Steve Larsen

pottssteve

You may remember him...

http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Steve_La ... 9_816.html


Thirty-nine is awfully young...

aurelio_-_banned

pottssteve wrote:

You may remember him...

http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Steve_La ... 9_816.html

Thirty-nine is awfully young...

One might even say unnaturally young for someone living the active lifestyle of a dedicated sportsman, and he is just the latest in a long line of professional or ex-professional cyclists to die at a young age of heart problems.

This also reported on cyclingnews:

Former Motorola road pro racer and two-time National Off-Road Bicycle Association (NORBA) mountain bike champion Steve Larsen suffered a fatal heart attack during a running workout in Bend, Oregon May 19...

Larsen began cycling in 1984 just as Greg LeMond was becoming a household name. He entered his first cyclo-cross race and bronzed in 1986 at the first Junior National Championship in Santa Cruz, California. Larsen went on to road race through the Junior National Team Program in Europe before moving up to the Amateur World Championships with the U.S. team.

Larsen got his first professional contract for the Motorola squad around 1991 and relocated to Italy where he raced professionally for almost four years and became a highly respected road racer, riding alongside teammate Lance Armstrong.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /may21news

stagehopper

aurelio wrote:

pottssteve wrote:

You may remember him...

http://www.slowtwitch.com/News/Steve_La ... 9_816.html

Thirty-nine is awfully young...

One might even say unnaturally young for someone living the active lifestyle of a dedicated sportsman, and he is just the latest in a long line of professional or ex-professional cyclists to die at a young age of heart problems.

Before yet another ex-rider gets tarnished with the die young + heart problems = past druggie label ..... it's already been reported that both heart attack and a blood clot have been ruled out by autopsy. They think it was a viral breathing problem:

http://www.velonews.com/article/92268/a ... art-attack

aurelio_-_banned

stagehopper wrote:

Before yet another ex-rider gets tarnished with the die young + heart problems = past druggie label ..... it's already been reported that both heart attack and a blood clot have been ruled out by autopsy. They think it was a viral breathing problem:

http://www.velonews.com/article/92268/a ... art-attack

From that report: The cause of death may have been viral or related to allergies, he said...the family has asked for additional tests on his brother's heart.

Heart related on not, no one can say for sure exactly what the long-term affects of doping are on a rider's health. Whether Larsen's death was doping related or not, it remains the case that your use of the phrase 'Before yet another ex-rider gets tarnished with the die young + heart problems = past druggie label' itself speaks volumes.

iainf72

Can I be the first to say, Oh FFS.

disgruntledgoat

You may indeed. I would argue that as he's long past riding and a human being and still warm you might want to show just a smidge of respect.

RIP.

avoidingmyphd

aurelio, whilst I don't always agree with you, I admire your tenacity in the LA debate. But you're just sh1tting on someone's grave here.

DaveyL

Don't recall aurelio writing anything on the thread when Frederiek Nolf passed away. Then again he didn't have LA as a teammate in years gone by. Incredible the lengths you will go to to smear the guy, you do yourself, and your usual argument, no favours whatsoever.

robmanic1

In aurelio's defence, the thought crossed my mind as soon as I saw the headline. Terribly sad whatever the cause was.

andyp

I'm sure the thought crossed a lot of people's minds but most have the decency not to post it in a public forum.

Aurelio - as others have said, your actions are astonishing.

Back on to the sad topic. It's terrible when someone so young dies, especially when they have children to support. My thoughts go out to the Larsen family at this sad time.

aurelio_-_banned

avoidingmyphd wrote:

you're just sh1tting on someone's grave here.

OK, so everytime a rider dies 'unaturally' young let's just bury our heads in the sand and by so doing ensure that nothing changes. To my mind it would serve the dead far more if people were to shout out loud about the system that may well be implicated in their deaths.

The Times
24 February 2009.
World in motion: why we need to know what killed Frederiek Nolf

You may not have heard of Frederiek Nolf, but he is dead, so now is probably your last chance. He was five days short of his 22nd birthday

Cyclingnews.com
June 3, 2003
Salanson dies

French Professional Fabrice Salanson (Brioches la Boulangère) was found dead today in his hotel room just hours before the start of the Deutschland Tour (Tour of Germany), according to German wire reports. The 23 year old was found by his roomate Sebastien Chavanel at 8:30am local time on the floor, with one leg on the bed. He died in his sleep between 2:30 and 4:00am

cyclingnews.com
January 11, 2003
Denis Zanette dead from heart attack

32 year old Italian professional Denis Zanette has died as a result of a heart attack, suffered while visiting the dentist on Friday, January 10.

OK, that's three, there must be at least 30-odd other cyclists who have died in similar circustances since the EPO and "800 ml of packed cells" era hit the 'sport' of cycling.

