Are we missing something?
aurelio_-_banned
Posts: 1,317
Speaking Of Armstrong
Johan Bruyneel is unerringly confident in his longtime main man, Lance Armstrong. Armstrong looked solid in the Giro towards the end, but still nowhere near the Lance of old. I keep thinking we're missing something though, because I keep hearing these murmurs from riders and comments like this one from Bruyneel: "We have five weeks until the beginning of the Tour de France. That's enough to see a completely different Lance Armstrong at the start."
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fulls ... est%20News
I wonder what on earth Bruyneel thinks he can do to transform Armstrong into 'a completely different rider' in just 5 weeks? I wonder, is 'win' number 8 actually a possibility, given the, Ahem, correct pre-race 'preparation'?
Johan Bruyneel is unerringly confident in his longtime main man, Lance Armstrong. Armstrong looked solid in the Giro towards the end, but still nowhere near the Lance of old. I keep thinking we're missing something though, because I keep hearing these murmurs from riders and comments like this one from Bruyneel: "We have five weeks until the beginning of the Tour de France. That's enough to see a completely different Lance Armstrong at the start."
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fulls ... est%20News
I wonder what on earth Bruyneel thinks he can do to transform Armstrong into 'a completely different rider' in just 5 weeks? I wonder, is 'win' number 8 actually a possibility, given the, Ahem, correct pre-race 'preparation'?
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Well, to start with he needs to inject some joie de vivre, he will be booed out of France if he doesn't learn to relax and smile a bit. The media boycott in Italy included the French correspondents despatched to follow the race and they will have little time for him if he doesn't open up a bit.0
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Kléber wrote:Well, to start with he needs to inject some joie de vivre, he will be booed out of France if he doesn't learn to relax and smile a bit. The media boycott in Italy included the French correspondents despatched to follow the race and they will have little time for him if he doesn't open up a bit.
I can't imagine him not opening up at the Tour. Or maybe he's trying some new head game
with everybody. In any case he is usually very aggressive in his pursuit of what he wants or at least that's my feeling. And yes, I don't know him. Maybe Bruyneels "completely different Lance....." is just part of the game they all try to play with each other. After all, even the smallest "advantage"(for lack of a better word)is always useful.0 -
aurelio wrote:Speaking Of Armstrong
Johan Bruyneel is unerringly confident in his longtime main man, Lance Armstrong. Armstrong looked solid in the Giro towards the end, but still nowhere near the Lance of old. I keep thinking we're missing something though, because I keep hearing these murmurs from riders and comments like this one from Bruyneel: "We have five weeks until the beginning of the Tour de France. That's enough to see a completely different Lance Armstrong at the start."
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fulls ... est%20News
What on earth can Bruyneel and co. do to transform Armstrong into 'a completely different rider' in just 5 weeks? I wonder, is 'win' number 8 actually a possibility, given the, Ahem, correct pre-race 'preparation'?
So he was riding the Giro clean then?Le Blaireau (1)0 -
The Giro maybe a bluff on a much grander scale than the 2001 alpe d'huez effort, you never know...0
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Who knows? Perhaps he wasn't 'fully jacked', a sensible policy if his real goal is the Tour and he was treating the Giro as preparation.DaveyL wrote:So he was riding the Giro clean then?
On a similar theme, Basso might well have been riding clean, given Cycling Weekly's observations:
GIRO D'ITALIA TOP 10 PREDICTION
1 Ivan Basso
5th
We said: Remember the 2006 Giro? When he rode up every mountain with his mouth shut, breathing through his skin, pursued only by a buffalo on heat?
Verdict: This was not the same Basso as 2006. He struggled to rediscover his effortless high-cadence style and it looked like it hurt.0 -
5 weeks is a long time to transform someone like LA from a 12th place finisher to a podium finisher. Mostly though I would guess they are putting him on a diet. 8)0
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Pokerface wrote:5 weeks is a long time to transform someone like LA from a 12th place finisher to a podium finisher.)
