Cavendish & “disrespect”

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Comments

  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    scottfrasernz wrote:
    And Petacchi got the better of him twice which made them very happy.

    Twice?


    Once.
  • enjoy_the_ride
    enjoy_the_ride Posts: 49
    Pokerface wrote:
    scottfrasernz wrote:
    And Petacchi got the better of him twice which made them very happy.

    Twice?


    Once.

    I wonder, if that puncture hadn't happened and Cav got stage 3 (?) would he have pulled out. The jersey would have been that much nearer. Unanswerable I suppose.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    enjoy_the_ride wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    scottfrasernz wrote:
    And Petacchi got the better of him twice which made them very happy.

    Twice?


    Once.

    I wonder, if that puncture hadn't happened and Cav got stage 3 (?) would he have pulled out. The jersey would have been that much nearer. Unanswerable I suppose.

    Puncture?


    Crash.
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    enjoy_the_ride wrote:
    I wonder, if that puncture hadn't happened and Cav got stage 3 (?) would he have pulled out. The jersey would have been that much nearer. Unanswerable I suppose.

    there's no jersey cav can win

    but related question - would he have stayed in the race if there was one, like the green jersey in le tour?

    and if so, then maybe the giro are disrespecting the sprinters expecting them to fight with di luca in the mountains (!) for a chance to stand on the podium....
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    avoidingmyphd wrote:
    enjoy_the_ride wrote:
    I wonder, if that puncture hadn't happened and Cav got stage 3 (?) would he have pulled out. The jersey would have been that much nearer. Unanswerable I suppose.

    there's no jersey cav can win

    but related question - would he have stayed in the race if there was one, like the green jersey in le tour?

    and if so, then maybe the giro are disrespecting the sprinters expecting them to fight with di luca in the mountains (!) for a chance to stand on the podium....

    Ermmmn..... yeah this is a sprinter's jersey in the Giro! The Ciclamino jersey which Di Luca is currently wearing...
  • avoidingmyphd
    avoidingmyphd Posts: 1,154
    i don't think the ciclamino jersey is like the sprinters jersey in le tour.

    le tour green jersey points distribution is rigged in favour of flat stages, so it's a sprinters' jersey.
    the ciclamino jersey is not rigged like this. it more genuinely rewards consistency, but this requires some mountains ability too. (hence di luca and menchov topping the table.)

    both have their plusses and minuses. my point was just that le tour offers cav something the giro doesn't, over and above the undeniable extra prestige.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I'd imagine the Italians are happy that Petacchi is losing rivals by the day. He is still in there isnt he ?
  • enjoy_the_ride
    enjoy_the_ride Posts: 49
    Pokerface wrote:
    enjoy_the_ride wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    scottfrasernz wrote:
    And Petacchi got the better of him twice which made them very happy.

    Twice?


    Once.

    I wonder, if that puncture hadn't happened and Cav got stage 3 (?) would he have pulled out. The jersey would have been that much nearer. Unanswerable I suppose.

    Puncture?


    Crash.

    Memory was concentrating on stage number, hence the quetsion mark. The point being though that it wasn't Petacchi who got the better of Cav on that occassion.
  • enjoy_the_ride
    enjoy_the_ride Posts: 49
    avoidingmyphd wrote:
    i don't think the ciclamino jersey is like the sprinters jersey in le tour.

    le tour green jersey points distribution is rigged in favour of flat stages, so it's a sprinters' jersey.
    the ciclamino jersey is not rigged like this. it more genuinely rewards consistency, but this requires some mountains ability too. (hence di luca and menchov topping the table.)

    both have their plusses and minuses. my point was just that le tour offers cav something the giro doesn't, over and above the undeniable extra prestige.

    Agreed. And you are all right to point out the difference between the Giro and Tour.

    But between them Tyler and Cav had over 150 points. They were not bit players. As of today the points competition stands at:

    1 Danilo Di Luca, 130 pts
    2 Denis Menchov, 99 pts
    3 Alessandro Petacchi, 96 pts

    How many of those 150 odd points would Petacchi have? Would that throw up a different race dynamic, especially if he were threatening his own team leader? Maybe one of the other GC guys would be higher up the points classification if the sprint stage wins had been spread about a bit more.

    Of course it's all conjecture.

    Same as trying to redo the classifications when someone is pulled for drugs. It’s too simple to just bump everyone up the standings when influential riders pull out as it makes a mockery of all the team tactics / race dynamics that have gone before.

    I also believe that while we may agree that Cav's retirement is best for him on a personal level and his prospects at the Tour, the question of respect for the Giro should IMO be less Cav / UK concentric i.e. is it good for the Giro?
  • Eau Rouge
    Eau Rouge Posts: 1,118
    If the Giro organisers want the sprinters to stay to the end then they should give them a big pretigious sprint finish in Rome (or Milan) on the last day the way the Tour does with the Champs-Élysées.
  • andrewgturnbull
    andrewgturnbull Posts: 3,861
    Pokerface wrote:
    enjoy_the_ride wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    scottfrasernz wrote:
    And Petacchi got the better of him twice which made them very happy.

