Think i've hit another training plateau... What to do???
Bhima
Posts: 2,145
Only just returned to cycling after a 4-week break and I immediately feel like i've hit the wall!
My top-end fitness has returned but I don't feel like I can push any further!
Tried a few 5 miles TTs but, even though I put 100% in to them, it always feels like I could have put more in afterwards, because my legs weren't getting smashed to pieces, like they used to.
There's no overtraining involved and, as far as I know, i've never bonked. I go through 1L of liquid & 3 bananas per hour and in the past few days my legs have felt amazing, even though i'm doing pretty similar training to 6 weeks ago.
Took a day off yesterday and i've just been out today. Don't feel in pain at all.
Felt a similar thing ages ago and I can't remember what I did to progress forward. :oops:
Should I just go out and do something radical? eg. Double the milage? Climb the Cat & Fiddle 10 times?
My top-end fitness has returned but I don't feel like I can push any further!
Tried a few 5 miles TTs but, even though I put 100% in to them, it always feels like I could have put more in afterwards, because my legs weren't getting smashed to pieces, like they used to.
There's no overtraining involved and, as far as I know, i've never bonked. I go through 1L of liquid & 3 bananas per hour and in the past few days my legs have felt amazing, even though i'm doing pretty similar training to 6 weeks ago.
Took a day off yesterday and i've just been out today. Don't feel in pain at all.
Felt a similar thing ages ago and I can't remember what I did to progress forward. :oops:
Should I just go out and do something radical? eg. Double the milage? Climb the Cat & Fiddle 10 times?
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You need to get a powertap and this book -
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Training-Racing ... 1931382794
The program in the back of that is awesome...
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Harder, further, faster, more "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
To progress, just ride regularly and push bigger gears Bhima - for me personally, that's about the size of it - when you race, you have to be able to do it anyway (big gears) - so might aswell get the body used to it in training - if you're currently pushing 65-70 inches on the flat try pushing 70-75 inches? - the more you do it, the more your body adapts to the demands. If it was me personally, I wouldn't double the mileage - just ride regularly, ride uphill more and push bigger gears.0
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I'd recommend this - not a quick fix (read it then spend 2 or 3 hours trying to work out how you should apply it!!) - but definately, definately the way forward for people who don't feel they they are progressing. If only for testing protocols to prove how lazy you are (guilty yer honor...) http://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1931382212"And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
- eccolafilosofiadelpedale0 -
I'll check out the books, cheers guys.
Mettan wrote:To progress, just ride regularly and push bigger gears Bhima - for me personally, its that simpleShockedSoShocked wrote:Harder, further, faster, more
Yes, I agree, but it's not as simple as that! I did a TT effort today and I usually spin out small gears as I can go for a lot longer doing that, but I absolutely grinded my way round 8 miles at about 85 RPM and it felt brutally painful at the time. I was going 100% for the full 19 minutes in the hope that I would be too tired to walk the next day... Every time I assessed how much effort I was putting in, I thought "bollocks to this, i'm going to up the power even more"... I deffo went all-out!
Problem is, 5 minutes later, I could have done the exact same TT again - my legs were soooo fresh it was beyond any kind of logic! :?+:D I felt disappointed that I could have put more effort in, but looking back, I really really really couldn't have put any more in to it. :shock: As soon as I finished, I was out of breath, collapsed on the grass, struggling to peel a banana! 4 minutes later, i'm fine! :?:
Had other things to do, so didn't have time to have another go, but I sprinted all the way home and it felt great! I'm happy that my legs recover so quickly but i'm just baffled as to why this has suddenly happened - when 6 weeks ago, the same 8 miles around 22/23mph pace would have killed me! :?
This is the main reason why I need a power meter ASAP! It would allow me to see my progress on a graph, which would be a lot more help than average speed figures or how I "feel".
I'm going to double up the TT tomorrow and do a 16-miler. Never thought i'd say this but, hopefully, i'll feel like crap after it! I've always associated "feeling like crap" with progress - no pain, no gain and all that - so it's frustrating when you feel like you're not progressing at all, especially when your legs feel as light as feathers and it does not translate into your TT times improving!
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Ridiculous thread, one minute you have hit a plateau, the next you are faster than you were 6 weeks ago.
One minute you are suffering so bad you can't peel a banana (euphemism?), but then you say:
which is it?it always feels like I could have put more in afterwards, because my legs weren't getting smashed to pieces, like they used to.
How can you expect progress in 6 weeks? and now that you've done an 8m TT, you're going to do a 16mTT tomorrow?
