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non-dairy recovery drink/food?

neebneeb Posts: 4,448
I've started thinking that I should take recovery nutrition more seriously. Today I bought a standard recovery drink powder but to be honest it tastes vile to me, possibly because it is milk protein based and I've never much liked milk. Also, while I do eat and really enjoy some cheese, (also fish) my diet isn't particularly high in dairy or animal protein and on reflection I think I'd like to keep it that way. If I use a milk-based recovery drink every time I ride I'm going to seriously up my dairy intake, and there seems to be some evidence that excessive dairy consumption over long periods isn't particularly good for your health. So, what's the best vegan recovery food/drink? (not that I'm vegan). I've heard that chocolate soy milk works, or I was also thinking just bananas + a handful of nuts. I know torq does a vegan recovery package but it looks like a rip off.

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  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    I just tried dates, because they are supposed to be absorbed quicker than pure glucose (Glycemic Index: 108). The quicker you get those carbs into your muscles as glycogen, the better. I must say, 3 hours on, my legs feel pretty fresh... :shock:

    3x200g pack for £1 down the local shop - 147g of rapid-working carbs per 200g pack (more than enough to replace glycogen stores).
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    I just tried dates, because they are supposed to be absorbed quicker than pure glucose (Glycemic Index: 108). The quicker you get those carbs into your muscles as glycogen, the better. I must say, 3 hours on, my legs feel pretty fresh... Shocked

    3x200g pack for £1 down the local shop - 147g of rapid-working carbs per 200g pack (more than enough to replace glycogen stores).

    Nice idea. The supermarket here sells compressed bricks of dates that come from Iran. You can actually slice the stuff (with a very sharp knife) so it would also be ideal for the jersey pocket...
  • planktonplankton Posts: 78
    edited June 2009
    Dates keep well and are easy to store if you are out all day too. They also breakdown well so are easy to eat with a little water and are easier on the stomach to digest so less chance of cramps or windypops :)
  • EdwinEdwin Posts: 785
    I couldn't believe that a food with a fair amount of fibre could have a higher GI value than pure glucose, but you could be right. I had to google this and got various values from 35 to 103 - it seems a lot depends on the variety of date.
    I agree that carbs are more important than protein for recovery, but if you do want a good non-diary source then egg white powder or soy protein products are available from supplement websites, or Holland and Barrett etc, mainly aimed at the bodybuilding market.
    The soy stuff tastes OK, but has a consistency similar to drinking chalk dust. Egg white has a higher biological value, but tends to give you rotten guts. Not a great choice there.
    You should be able to get enough protein through normal food with a careuful diet, but having said that I'm working my way through a tub of the Zipvit rapide stuff, which is quite nice.
    What about stuff like Qorn / Tofu etc? I used to be veggie, and still like tofu even though I eat meat now as well.
  • simon_esimon_e Posts: 1,701
    Soya chocolate milk drink (<£1 for a litre at the big supermarkets and yummy).
    Hard-boiled eggs.
    A banana with low fat natural yoghurt.
    Mackerel, tuna or salmon.

    I know most of these aren't vegan. Some knowledgeable folks over at http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/

    A few people rate High5 drinks but I've not tried them. I'm slightly suspicious of the claims made by the big brands (SIS, Zipvit, Torq etc). Take a look at http://www.myprotein.co.uk/ for similar products.

    Have you searched the forums? Plenty of suggestions there - 80 matches for 'recovery food' in Road category.

    A Bikeradar article:
    http://www.bikeradar.com/road/fitness/a ... ery--18650
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • scapaslowscapaslow Posts: 305
    You could try "Oatly" which is a drink made from oats and water. No dairy or soya. No cholesterol, low fat.

    They do a chocolate version which i got from Morrisons (the wholefood/free from section) and it is absolutely delicious. Even the kids love it.

    I think it was £1.50 for 1 litre.

    It's maybe a bit low on protein for a recovery drink - i've never used it as such.I've only just "discovered" it. But with a handful of nuts or similar it might do the trick, but this type of protein would take longer to be absorbed than whey.

    It has 1g of protein and 9.5g of carbs per 100ml. A typical recovery drink would have around 1:4 protein to carbs.

    So it might be a good base for experimentation. It really does taste great.
  • ArroyoDaveArroyoDave Posts: 49
    You could try High 5 protein recovery drink. They have some which mix with just water and some which mixes with both milk and water.
    With the heat here in Spain you need more water after a ride so they are perfect.
    I actually ride for a team which is sponsored by another energy/recovery etc drink company,but prefer to buy my own High 5.
    Check out chain reaction cycles they stock it.
    Myprotein referral code mp288135 (get money off)
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    Thanks for all the tips.

