Cheapest 2.7kg tubs of SiS PSP22

salsajake

Where does anyone get theres from and how much do you pay? There seems to be a big discrepancy in price, and some of the cheaper ones don't look all that reputable. So he is your cheapest supplier that you have had no problem with and how much did you spend?

jibberjim

SiS PSP is not a particularly complicated formulation, and you can easily make it yourself from the basic ingredients. The unflavoured version is nothing but Fructose, Maltodextrin and Aspartame (regular sweetener buyable in any supermarket) and can be made yourself for well under 4 quid a kilo.

see my site for a recipe with amounts calculated.

Flavouring can easily be added using squash or fruit juice (dropping the fructose down in those situations)

salsajake

Cheers, might give that a try. So are you saying that for the PSP copy, I could omit the aspartane anyway as a sweetner, and just add some fruit juice?

I use it in the summer for a 17.5 mile commute each way, to pep me up and keep me going, but some slow release is useful to blend me into my work routine and keep energy levels up when I get home too.

Maybe a different blend would be even better, but happy to have a go at your copy

jibberjim

salsajake wrote:

Cheers, might give that a try. So are you saying that for the PSP copy, I could omit the aspartane anyway as a sweetner, and just add some fruit juice?

Yep, squash or fruit juice will have fructose in anyway, and I would definately try it without a sweetener, there's no benefit to the sweetener other than making it taste sweet (and weird in my opinion) and sweeteners do cause issues for some people.

Obviously if you're doing it with juice or squash it's not a strict copy as you get more simple sugars from the juice/squash and need to adjust. Basically fruit juice+maltodextrin is essentially a copy without the need to buy fructose or sweetener, and a slightly less convenient single powder mix.

robmanic1

Personally, I'd steer well clear of aspartame. The rest of the recipe looks good though.

http://www.dorway.com/

vorsprung

I have stopped using PSP 22 as it contains aspartame

all sports "dynamight" is basically just plain maltodextrine
http://www.allsports-online.co.uk/allsp ... =Dynamight

Hi5 is pretty good too

Any generic maltodextrine bulk powder is as good as PSP 22

salsajake

interesting stuff, and you guys could be saving me some money! 5kg of Dynamight is less than 2.7kg of PSP22. I will have a look around for a cheap supply of maltodextrine powder.

Jury seems to be out on aspartame according to the wikipedia entry, looks like the sort of thing various lobby groups would argue for and various others against. What is the most compelling thing against aspartame?

jibberjim

salsajake wrote:

Jury seems to be out on aspartame according to the wikipedia entry, looks like the sort of thing various lobby groups would argue for and various others against. What is the most compelling thing against aspartame?

Who cares what the jury says, it's not doing anything beneficial, so why have it? Why put anything in your body that at best achieves a slightly sweeter taste - add more fructose if you want that - and at worst causes all sorts of things.

salsajake

Agreed, but I have quarter of a tub of PSP22 to finish and was, until today, unaware that there were any issues with it! I tried to educate myself online but all I got was hopelessly biased arguments from one side or another. I'm not saying one of them was wrong, you can be biased and right, but for someone as clueless as to me to the issues, it just means I can't make an informed decision! Haven't had much time to look at it much today either.

If it is bad, then you need to avoid things its in too, such as diet drinks, which I'd like to warn my family about if its something with real merit.

jibberjim

salsajake wrote:

Agreed, but I have quarter of a tub of PSP22 to finish and was, until today, unaware that there were any issues with it! I tried to educate myself online but all I got was hopelessly biased arguments from one side or another.

Ah, in that case, there's certainly no conclusive evidence that says it's bad, and as you note it's consumed a lot by a lot of people so it's certainly not deadly. Like many things, including many good and tasty foods, in large enough quantities it's probably bad for you.

finishing off your PSP, and drinking the odd diet coke isn't likely to do you any real damage.

salsajake

good man

wicked

So is it the aspartane that makes me fart all the time?! :oops:

I think the missus is going to ban me from PSP 22 anyway so if that is the guilty party I could just make it with using squash for flavouring?

redddraggon

Plain Maltodextrin is even cheaper here:

http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-powders ... todextrin/

cookiemonster

+1 for myprotein.co.uk

get a tub of maltrodexin, a packet of fructose and a jar of electrolyte and you've got the equivalent of psp, "go" and the gels for the cost of the postage of SIS from wiggle

I mix it up with ribena to taste...

mclarent

*yawn* to this thread!

Anyway, 40% pure OJ (I like mine with bits) 60% Water. No need for additives.

salsajake

no need for additives if I want to feel like a beaten and hungry man for the rest of the day after a spirited ride, no.

kingstongraham

mclarent wrote:

*yawn* to this thread!