This is not a plateau, this is you being stupid. Chill out and just ride your fking bike.0 -
Great if you know what you are doing with it (and having just got one I can tell you that I don't - yet!), but otherwise just a load more info to bamboozle and confuse you. Some proper coaching would probably do you a lot more benefit in the short term.Bhima wrote:This is the main reason why I need a power meter ASAP!0 -
I'm thinking of alternating my weeks between hilly and none hilly, I've being ovettraining, done 3 hillys rides with 1 rest day inbetween, but I've never felt I've hit a plateau, some days I'm crap, some days I think I'm damn good I manage to fly up some hills but like tuesday I was crawling snails pace up most hills.
No need for a power meter really unless you can easilly afford it.
I cant help but think you force 1 litre of water down and the same with the bananas if you eat 3 an hour without fail.
If you are doing a TT then at least do 10 mile, if you've being doing 5 miles they are too east, I managed to average about 23mph on a 5 mile TT when I was allot slower than I am now, I think 16 is abit of an odd number lol, try 25. And maybe get a garmin or something so you can upload your lap times for us to see.
I'm inexperienced but that's what I think.
But from my experience banging out the miles every day and doing crap loads might result in performance problems months ahead, I'm sure that is what happened to me, I'm taking regular days off now, at first banging miles out every day did not effect me but now I cant do it.0 -
Bronzie wrote:
Great if you know what you are doing with it (and having just got one I can tell you that I don't - yet!), but otherwise just a load more info to bamboozle and confuse you. Some proper coaching would probably do you a lot more benefit in the short term.Bhima wrote:This is the main reason why I need a power meter ASAP!
Bronzie, you need to get the book of all books - training and racing with a power meter by allen / coggan. It explains everything and has a briliiant training program in the back. I was following this for the three months before the fall and I and improved my hour long max power by around 50%!!0 -
I go through 1L of liquid & 3 bananas per hour
And you are suprised you go so slowly? Sheesh you must spend all your time about vomit with that quantity of water and food in your stomach.
WTF is a power meter going to tell you when you can't understand the basics of cadence, speed, distance and HR. Calm down join a club, do some proper offical 10TT and 25TTs then re-assess.0 -
Yeah, got the book and I'm still trying to get to grips with it all. Early days still for me.NapoleonD wrote:Bronzie, you need to get the book of all books - training and racing with a power meter by allen / coggan. It explains everything and has a briliiant training program in the back. I was following this for the three months before the fall and I and improved my hour long max power by around 50%!!
The point I was trying to make is that a powermeter is not a magic wand. You still have to:
a) put in the hours on the bike
b) know what all this wonderful new data is telling you and what to change in order to get the improvements you need to hit your targets
I just get the impression from reading some of Bhima's posts that a decent club-level coach could get him going in the right direction much faster than all the internet fishing.0 -
What you are saying is that you had 4 weeks off and now you are feeling stronger
This is not surprising
You go on to say that you are finding it difficult to get to a painful level of overload
You don't mention explictly it but I think you are blaming your lack of progress (better times etc) on the lack of feelings of pain
If you want to feel pain again, it's all in the mind. Just think up some berserk training, repeat for 2 hours go out and do it.
Alternatively you could go the science route and try and do the power meter stuff. As I understand it, this will find your best overload zone with a ruthless efficency0 -
Bhima, come on a hilly ride with me sometimes, around 80ish miles, I can guarantee you'll be in pain after, alternatively, some of the wheelers rides will make sure you're in pain, well maybe.. :P 0
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Yep, I agree with Bronzie and NapoleanD, your posting is incoherent and inconsistent in how you are / aren't progressing.
You need proper informed advice because the words "headless chicken" spring to mind0 -
Slow1972 wrote:Yep, I agree with Bronzie and NapoleanD, your posting is incoherent and inconsistent in how you are / aren't progressing.
You need proper informed advice because the words "headless chicken" spring to mind
Get him on a chaingang and dish out some pain! 0 -
I assumed he was?!?
If not, chain gangs are a sure fire winner to improvement!0 -
Infamous wrote:Ridiculous thread, one minute you have hit a plateau, the next you are faster than you were 6 weeks ago.