    I'm leaning towards chocolate soya milk, as I've heard it has about the same balance of protein and carbs as dairy chocolate milk. Of course there is tofu combined with carbs such as bananas, dates etc, but there is something to be said for having a big tub / bottle of something on the shelf / in the fridge. I just don't think I'd be organised enough to always have the ingredients for a post-ride snack to hand 5 mins after riding unless it is something simple and preferably with a decent shelf life... Meals of course are a different matter; I can take my time planning and cooking those though! :wink:
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    You could try High 5 protein recovery drink
    Do they do a non-dairy version?
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,038
    I know it dont sound the bees knees.. but you can get bulk powder pea protein isolate or slightly in price organic hemp protein.... using these powders to make up your own recovery formula.. lots cheaper than premixed stuff or branded mixes..
    anyways this avoids using milk/whey or caseinate proteins
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    Just looked at the nutritional panels on the sides of some cartons of chocolate milk and chocolate soya milk. At first I was confused, as neither of these products actually has a great deal of protein in them (about 3g per 100g).. Then I realised (or remembered) that the reason chocolate milk is touted as a recovery drink is because of the particular carb mix and its capacity to be absorbed quickly, and that chocolate soya milk is supposed to be very comparable in this sense.

    So it strikes me that the ideal thing would be to add a bit of soya protein isolate or pea protein isolate to soya milk (I assume these powders are soluble?)
  • EdwinEdwin Posts: 785
    Yep, they are soluble so that would work. I often do a homemade recovery drink consisting of a cheap chocolate milkshake, a few scoops of generic whey protein and a banana chucked in a blender.
    For a non-dairy version water, bananas, soy protein powder and maybe some sugar or glucose/maltodextrin etc would do the job. There's nothing magic about this stuff, you mainly just need simple carbs down your neck as soon as you finish exercising. There is research that shows protein helps, but you don't need a huge amount. You could probably get the protein from normal food. Although I do use recovery drinks I always have sandwches and stuff in the car to eat after a race, as I need something savoury after all those sickly energy gels.
    In fact, pigging out whilst driving home afterwards is normally the best part of a race!
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    Bought some chocolate soy milk and had it immediately after the ride yesterday - wow, it's delicious! Like chilled hot chocolate without the yucky milky taste. I also took a little bit of smoked tofu (cut into cubes, stick in microwave for 30secs), which again tastes great but in my case sat slightly uneasily in my stomach taken that soon after riding (it was a fast 40 miles). So, was thinking last night that I should just add a little pea or soy protein to the choc soy milk as planned...

    BUT - looking again at the contents of the choc soy milk... out of the carton it has 3.3g protein per 100ml and 9.6g sugar. That's already a 33.3% protein to carbs ratio. So maybe adding more protein isn't necessary? I had been confused because 3.3g is a very small percentage of 100ml, but I guess it's the ratio of protein to carbs that matters?

    The disgusting calcium caseinate recovery drink I bought recommends a 50g serving which contains 12.9g of protein and 34.1g of carbs. So if I take, say, 333ml of the choc soy milk (a third of the carton) I would get nearly 11g of protein and 31-32g carbs.

    Sorted! Now I just have to work out what to do with this foul yellow powder I paid 15 Euro for...
  • ArroyoDaveArroyoDave Posts: 49
    neeb wrote:
    You could try High 5 protein recovery drink
    Do they do a non-dairy version?



    Go to www.highfive.co.uk and check it out.
    Myprotein referral code mp288135 (get money off)
  • andrewjosephandrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    research in my cycle coach mag is saying that you get better carb use, hydration and recovery from a mix carbs and protein in a 4:1 ratio when used during exercise.

    I've bought high 5 4:1 mix and it seems to work well for me.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    As far as I can tell High 5 is based on whey protein, i.e. it contains significant quantities of concentrated dairy products whether or not you dissolve it in water or in milk. Nothing necessarily wrong with that of course and whey is recognised as being a good source of quickly absorbed proteins, but personally I would rather avoid greatly increasing my dairy intake by taking something like this several days a week. There is some evidence that diets rich in dairy products are not particularly healthy in the long term and the fact that I have had a pronounced adverse reaction to the taste of milk (but not cheese strangely enough) since I was about 7 years old makes me suspect that my body is trying to tell me something... I found the same thing with a dairy recovery drink I tried, there is just something in the taste that makes me gag!

    The high 5 protein recovery drink actually has a fairly high ratio of protein to carbs - about 1: 2.5. You often see recommendations of 1: 3 or 1: 4, but it seems to be controversial.