People talk of respecting the dead, and yet I bet that most of these people have so much 'respect' for those professional cyclists who have died in 'questionable' circumstances that they couldn't even name them! :evil:

aurelio_-_banned

andyp wrote:

My thoughts go out to the Larsen family at this sad time.

What a pathetic, empty phrase. Next people will be posting 'Rest in peace'. :evil:

disgruntledgoat

aurelio wrote:

andyp wrote:

My thoughts go out to the Larsen family at this sad time.

What a pathetic, empty phrase. Next people will be posting 'Rest in peace'. :evil:

I don't know about you mate, but when I hear a 39 year old with a wife and children has died suddenly, my first thought is usually about his family and friends. In fact, thats usually my first thought when i hear anyone has died. That's not, in my opinion, pathetic that's humane.

aurelio_-_banned

From a Guardian article 'shitting' on the graves of a few more professional cyclists. :roll:

Marco Ceriani (Italy)

Died May 5, aged 16

An elite amateur, Ceriani experienced a heart attack during a race, was admitted to hospital in a coma, and failed to recover consciousness.

Marco Rusconi (Italy)

Died November 14, aged 24

Rusconi was leaving the party of a friend last November when he collapsed and died in a shopping centre car park.

Jose Maria Jimenez (Spain)

Died December 6, aged 32

Died from a heart attack in a psychiatric hospital in Madrid. Had retired two years previously but consistently claimed a comeback was imminent.

Michel Zanoli (Netherlands)

Died December 29, aged 35

Zanoli, who retired in 1997, was 35 when he suffered a fatal heart attack.

Johan Sermon (Belgium)

Died February 15 2004, aged 21

Suffered an apparent heart failure in his sleep. Had reportedly gone to bed early to prepare for an eight-hour training ride.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2004/fe ... g.cycling1

iainf72

Yes, but the guardian article isn't trying to use someones death to score points in a tedious crusade against Armstrong.

avoidingmyphd

aurelio wrote:

avoidingmyphd wrote:

you're just sh1tting on someone's grave here.

OK, so everytime a rider dies 'unaturally' young let's just bury our heads in the sand and by so doing ensure that nothing changes. To my mind it would serve the dead far more if people were to shout out loud about the system that may well be implicated in their deaths

....

OK, that's three, there must be at least 30-odd other cyclists who have died in similar circustances since the EPO and "800 ml of packed cells" era hit the 'sport' of cycling.

People talk of respecting the dead, and yet I bet that most of these people have so much 'respect' for those professional cyclists who have died in 'questionable' circumstances that they couldn't even name them! :evil:

aurelio, i neither asked you to respect the dead, nor suggested that you (we) bury your (our) head(s) in the sand.

My post stemmed simply from astonishment at your failure to respect Steve Larsen's family and other loved ones he leaves behind by posting utterly unnecessary innuendo on their first day of grieving.


I'm further astonished that you have returned and attacked people (not just me, but andyp as well) whilst defending what you did.

Go and fight the antidoping crusade aurelio and many people will be with you. But learn how to do it, please.

Maybe also spend 10 seconds thinking about larsen's family and their predicament today. If you have any human feeling at all, I hope you'll quickly realise that andyp's comment was not pathetic and empty.

PeteinSQ

Aurelio, you have absolutely no way of knowing that doping had anything to do with this man's death.

John Ibbotson was found dead from heart failure and was suffering from a congenital heart defect called Arrhythmogenic Right Ventricular Cardiomyopathy. More information on this condition can be found here http://www.c-r-y.org.uk/ARVC.htm

Young athletes do drop dead and it can have nothing to do with doping. This man has only just died and I think it is very unfair to use it as a way to score points in your crusade against doping.

aurelio_-_banned

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I don't know about you mate, but when I hear a 39 year old with a wife and children has died suddenly, my first thought is usually about his family and friends. In fact, thats usually my first thought when i hear anyone has died. That's not, in my opinion, pathetic that's humane.

So, when you wrote 'My thoughts go out to the Larsen family at this sad time' you actually meant to say 'I momentarily thought about his wife and kids and how sad they must be'? If so, fair enough, I did the same.

However, it does make me feel a little queasy when people claim to be deeply affected by the death of someone that had no personal connections with and have never met (commonly claiming to be 'devastated' or similar), and when they give their 'condolences' for what seems to be no other reason than social etiquette, even following set responses, ('at this sad time' and so on) Just look at Diana Spencer's funeral to see where such empty 'grieving' can lead.

And no, I am not some heard-hearted individual with no sense of empathy. It's just that there are millions of people dying around the world all the time who deserve our empathy and grief more than some successful ex pro cyclist! If people feel genuinely affected by the death of someone like Steve Larsen, could they please explain to me why they aren’t in a catatonic state of grief about what else is going on the world! Sense of perspective anyone?