Is it not possible that both are true? I'm baffled myself, I can't underdstand it - although I feel better than I was 6 weeks ago (after only riding properly for about 10 days now), i've literally ridden the same route everyday in the past week, harder and faster every time without feeling like each time was harder/easier. I'm used to getting fatigued after 2 days of hard riding but, because i'm not tired after 7 days, I assume i'm at some kind of plateau.vorsprung wrote:What you are saying is that you had 4 weeks off and now you are feeling stronger
This is not surprising
Why isn't it? The Bikeradar article on de-training says 2 weeks and more off will result in a performance decrease. I had 4 weeks off so I didn't expect to feel stronger after just 10 days of training.
Yes, that's right. But what exactly is "berserk training"?vorsprung wrote:You go on to say that you are finding it difficult to get to a painful level of overload
You don't mention explictly it but I think you are blaming your lack of progress (better times etc) on the lack of feelings of pain
If you want to feel pain again, it's all in the mind. Just think up some berserk training, repeat for 2 hours go out and do it.freehub wrote:Bhima, come on a hilly ride with me sometimes, around 80ish miles, I can guarantee you'll be in pain after, alternatively, some of the wheelers rides will make sure you're in pain, well maybe.. :P
When's your next hilly ride? The only day I can get out with the Wheelers is a Saturday, but, according to their website, they have miraculously stopped doing Saturday rides. I'd love to go out riding with them.
...and at everyone questioning my food/drink - I thought bananas and water were standard for a bike ride? If I have only 2 bananas an hour, I start to run out of energy and, with the weather i'm getting here, 1L of water/hr only just about works before I dehydrate.
A few clubs do chaingang rides which i've been meaning to attend. Always find out about them too late though. I may try to get out with the MCR Wheelers on Sunday for one, depending on the weather and other commitments...0 -
Bhima wrote:The only day I can get out with the Wheelers is a Saturday, but, according to their website, they have miraculously stopped doing Saturday rides. I'd love to go out riding with them.
"miraculously stopped doing Saturday rides"
Where the fook do you get that from? There might not be any rides down for a Saturday, but that doesn't mean they aren't done anymore.0 -
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Sorry, didn't see that.
I just saw that there wasn't one tomorrow, there wasn't one last week and it looks like there's not one next week!
Are they still going, but just not publicised?0 -
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Sunday there is a 60 mile ride from the gateway at 9:30am, the route is to be decided on the day.
Why cant you do Sunday?0 -
Work really late Saturday nights.
I can do Sundays - i'd just be mashed! I'll try my best to get down to either the Chaingang or 60-miler on Sunday.0 -
What is your job?0
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mclarent wrote:I'd recommend this - not a quick fix (read it then spend 2 or 3 hours trying to work out how you should apply it!!) - but definately, definately the way forward for people who don't feel they they are progressing. If only for testing protocols to prove how lazy you are (guilty yer honor...) http://www.amazon.com/Cyclists-Training-Bible-Joe-Friel/dp/1931382212
Good book for explaining periodization however there is a new version just out so get this one:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=27817
Just finished reading it. Quite prescriptive however gives a good overview of peridodization. His use of terminology can be confusing sometimes though. Definitely worth the read for anyone interested in structured training and how to bring that structure to your riding yourself.
I seen a good line in this months Cycling Plus which was something along the lines of if you don't know what the purpose of your session is then its not training its just you going for a bike ride. Just think of that and you can't help but question what your about to do. That's just me rambling now - was only here to point out the new version of the book before anyone spends money on the old version which is still the version on most sites 0 -
Good points though Doyler, riding the same circuit day in day out does not sound like much like a structured training plan to me.
Friel's book (i've got the older one) is worth a read, if nothing more it will make you realise there's more to it than battering yourself over a the same short TT circuit day in day out0 -
Bhima wrote:Sorry, didn't see that.
I just saw that there wasn't one tomorrow, there wasn't one last week and it looks like there's not one next week!
Are they still going, but just not publicised?
That's a benfit of being in a club and making friends rather than just reading forums...0 -
Bhima wrote:Sorry, didn't see that.
I just saw that there wasn't one tomorrow, there wasn't one last week and it looks like there's not one next week!
Are they still going, but just not publicised?
Well it is the middle of the racing season? A chain gang generally isn't the best idea the day before a race...
You'd be better off getting a license yourself. If racing doesn't bring you on nothing will."A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"
PTP Runner Up 20150 -
Yep, the chain gangs we're running at the moment on weekends are intro's for club riders who haven't got into racing yet, so they get members used to through and off and bunch riding in the line but aren't at full tilt. Mixed in are riders with a bit more experience who for whatever reason that day aren't racing or just want a training ride.
But to be fair to Bhima the club has other general club runs throughout the summer as well organised by members who aren't racing.0