You say that there as if a rider has never been average in the Giro and done well in the TDF, there are numerous examples of that over the years but hey its LA so lets forget all about whats went before.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Kléber wrote:Well, to start with he needs to inject some joie de vivre, he will be booed out of France if he doesn't learn to relax and smile a bit. The media boycott in Italy included the French correspondents despatched to follow the race and they will have little time for him if he doesn't open up a bit.
Is that not what you and a lot of press and cycling community folks wanted though ? cake and eat it time again methinks..............Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:Pokerface wrote:5 weeks is a long time to transform someone like LA from a 12th place finisher to a podium finisher.)
You say that there as if a rider has never been average in the Giro and done well in the TDF, there are numerous examples of that over the years but hey its LA so lets forget all about whats went before.
I'm on your side pal! And 12th place isn't exactly average.0 -
I can't see him winning it, but I can see him finishing higher than he did at the Giro and I can see a battle of wills with Contador for team leader, ending on the 2nd mountain top finish when Lance has to limit his loses to Contador and admit (privately to JB) that he won't be able to do it.
I agree that the Giro was probably a sandbagging exercise, but 12th wasn't shabby and it was a serious training camp for LA. He's also got Levi right where he wants him now too.0 -
Anything is possible. He's won the race 7 times before - and the Giro was his first serious race after his collar bone break.
I wouldnt bet against him making the podium - anything can happen. Certainly I'd expect him to be doing a fair bit better than 12th, - so inside the top 10 ?0 -
I don't think he is going to go any better...
there you go.... hat in the ring.....
top ten at a push depends who turns up.
as for LA "did he didn't he" dope at the Giro thing
its a no win situation"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Of course it is. But it was nice to get aurelio to write something other than a statement that LA was doped to the gills. Who'd a thought it?Le Blaireau (1)0
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I didn't see anything that suggests he could hang onto Contador in rampant climbing form - he couldn't even hang onto Pelizotti on a steady climb and his TT results weren't exactly stellar.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
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Was Armstrong in the GIro to win it? I think Armstrong will be a totally different rider in the Tour.0
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Clemson Cycling wrote:Was Armstrong in the GIro to win it? I think Armstrong will be a totally different rider in the Tour.
agree.
We might need an emergency line for aurelio.
There's a bunch of books coming out about LA, funny timing.
more he said/she said, yadda yadda, trying to get their cash of the comeback...0 -
Arkibal wrote:Clemson Cycling wrote:Was Armstrong in the GIro to win it? I think Armstrong will be a totally different rider in the Tour.
agree.
We might need an emergency line for aurelio.
There's a bunch of books coming out about LA, funny timing.
more he said/she said, yadda yadda, trying to get their cash of the comeback...
I guess that's what happens when you become a celebrity. All kinds of people hanging on to your shirttails trying to make a dollar off your name. Can't blame them though.
Seems to be millions of people more than willing to pay to find out if these people put
their left or right leg in their pants first. Or whether they put their pants on first and then
put the belt in the loops or belt into loops first, then pants on.0 -
Or even to find out just how much evidence there is showing that they really are guilty of 'the greatest fraud in the history of the sport', to paraphrase Greg Lemond.dennisn wrote:Seems to be millions of people more than willing to pay to find out if these people put their left or right leg in their pants first. Or whether they put their pants on first and then put the belt in the loops or belt into loops first, then pants on. 0 -
aurelio wrote:
Or even to find out just how much evidence there is showing that they really are guilty of 'the greatest fraud in the history of the sport', to paraphrase Greg Lemond.dennisn wrote:Seems to be millions of people more than willing to pay to find out if these people put their left or right leg in their pants first. Or whether they put their pants on first and then put the belt in the loops or belt into loops first, then pants on.
My only problem with that is, there are few people who want to read about a
nice clean guy. Seems that most people want the "dirt" on celeb's. It just sells
better. Add to that the fact that if something is said enough it sort of becomes the "truth".
I don't see too many writers putting the, so called, "truth" about Lance, or anyone else,
on paper these days. They will write what sells, as their first priority. At least that's
my take on journalism in this day and age. More entertainment than real "news".
