wins and you have a medicore rider.

nick hanson

Funny that.Armstrong always says he got his results through hard work,six hours in the pissin rain,etc,etc
Hinault basically says,french pro's are not putting in the training,& Armstrong has the cheek to say that.
Me thinks Armstrong underestimated how hard it would be to come back at the top,& wants the French to exclude him from the TDF,& he can say "sorry folks,those pesky French won't let me ride...."

frenchfighter

Looking more closely at Hinault's palmares I wished I was of an age to watch him in his years of dominance. His palmares are ridiculously good and make Lance look like a schoolboy.

6 Classics wins
2 Vueltas
3 Giros
5 Tours
28 stage wins
World Champion
5 Grand Prix des Nations
3 Crit. Daup. Lib.

blazing_saddles

I'm quite pleased to see the term "wanker" (not the insult, though) being endorsed by Lance.
It will be one of the few "English" terms, making the trip to the US, not the other way around, which is the norm.
However, is it suitable language for a budding poitician to throw around, at the first sign of dissent?

He has obviously picked it up on his regular visits to the cycling forums, to check up on how his return is being received. :roll:

As for Hinault: The truth often hurts. Common sense in abundance.

micron

Agreed French fighter - when Armstrong can match those palmares, not to mention Hinault's panache - then maybe he can call one of the indisuptably greatest riders of all time a 'wanker'

Armstrong is awfully thin skinned, isn't he - he seems to be capable of throwing a full on diva strop at the drop of a slightly less than flattering remark.

dave_1

micron wrote:

Agreed French fighter - when Armstrong can match those palmares, not to mention Hinault's panache - then maybe he can call one of the indisuptably greatest riders of all time a 'wanker'

Armstrong is awfully thin skinned, isn't he - he seems to be capable of throwing a full on diva strop at the drop of a slightly less than flattering remark.

and also Hinault was clean so no comparison really

frenchfighter

Dave_1 I'm sorry but if you are insinuating that Hinault was doped to the nines and Lance was as clean as a whistle so Hinault's performance's aren't notable then you have amused me greatly.

1. Put LA and Hinault both in their primes, both doped to the nines and I would stake a lot of money on Hinault leaving Lance for dead and showing him how a real rider races..
2. If Hinault doped then so were many of his closest competitors, so the playing field was 'level'.
3. LA is far from clean. Note that he has had a +ve which is more than you can say about Hinault.
4. If you can't see that LA's comment is atrotcious then IMO your opinion on other issues is questionnable.
5. Your logic would rule out the achievements of Merckx, Anquetil and so on which is fanciful to say they least.

micron - you do right to mention Hinault's panache too. Didn't he say something like: 'While I breath I attack'. I would also add that he had style, something Lance never had or has.

You would also think LA would have better things to do with his time (like care for his days old baby and partner (is that the 5th now?!)) rather than making stupid comments on twitter.

leguape

Dave_1 wrote:

micron wrote:

Agreed French fighter - when Armstrong can match those palmares, not to mention Hinault's panache - then maybe he can call one of the indisuptably greatest riders of all time a 'wanker'

Armstrong is awfully thin skinned, isn't he - he seems to be capable of throwing a full on diva strop at the drop of a slightly less than flattering remark.

and also Hinault was clean so no comparison really

:shock: You are joking aren't you? Bellocq, Sainz/Mabuse both linked to Hinault at various points. Neither of them has the reputation of someone you'd take medical advice from if you were clean.

dave_1

was merely pointing the sheer inconsistency in Micron's position on Lance...he defends Hinault's record, trashes Lance's...what kinda logic is that? If he is so harsh on Armstrong claiming him a fraud 2 days ago...how can he see Hinault's career is anything less than a fraud?

aurelio_-_banned

Dave_1 wrote:

was merely pointing the sheer inconsistency in Micron's position on Lance...he defends Hinault's record, trashes Lance's...what kinda logic is that? If he is so harsh on Armstrong claiming him a fraud 2 days ago...how can he see Hinault's career is anything less than a fraud?

There are a couple of important differences between the careers of the two riders.

Hinault's first ride in a 'Grand Tour' was in the 1978 Vuelta, which he won. He first rode the Tour de France that year as well, which he also won. He won the Tour again in1979. In 1980 he abandoned the Tour with a knee injury whilst leading it, but did win the Giro.

In comparison, Armstrong in his pre-Ferrari days got his arse kicked all over France when riding the Tour, losing huge amounts of time in the mountains and being consistently mediocre in the flat Time Trials. He packed in his first two tours and finished one and half hours down to the winner the third time he rode it.

So who had the most natural talent? I would say Hinault, and whilst there certainly was plenty of doping going on in Hinault's day, it did not have the power to turn donkeys into racehorses, as the use of Epo / a medically-managed blood doping program seems to be capable of. If Hinault doped, morally he is no better than Armstrong, but his palmares is not the fraudulent creation of an expertly managed doping program, as Armstrong's appears to be.

stefrees

Dave_1 wrote:

was merely pointing the sheer inconsistency in Micron's position on Lance...he defends Hinault's record, trashes Lance's...what kinda logic is that? If he is so harsh on Armstrong claiming him a fraud 2 days ago...how can he see Hinault's career is anything less than a fraud?

how can you constanly defend armstrong yet seem to blast everyone else? hinault was a cyclist who tried to win with style. armstrong is a bully who won the tour 7 times by buying up the opposition and getting them all to ride for just him. i hope armstrong gets blitzed not just by contador, but schleck, sastre and nibali too

dave_1

haven't read your reply Aurelio...two riders two dopers...both should be treated the same

kozzo

Hinault...
Typical mid-age crisis...

moray_gub

micron wrote:

Agreed French fighter - when Armstrong can match those palmares, not to mention Hinault's panache - then maybe he can call one of the indisuptably greatest riders of all time a 'wanker'

Armstrong is awfully thin skinned, isn't he - he seems to be capable of throwing a full on diva strop at the drop of a slightly less than flattering remark.