    Anyway, I'm getting on very well with the soya chocolate milk - 1: 3 protein to carb ratio, tastes great and does seem to make a difference!
  • andrewjosephandrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    After testing for alergies/sensitivities, I was informed that wheat and dairy products make my hayfever symptoms worse. (along with about 50 other things!)

    I have virtually cut out wheat and dairy since february and the difference is obvious.

    however, the high 5 4:1 drink I use is only on long rides (long for me anyway), so I'm not using everyday, probably only twice a week at the moment.

    I can't get on with the chocolate soya drink, though I'm using ordinary soya milk daily on cerials (not wheat).
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    I've just had a thought - what about pure honey? :shock:

    Quite high GI and a balance of Glucose & Fructose.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    I've just had a thought - what about pure honey? Shocked

    Quite high GI and a balance of Glucose & Fructose.
    Only contains tiny amounts of protein. Of course it is the carbs that are by far the most important thing with a recovery food, but there does seem to be some evidence that 1 part protein to 3 or 4 parts carbs helps muscle repair after strenuous exercise.
  • simon_esimon_e Posts: 1,701
    Almonds have good protein and mineral levels and no sat.fat or lactose. Soak them for a few hours then eat straight or liquidise to make an almond milk, which you could sweeten with agave syrup or apple juice.

    Soaking nuts and seeds apparently releases enzymes (or some such stuff, I wasn't paying attention) and is popular with those into raw food (some raw food FAQs [url=http://www.living-foods.com/faq.htmlhere[/url]).
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • Johnny GJohnny G Posts: 348
    Simon E wrote:
    Some knowledgeable folks over at http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/

    And some of them are even more, er, opinionated than folks on here - see the fifth post down on this thread:
    http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18541

    Quote:

    "Does anybody know the nutritional breakdown on a piece of human flesh?

    Suppose it will vary depending on what part of the body it comes from.

    Fact is that Man is the Nazi of the species' when it comes to his treatment of other earthlings and has no right to use other living species as 'commodoties' no matter what there nutritional breakdown.
    This so called civilised society is full of peasants and barbarians whose laws should be shown no respect-They legitamise murder and rape for their diets and business practices.

    MEAT IS MURDER
    DAIRY IS RAPE
    and THE PAEDOPHILE SAYS THAT JUICES OF THE YOUNG TASTE FAR BETTER THAN THEM OF THE MATURE"


    Struth! :shock:

    Good job the Smiths didn't choose the second statement as an album title instead of the first, eh?
  • planktonplankton Posts: 78
    Jeebus.
    Someones a bit cook coo. :shock:
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    neeb wrote:
    I've just had a thought - what about pure honey? Shocked

    Quite high GI and a balance of Glucose & Fructose.
    Only contains tiny amounts of protein. Of course it is the carbs that are by far the most important thing with a recovery food, but there does seem to be some evidence that 1 part protein to 3 or 4 parts carbs helps muscle repair after strenuous exercise.

    Mix it up with natural yoghurt!
  • simon_esimon_e Posts: 1,701
    Johnny G wrote:
    Simon E wrote:
    Some knowledgeable folks over at http://www.veganfitness.net/forum/
    And some of them are even more, er, opinionated than folks on here
    There are a few that take it all too seriously*, but I only search for answers the usual places don't address - like on here. I don't comb through looking for stuff I don't like, just dip into useful threads. I have a life, and I'm aware that for a significant number of people they live to make noise, not necessarily to say anything useful.

    There may be other places where you can get a range of opinions from veggie/vegan athletes, but that's the only one I'm aware of.

    * Name me a public forum where that doesn't happen. Go on, I dare you. I double-dare you :wink:
    Aspire not to have more, but to be more.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    Mix it up with natural yoghurt!
    Fermented milk I believe... :D

    Can't stand that either. Don't know what it is, but anything milky makes me gag. Maybe I'm slightly lactose intolerant or something, despite loving exotic cheeses (apparently cheese has less lactose than other dairy products).

    Milk is baby food, most mammals and some humans lose the ability to digest it after a certain age.
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    oops! Big BIG oops! Forgot this was a non-dairy thread! :oops:
  • pianomanpianoman Posts: 706
    If all else fails, try fillet steak, hand cut chips and low-carb beer :D

    Plenty of protein, loads of carbs and not too much fat.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    If all else fails, try fillet steak, hand cut chips and low-carb beer Very Happy

    Plenty of protein, loads of carbs and not too much fat.

    Fish & chips and a bottle of stout for me if we're going down that route. Low carb beer? Guinness is good for you! :D (although give me Titanic stout any day).
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