As for Greg, well, I don't know what his issues are these days. Not that I ever knew.
FWIW he doesn't seem to be doing himself much "good" in this country. It's almost become
"enough already". Anyway that's my take.0 -
And often the 'dirt' is also the truth.dennisn wrote:there are few people who want to read about a nice clean guy. Seems that most people want the "dirt" on celeb's. It just sells better.
And often that which is said often also happens to be, epistemologically speaking, true.dennisn wrote:Add to that the fact that if something is said enough it sort of becomes the "truth".
You clearly haven't read any of Walsh's books then...dennisn wrote:I don't see too many writers putting the, so called, "truth" about Lance, or anyone else,on paper these days.
An often, what they write, and what sells, is also the truth...dennisn wrote:They will write what sells, as their first priority.
Perhaps he just wants a cleaner sport. Perhaps he is pissed that powerful people in the sport in the US who have a vested interest in maintaining the doping omerta have crippled his business interests as 'punishment' for his speaking out.dennisn wrote:As for Greg, well, I don't know what his issues are these days. Not that I ever knew.
Yes, some people simply don't want to hear the truth...dennisn wrote:FWIW he doesn't seem to be doing himself much "good" in this country. It's almost become enough already". Anyway that's my take.0 -
aurelio wrote:
Or even to find out just how much evidence there is showing that they really are guilty of 'the greatest fraud in the history of the sport', to paraphrase Greg Lemond.dennisn wrote:Seems to be millions of people more than willing to pay to find out if these people put their left or right leg in their pants first. Or whether they put their pants on first and then put the belt in the loops or belt into loops first, then pants on.
It can only be the greatest fraud if you believe it to be the greatest comeback. Personally I'd put it about level with Lemond's comeback.
There's an argument to be made for the greatest sporting comeback being that of golfer Ben Hogan. They even made a film about him, "Follow The Sun".Le Blaireau (1)0 -
aurelio wrote:
And often the 'dirt' is also the truth.dennisn wrote:there are few people who want to read about a nice clean guy. Seems that most people want the "dirt" on celeb's. It just sells better.
And often that which is said often also happens to be, epistemologically speaking, true.dennisn wrote:Add to that the fact that if something is said enough it sort of becomes the "truth".
You clearly haven't read any of Walsh's books then...dennisn wrote:I don't see too many writers putting the, so called, "truth" about Lance, or anyone else,on paper these days.
An often, what they write, and what sells, is also the truth...dennisn wrote:They will write what sells, as their first priority.
Perhaps he just wants a cleaner sport. Perhaps he is pissed that powerful people in the sport in the US who have a vested interest in maintaining the doping omerta have crippled his business interests as 'punishment' for his speaking out.dennisn wrote:As for Greg, well, I don't know what his issues are these days. Not that I ever knew.
Yes, some people simply don't want to hear the truth...dennisn wrote:FWIW he doesn't seem to be doing himself much "good" in this country. It's almost become enough already". Anyway that's my take.
We seem to have very different levels of "faith" in journalist's / writers / news people.
Now that's putting it mildly. All I can say is "Oh well". Takes all kinds to make this world an interesting place. I say lets agree to disagree. And I do like the way Ayn Rand thought
about how things should be. Whew, glad I got that out in the open. I feel so much better coming "out of the closet". 0 -
I guess you are just one of those people who don't let the truth get in the way of what they want to believe...dennisn wrote:there are few people who want to read about a nice clean guy. Seems that most people want the "dirt" on celeb's. It just sells better.
It's Not About the Bike: My Journey Back to Life
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,163 in Books
From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France [BARGAIN PRICE]
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #110,963 in Books
Breaking the Chain: Drugs and Cycling: The True Story (Paperback) by Willy Voet
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #375,868 in Books0 -
The only 'faith' I have is in the quality of my own judgement. And this always based on a healthy dose of critical awareness, whoever I happen to be reading...dennisn wrote:We seem to have very different levels of "faith" in journalist's / writers / news people.0 -
aurelio wrote:
I guess you are just one of those people who don't let the truth get in the way of what they want to believe...dennisn wrote:there are few people who want to read about a nice clean guy. Seems that most people want the "dirt" on celeb's. It just sells better.