    Twice?


    Once.

    I wonder, if that puncture hadn't happened and Cav got stage 3 (?) would he have pulled out. The jersey would have been that much nearer. Unanswerable I suppose.

    Puncture?


    Crash.

    If I remember right, Cav was held up behind a crash, and while he was chasing back on Pettachi, the 'gentleman' sprinter, has his team put the hammer down at the front. Which showed disrespect for the maglia rosa imho.

    Cheers, Andy
    http://www.andyturnbull.co.uk
    http://www.stirlingtri.co.uk
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    This thread should be renamed "Goodfellas" with the number of accusations of disrespect that are being bandied around!
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Mmmmm Pizza !
  • FOAD
    FOAD Posts: 318
    andrewgturnbull wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    enjoy_the_ride wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    scottfrasernz wrote:
    And Petacchi got the better of him twice which made them very happy.

    Twice?


    Once.

    I wonder, if that puncture hadn't happened and Cav got stage 3 (?) would he have pulled out. The jersey would have been that much nearer. Unanswerable I suppose.

    Puncture?


    Crash.

    If I remember right, Cav was held up behind a crash, and while he was chasing back on Pettachi, the 'gentleman' sprinter, has his team put the hammer down at the front. Which showed disrespect for the maglia rosa imho.

    Cheers, Andy

    +1, the only way Pettachi was gonna beat Cav again unless Cav screwed the pooch as per the previous day.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    enjoy_the_ride wrote:
    But between them Tyler and Cav had over 150 points. They were not bit players. As of today the points competition stands at:

    1 Danilo Di Luca, 130 pts
    2 Denis Menchov, 99 pts
    3 Alessandro Petacchi, 96 pts

    How many of those 150 odd points would Petacchi have? Would that throw up a different race dynamic, especially if he were threatening his own team leader? Maybe one of the other GC guys would be higher up the points classification if the sprint stage wins had been spread about a bit more.

    Without Cav and Tyler, Petacchi would have got 14 more points (there were no points awarded for the Milan fiasco). Even if he'd got points for the Milan stage he would have been behind DiLuca with mostly mountains to come.

    This wasn't really a Giro for sprinters - 5 sprints so far, maybe one more. Sometimes the ciclamino doesn't go to a sprinter (Simoni won it in 2003, Bettini, not a proper sprinter won it twice. Chiapucci won it. Bugno and Rominger too). So it's not really a 'sprinters jersey' as it is in the Tour

    This year's G
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • enjoy_the_ride
    enjoy_the_ride Posts: 49
    RichN95 wrote:

    ...Without Cav and Tyler, Petacchi would have got 14 more points...

    Not having a pop Rich, I raised the question after all, but does that not presume all other things are equal, which is impossible no?

    The storey of a time traveller accidentally killing a butterfly and changing history comes to mind.

    The permutations are endless, but the result the same. Influential teams who intentionally pull top riders part way through a race skew the result for others who stay the course.

    Maybe that’s the way it’s got to be? As people have said young riders have to develop somehow and it’s best teams are honest about their intentions than devise mystery illnesses / injuries etc.
  • steviedonut
    steviedonut Posts: 69
    scottfrasernz wrote:
    Winning a few stages then sodding off mid-race because there's another race in six weeks

    Surely that's direspecting the Giro rather more than saying you're targetting the TTT

    Actions speak louder than words, even if you're Mark Cavendish

    Full respect for taking Milan-San Remo but the Giro stage wins are devalued in my book when you blow the race off at the half way point

    IMHO he needs to cut out the mouthing off about others who are actually committed to finishing the event

    Dunno what others think
    wholeheartedly agree.mark"ive nothing to learn"cavandish has a whole lot to learn regarding respecting other riders and events.
  • steviedonut
    steviedonut Posts: 69
    andrewgturnbull wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    enjoy_the_ride wrote:
    Pokerface wrote:
    scottfrasernz wrote:
    And Petacchi got the better of him twice which made them very happy.

    Twice?


    Once.

    I wonder, if that puncture hadn't happened and Cav got stage 3 (?) would he have pulled out. The jersey would have been that much nearer. Unanswerable I suppose.

    Puncture?


    Crash.

    If I remember right, Cav was held up behind a crash, and while he was chasing back on Pettachi, the 'gentleman' sprinter, has his team put the hammer down at the front. Which showed disrespect for the maglia rosa imho.

    Cheers, Andy

    it wasnt petacchis fault that cavandish didnt have the sense to be near the front in that run in-as the commentators pointed out,prior to the crash,serious contenders for the GC were keeping as far up as possible for exactly that reason

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