I find the contradictions and fawning over BH here quite amusing, after all BH on the bike was a right crabbit git and the last patron of the peleton probably. He saw nothing wrong with shooting out the peleton to put the brakes on a few chancers looking to make a break and give them a good old earful and fully displaying the panache you speak of. He makes Lance look like a schoolboy in that respect yet still Lance gets called the dominating bully by the anti lance fanboys .............laughable so it is. For what its worth i am a huge Hinault fan one of the all time greats but i dont fawn over him so much that i cant see what he was like on a bike

moray_gub

stefrees wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

was merely pointing the sheer inconsistency in Micron's position on Lance...he defends Hinault's record, trashes Lance's...what kinda logic is that? If he is so harsh on Armstrong claiming him a fraud 2 days ago...how can he see Hinault's career is anything less than a fraud?

how can you constanly defend armstrong yet seem to blast everyone else? hinault was a cyclist who tried to win with style. armstrong is a bully who won the tour 7 times by buying up the opposition and getting them all to ride for just him. i hope armstrong gets blitzed not just by contador, but schleck, sastre and nibali too

Isnt that what TDF winners do with team mates though get them to ride just for them ? BTW Hinault was a brilliant rider and one the biggest bullies of the day.

Kléber

Sounds like he's had a bit too much Breton cider. Still, it's highly entertaining stuff. Here he is on race radios:

I am against them. It is only a Game Boy with a gigolo at the end who tells the rider when he must go and piss. With Guimard, we studied the map and the winds on the morning of the stage.

That made me laugh.

He's clearly an outspoken guy. Perhaps the difference between his role as "patron" (boss in French) of the bunch and Armstrong was that Armstrong's authority over cycling in general has been conducted via the media, by blacklisting journalists and restricting access, plus the threat of legal action, rather than by the ability to single-handedly reel in moves, except the personal spat with Simoni. But the quote about Armstrong is just one amongst many, the others on the receiving end of the Badger's wisdom are unlucky to twitter back with insults, I wouldn't turn this into a whole Hinault vs Armstrong thing.

LangerDan

In the edition of ProCycling which was guest-edited by LeMond, Greg made some comment to the effect that, apart from an agressive streak a mile wide, BH didn't have a whole lot going on upstairs and had thrown away several good results due to his desire to attack needlessly rather than think tactically.

jerry3571

Blimey! Just read this lot. Didn't know anyone liked Hinault. I didn't know anyone cared. Hinault is always saying that French riders should go faster. Hmmm...wonder what that means. :roll:
The French Teams, it seems to me, want to ride with a bit less sugar in their drinks; the sponsors are happy for them to be on telly but not a win at all costs; meaning don't get busted for doping.
I think this attitude gets up Hinault's nose because he is a bit of a hard nosed character who tries to win at all costs.

I think the people here are a little disingenuous saying that Armstrong was a one trick Pony. He beat anyone who was put in front of him. There were no riders who came out and took on Armstrong and won on the biggest stage in the world. The only one to take him on in the big head stakes was Gibi Simoni after his Giro victory and after cracking in the French Mountains, the Italian turned the volume down and went home.
Armstrong wasted Pantani, Zuelle, Ullrich, Virenque. Basso and anyone who was around in that seven year period. The Tour is the main event. Armstrong was the best Tour rider for sure and he was un beaten in 7 years. Before that, he won a few small time Classics and the Worlds; but what is that.
Did someone say Armstrong knows nothing of French teams. Talk to him about Cofidis and I'm sure he'll have something to say.


PS- Not sure whether Hinault would have won his last Tour if Lemond wasn't on side either.

PPS- Armstrong is a tricky bloke to like with his hard head but he is a walk in the park compared to the Frenchman. Hence The Badger.

Ciao Jerry

flattythehurdler

Moray Gub wrote:

micron wrote:

Agreed French fighter - when Armstrong can match those palmares, not to mention Hinault's panache - then maybe he can call one of the indisuptably greatest riders of all time a 'wanker'

Armstrong is awfully thin skinned, isn't he - he seems to be capable of throwing a full on diva strop at the drop of a slightly less than flattering remark.

I find the contradictions and fawning over BH here quite amusing, after all BH on the bike was a right crabbit git and the last patron of the peloton probably. He saw nothing wrong with shooting out the peloton to put the brakes on a few chancers looking to make a break and give them a good old earful and fully displaying the panache you speak of. He makes Lance look like a schoolboy in that respect yet still Lance gets called the dominating bully by the anti lance fanboys .............laughable so it is. For what its worth i am a huge Hinault fan one of the all time greats but i dont fawn over him so much that i cant see what he was like on a bike

I would say that lance waws the last patron. Don't recall BH ever getting his henchmen to gob all over someone on the Champs d'Elysees for an innocuous and truthful statement.