It's Not About the Bike: My Journey Back to Life
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #2,163 in Books
From Lance to Landis: Inside the American Doping Controversy at the Tour de France [BARGAIN PRICE]
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #110,963 in Books
Breaking the Chain: Drugs and Cycling: The True Story (Paperback) by Willy Voet
Amazon.com Sales Rank: #375,868 in Books
You could be right. Maybe I just don't want to hear it. Too depressing. I try to keep a good outlook on life. It doesn't help anyone if I'm always gloomy, especially me. My wife has a friend who calls her almost daily with a seemingly long dose of doom and gloom. Sad, but
sometimes you just want to slap her(the friend) and say move on with your life. Or at least take some Prozac. Not sure how that applies to anything but......
I will admit to being extremely sarcastic though. Drives the wife crazy. She says sarcasm
is just another form of anger. I believe her. But that's me.0 -
Dennis, like the right-wing lunacy of Rand, I feel that your view of cycle sport is both seriously confused and inherently irrational.dennisn wrote:You could be right. Maybe I just don't want to hear it. Too depressing. I try to keep a good outlook on life.
You say that you 'try to keep a good outlook on life' but at the same time apparently go around believing that journalists wouldn't know what the truth is if it ran them down and that all writers are in the business of grubbing up dirt on celebrities in order to make an easy buck! Rather contradictory, to say the least.
Personally I find the example set by those who have the will to try to uncover the truth, even when this brings them up against powerful vested interests who would rather that they keep quiet and when they could make far more money by writing some vacuous tome for the fan boys and ignorant, to be very life affirming.0 -
One of my problems is the difference between the absolute best of the amateurs and the professional peloton. I did the etape in 2006 from gap to briancon which went over Isoard lautaret and finished (me) on the Alpe. The winner that day, a lad called blaise sonnery (iirc) must have been one of the elite amateurs in europe. He rode in a group until the Alpe, and so ha dthe benefit of cycling in a bunch for most of the stage. In the tour, it was the third hard day in the hills in a row, and his time would have seen him eliminated for being so far outside the Tour stage winner's time.
In most sports, in my experience, the difference between the very best amateurs, and the professionals is not that great.Dan0 -
aurelio wrote:
Dennis, like the right-wing lunacy of Rand, I feel that your view of cycle sport is both seriously confused and inherently irrational.dennisn wrote:You could be right. Maybe I just don't want to hear it. Too depressing. I try to keep a good outlook on life.
You say that you 'try to keep a good outlook on life' but at the same time apparently go around believing that journalists wouldn't know what the truth is if it ran them down and that all writers are in the business of grubbing up dirt on celebrities in order to make an easy buck! Rather contradictory, to say the least.
Can't imagine why you seem so threatened by a book. Would you have it burned?
My view of "cycle sport"? Fun to watch and fun to work the races. Used to enjoy a bit
of racing myself. As for the pros, well, like any pro sport, cycling has it's problems but I
tend not to pay all that much attention to the pro athletes themselves. They sort of bore me
but I'm not sure why. As for Ayn and Lance, you find burning the both of then at the stake a great idea, I'm sure. As far as I'm concerned journalist are pretty much in that same type of group. But I may have a valid point about all of us. i.e. the old saying "we're all whores, it's just the price we're haggling about".0 -
Does anyone get sick of all this he said she said in terms of Lance Armstrong. He was never caught and never will be caught, and has done more then any other rider to grow the popularity of the sport in the US and brought hope and strength to millions that were fighting for their lives. Did he dope, well I feel he was always on the line of what is legal (I think there is a real possibility that every rider that has won the tour since Lemond in 1991 pushed the limit of what is legal). Did his main competition dope, yes and they got caught (and Lance still beat the crap out of them in the tour). This forum and the cycling community in general is obsessed with this man (love him or hate him). Lets just see how he does at 37 in the Tour and lets see what he does in the future.0