PeteinSQ

Aurelio, that isn't really the point. The real question is why you feel the need to do the absolute opposite to everyone else and immediately start casting aspersions with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

aurelio_-_banned

PeteinSQ wrote:

Aurelio, you have absolutely no way of knowing that doping had anything to do with this man's death.

You could say the same about most of those other cyclists who have died young in 'questionable' circumstances. Larsen's death is still a part of a very worrying trend.

PeteinSQ

Yes, maybe it is. Now isn't the time to be discussing it.

aurelio_-_banned

PeteinSQ wrote:

Aurelio, that isn't really the point. The real question is why you feel the need to do the absolute opposite to everyone else and immediately start casting aspersions with absolutely no evidence to back it up.

This is how 'Doobz' started off his thread about the death of Frederick Nolf...

hmmmm... condolences - I hope its not the dreaded case of "thick blood"

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... erick+nolf

Did anyone attack 'Doobz' for making such 'aspersions? Er, no. It seems to me more a case of everyone simply trying to take on a position opposite to me!

aurelio_-_banned

With regards the thread reporting on the death of Frederick Nolf, at least Martin Van Nostrand has something sensible to say...

...Putting one's head in the sand will only risk the lives of future cyclists. Maybe the results will show the need for better cardiac screening and testing for congenital heart diseases.

Frankly, what's most disturbing about this is the way it is getting swept away under the rug, no questions asked. Huge politics here, as this was a Belgian rider dying at a race run by Eddy Merckx.

I guess being a pro cycling spectator in 2009 just requires massive amounts of denial.

PeteinSQ

Clearly they do need better cardiac screening.

Doobz should have been pulled up on this. The one thing I would say in his defence is that Nolf was a current rider in the peloton and it is a known fact that taking EPO thickens the blood and can lead to heart failure. This particular effect of EPO is short lived and would not effect someone who had given cycling up as Larsen had. Again people shouldn't be questioning what killed Nolf or any other cyclist until a post mortem has been conducted.

flattythehurdler

Autopsies not necessarily prove cause of death. In any case, I think everyone here is being a little hard on Aurelio.

DaveyL

Glad you've finally found the Nolf thread, aurelio. Several people did chip in with the comment that now was not the time for such speculation.

In contrast to the OP of that thread, it was obvious to many of us that you were pursuing your usual agenda in a wholly inappropriate manner.

I'd now actually quite like to meet the Scottish bloke who chinned you, and shake his hand.

flattythehurdler

Which says more about you than it does about him really

DaveyL

Of course it does, aurelio's an indirect object in that sentence.

aurelio_-_banned

With regards to me or anyone else making 'aspersions' as to why so many pro and ex-pro cyclists die of sudden heart failure and so on, perhaps people should consider just how rare such deaths are amongs those not already suffering from heart disease and so on. One major study of American high-school athletes found that the incidence of such deaths was only 0.46 deaths per 100,000 athletes and other studies have found a rate between 0.28 and 1 death per 100,000 athletes. See:

http://www.americanheart.org/downloadab ... osCA06.pdf

So amongst a couple of thousand, at most, professional cyclists, all of whom are under constant medical ‘supervision’ and monitoring such deaths should be almost vanishingly rare...

aurelio_-_banned

DaveyL wrote:

it was obvious to many of us that you were pursuing your usual agenda in a wholly inappropriate manner.

Interesting, I merely quoted the summary of Larsen's career from the cyclingnews.com report, making no comment whatsoever, and as a consequence more than one poster has accused me of using this story to attack Armstrong. I guess that to see my post in this way they must have themselves thought that his past association with Armstrong raised questions...

Anyhow, if that's how people see it, I might as well add the following...

To paraphrase David Walsh: 'There are people who are dragged into doping, and there are those that do the dragging, Lance Armstrong one of those doing the dragging.'

We already have testimony from other ex-members of Armstrong’s team how they felt pressurised to dope, and indeed did dope, in order to serve him better.

Given the incidence of sudden death amongst pro and ex-pro cyclists it also seems that such doping has serious effects, above and beyond turning the 'sport' of cycling into meaningless sports entertainment. (Witness the farce that is the Giro).

And before anyone tries to make the fatuous claim that I must be 'blaming' Armstrong for Larsen's death, I am not. He did not ride for Armstrong for his whole career and I fully accept his death may have been down to natural causes. However, at some point we need to fully accept just how sick the whole 'sport' of cycling really is and to get angry about it... maybe the next time another rider dies in 'questionable' circumstances, but I wouldn’t bet on it...

DaveyL

I'd say the Motorola boys were dragged into it by the Gewiss team (and other "early adopters"), if you're looking for someone to blame. Walsh has also said as much. If we're going by what Walsh says, that is.