Anyway, 40% pure OJ (I like mine with bits) 60% Water. No need for additives.

So that is 88 calories per 500ml.

Maltodextrin mixed as per the Torq site for cooler weather = 256 calories per 500ml

Not saying which is right for you, but the Malto is probably about the same price (16p per 66grams for 500ml of water).

mclarent

KingstonGraham wrote:

mclarent wrote:

*yawn* to this thread!
Not saying which is right for you, but the Malto is probably about the same price (16p per 66grams for 500ml of water).

Unless you add fruit juice for the taste

vorsprung

mclarent wrote:

*yawn* to this thread!

Anyway, 40% pure OJ (I like mine with bits) 60% Water. No need for additives.

OJ is a bit heavy to carry refills on a 600km
Maltodextrine is much better for recovery than OJ

If there was a simple, organic, real food alternative, I'd use it. But there isn't

salsajake

I have 5kg of the stuff now, not tried it yet. But am planning to run just this stuff and see how I get on.

georgio15

vorsprung wrote:

I have stopped using PSP 22 as it contains aspartame

all sports "dynamight" is basically just plain maltodextrine
http://www.allsports-online.co.uk/allsp ... =Dynamight

Hi5 is pretty good too

Any generic maltodextrine bulk powder is as good as PSP 22

what has the fact that it contains aspartame got to do with anything? its a sweetener made of two essential amino acids.

arnie-77

quite a lot about aspartame on wikipedia, interesting reading, seems much of its bad image has been made up bull - even so it's not convinced me to go back to products that contain it, why bother when you can use High 5 / Torq and other similar products that IMO are better anyway...

Gav888

Ive never thought about making my own drinks or refills for the longer rides until I read this post, now I want to have a go

At present I use 50/50 OJ and water for my longer rides (2 - 3 hours) and it seems ok, sometimes I use 70/30 red bull with water and doesnt seem to make any difference over OJ. Once I just drunk red bull on its own to test it against plain water over a 1.5 hour ride, no difference??

I have always wondered if im getting less than I need as alot of sites recommend getting between 30g - 60g or carbs per hour, im consuming (I think) 25g for the Tesco brand of OJ im using mixed with water... will this give me less energy to ride with and would changing my drink to something in the 30g-60g per hour range help?

Having a look at http://jibbering.com/sports/drinks.html there are various recipes on there, and they all look good and there are some impressive savings, but which would I go for or is it trial and error. If so, how do you know if a drink doesnt work for you?

jibberjim

Gav888 wrote:

will this give me less energy to ride with and would changing my drink to something in the 30g-60g per hour range help?

It all depends on intensity, if you're pootling along, you don't need much at all, so no-one can really say without knowing more.

Gav888 wrote:

Having a look at http://jibbering.com/sports/drinks.html there are various recipes on there, and they all look good and there are some impressive savings, but which would I go for or is it trial and error. If so, how do you know if a drink doesnt work for you?

The idea of the different recipes was just me doing the calculations to replicate the commercial sports drinks, so if you know you like SIS say, you could simply swap to that recipe, and it would equate pretty similarly.

Personally I almost always use the Endurance Sports Mix, or a variety on it as I experiment, actually currently I've been mostly using Whey Protein rather than Soy, as although the science has suggested Soy is better during exercise, the differences are marginal, theoretical and Whey just tastes a whole lot better to me and I can take it unflavoured. Now it's getting hotter though, I will need to start increasing my electrolytes, either by adding to the drink, or using something like Hammer's Endurolytes.

As to deciding if something works or not, as I said it only applies had higher intensities, and working is there defined as the drink being palatable, providing enough calories, and not causing stomach problems.

The only way to do this is to test. If you're not working hard enough that at the end of your rides you're running out of energy, or even Bonked, then you can probably just continue with the orange juice, you really don't need many calories when taking it easy - they come from fat stores and can be easily made up other times of the day.

Gav888

jibberjim wrote:

Gav888 wrote:

will this give me less energy to ride with and would changing my drink to something in the 30g-60g per hour range help?

It all depends on intensity, if you're pootling along, you don't need much at all, so no-one can really say without knowing more.

Gav888 wrote:

Having a look at http://jibbering.com/sports/drinks.html there are various recipes on there, and they all look good and there are some impressive savings, but which would I go for or is it trial and error. If so, how do you know if a drink doesnt work for you?

The idea of the different recipes was just me doing the calculations to replicate the commercial sports drinks, so if you know you like SIS say, you could simply swap to that recipe, and it would equate pretty similarly.

Personally I almost always use the Endurance Sports Mix, or a variety on it as I experiment, actually currently I've been mostly using Whey Protein rather than Soy, as although the science has suggested Soy is better during exercise, the differences are marginal, theoretical and Whey just tastes a whole lot better to me and I can take it unflavoured. Now it's getting hotter though, I will need to start increasing my electrolytes, either by adding to the drink, or using something like Hammer's Endurolytes.

As to deciding if something works or not, as I said it only applies had higher intensities, and working is there defined as the drink being palatable, providing enough calories, and not causing stomach problems.

The only way to do this is to test. If you're not working hard enough that at the end of your rides you're running out of energy, or even Bonked, then you can probably just continue with the orange juice, you really don't need many calories when taking it easy - they come from fat stores and can be easily made up other times of the day.

Thanks for the quick reply. I should have said that when I ride I go as quick as I can for the duration of the ride, so im not riding at a relaxed pace. Also I do alot of intervals and hill climbs trying to increase my average speed.

I will have a go with the Endurance Sports Mix and have a play around to see what effect they have on me but to be honest ive never bonked but I do feel weak, if thats the right word for it??

I read somewhere that consuming too many carbs can have the same effect as too little, im wondering if maybe the drink is a bit weak, but im consuming too much food to compensate?

Edwin

You'll know if you are over-compensating with calories, as you will start getting fatter.
Consuming too many carbs during training could reduce your performance by making you feel sick mainly, or causing stomach cramps. Obviously gaining weight won't help either, so try to work out roughly how many you need for the type of training you are planning.
Carbohydrate also increase thirst (something to do with draining water from the gut, need to read up on this) so there's no point making the solution too strong.

jibberjim

Gav888 wrote:

I read somewhere that consuming too many carbs can have the same effect as too little, im wondering if maybe the drink is a bit weak, but im consuming too much food to compensate?

So you're eating quite a lot in addition to the OJ / Red Bull? That would explain not bonking

Yes, there's a limit to the amount of calories you can digest per hour when you're working at high intensities. It differs greatly depending on individuals, and the type of food. Sports food uses the Maltodextrin because it digests rapidly in high concentrations.

For example, an average person may be able to digest simple sugars in a 6% solution of water - which is similar to Orange juice, but can digest Maltodextrin in maybe a 15% or more solution. if the concentration is too high, say 16% with simple sugars, then it just sits in the stomach until there's more water etc. So yes you can eat too many carbs, and it's likely to cause stomach discomfort and harm performance potentially as the body diverts energies and water to digesting the food.

mclarent

vorsprung wrote:

mclarent wrote:

*yawn* to this thread!

Anyway, 40% pure OJ (I like mine with bits) 60% Water. No need for additives.

OJ is a bit heavy to carry refills on a 600km
Maltodextrine is much better for recovery than OJ

If there was a simple, organic, real food alternative, I'd use it. But there isn't

Yeah, definately agree, if I was doing that kind of distance I'd certainly need something easier to pack or do shop stops. I can do 100k on 1.5 litres OJ mix and a jam sandwhich (typically a rolling course at around 27kph average speed).

For recovery, I do smoothies - lovely!

Would be interested if anyone on here could comment on this story: http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/06/01/new.study.finds.lowfat.chocolate.milk.effective.post.exercise.recovery.aid.soccer.players

jibberjim

mclarent wrote:

Would be interested if anyone on here could comment on this story: http://esciencenews.com/articles/2009/06/01/new.study.finds.lowfat.chocolate.milk.effective.post.exercise.recovery.aid.soccer.players

Lots of studies have shown that a mix of protein and carbohydrate is more beneficial post recovery than pure carbohydrate. This has led to many milk and cereal based groups paying for "research" designed to show that milkshakes or breakfast cereals are good recovery food.

They are good reovery food, but the studies always pitch them up against a pure carbohydrate drink - something that is not sold as a recovery product, it's used during exercise. So the studies are not the most useful of research - but at least do they keep sports science departments funded such that they can hopefully do more useful stuff that isn't so designed to come up with a conclusion that is both known and promotes the researdh funders.

So yes, the evidence is pretty clear that milkshake works (ie protein + carbohydrate is good and better than just carbohydrate)

Personally, the need to keep the milk cold makes it somewhat impractical for any event you travel to.

Edwin

"Personally, the need to keep the milk cold makes it somewhat impractical for any event you travel to"

I just mix it up the night before and freeze it. On a hot day, it's just about right by the time I drink it after the race. If you are less of a cheapskate than me, then buy a cooler bag with some freezer packs, or a thermos would work if you can be bothered sterilising it after use.