Commuter wanting to watch road racing

DonDaddyD

As a boy I used to watch the Tour de France on channel 4. I had no concept of the rules or how a person won, I just liked watching the bikes go fast and trying to find out who was in the yellow jersey..

Since I’ve been able to indulge my inner cyclist I’ve wanted to get into competitive cycling as a spectator. – By competitive cycling I mean road racing. But no matter how hard I try I just can’t follow it for a number of reasons:

(i) I have limited access to watch it. It never seems to be on TV. If it is what channel?

(ii) I still don’t truly understand how road racing works. This I feel is compounded by not being able to follow the results stage by stage on TV. How does it work? How does someone become a World Champion of cycling?

(iii) Drugs; the rampant use of drugs, repetitive banning of what seems the majority of the best cyclists and the subsequent uncertainty of who is clean and who is doped to the eyeballs makes it hard for me to engage with the sport from a spectator level.

Example:
I watched the Tour de France about 2 years ago with a desire to get into it. I wanted to get behind a rider and follow his progress through the event. I watched Riccardo Ricci’s brilliant attack and thus stage win. I was all set to get behind and follow the ‘Cobra’ and then bam about a week later I find out he’s been banned for drugs. This makes it hard for me to follow a sport where the competitors seem less than credible.

Does anyone else have this problem. How did you start watching cycling at the competitive level? Advice to help, please?

tardington

If you've got a sports package on your digibox, there tends to be a fair amount of programs on the big races, and even some of the smaller ones. If it doesn't clash with the footy, you can get decent amounts of live coverage too, these days. But pretty much zip if your looking on terrestrial.

As for watching... I find it hard to tell them all apart, as the strips are so garish and there are so many people going very fast in a clump*.. Maybe if you read up on the team tactics it would help? I know you get domestiques and all sorts of non-race winners cluttering the track up. Also, you're right about looking at a winner, and thinking "wonder if he'll pass the dope test" - takes the magic out a bit.

*okay, peloton :P

jonginge

i) ITV4 cover TDF, Tour of Britain and Tour of Ireland. Mostly it's hour roundups each day but last year they did a couple of hours live coverage per day during the TDF. They also occasionally have highlights of the Classics: they had an hour of Paris-Roubaix the other week; need to scan the schedules closely. They'll also be covering some uk city-centre circuit races over the summer.
Eurosport do quite a lot of cycling but coverage is often delayed when tennis, motorcycling, darts (!) are on. See the Pro Race forum for Eurosports rants
I look at the site www.cyclingfans.com where a load of video streaming for major events can be found. I've watched a few of the classics finales and some of the giro using those streams.

ii) World RR champs is a one off race, much like the olympics. It's organised into national teams unlike every pro race. The size of the teams for each country is based on results from previous races. The cycling powerhouses like Italy, France, Belgium have nine man teams. I think GB actually had a six man team last year, the most in a long time. Obviously the bigger the team the more tactics you can put into play.

iii) Yeah. The performances of Ricco, Schumacher, (and to a lesser extent) Kohl stunk if you'd been following the pro scene for a while: sudden increase in quality of riding and results, unfortunately, gets the alarm bells ringing. Glad they got caught.

I'll be watching some racing at the Smithfield Nocturne. Good fun

il_principe

Giro d'Italia is on Eurosport atm, decent enough coverage and worth watching. Some decent mountain stages still to come!

brushed

Cycle racing is a sport that occurs in this country in the main first thing in the morning on a sunday when most sane people are still in bed. It is a mysterious and specialist activity to most lay people and so I can understand your issues.

One way to learn the game is to join a cycling club and race yourself and be enlightened by the wealth of experience that you will be exposed to in doing so from club mates.

Having said that cycle racing is far from easy - it is hard work mentally and physically.
Greg Lemond once said ' it dosent get any easier you just get faster '

In order to fully understand you need to participate in racing and learn how its done first hand.

When I was in a club many moons ago it was reckoned you needed 8 continuous seasons of racing before you had enough experience to be a top amateur.

To turn professional steps up the skill , speed and commitment and racing on the continent is even more difficult.

So when somebody asks me if I am training for the tour de france just cos I have a racing bike and wear lycra it demonstrates this idea perfectly.

It would be like someone seeing me kick a football saying are you going to be in the world cup final?

It is a hard spectator sport even for me and I have been watching it for over 25 years.

Rich158

I understand how you feel DDD. It took me ages to realise cycling was actually a team sport, but once I did and started to unravel the different roles the riders play I was able to understand it a lot more. I still find it a tad confusing though, with single stage races, the grand tours and races like the Tour of Britain. I've started to read cycling weekly and it's all slowly becoming more apparent.

As for doping, it's part of the culture of the sport, it's always been there and it'll never go away. You can't look at the history of pro cycling without looking at the history of doping, and unfortunately in the peloton in years gone by it has been rife, as it was the only way for a domestique to get through a grand tour and support the stars of the team. It doesn't make it right, and I truly hope one day all sports will be clean, it is however a very significant part of the history of our sport so don't let it spoil your enjoyment of the spectacle of road racing.

Eau Rouge

Cycling is on Eurosport. It's probably on right now as the Giro D'Italia is into it's second week. It's Italy's version of the Tour de France and some would say a better cycling race than the French or Spansih versions.

Short of that, Pez Cycling News, Cyclingnews.com and steephill.com are good places to go. Pez does more background stuff, cyclingnews is news, a the best place for results, while steephill will have lots of links to live streaming and clips after the fact.

Road racing is complicated, very complicated. Every race is an individual event and there is no overall season-long league or tournament. Whether a race is more important than another race is a personal decision, even for the leading riders.
There are two main types of road race, the stage race ala the Tour de France, and the one-day race ala Milan-San Remo. The one day's are simplier, you start in the morning and the first guy across the finish line is the winner. The World Championships are a one-day race, but while most are held over the same route every year, the WC move around all the time.
Stage races are done on time. Everyone is timed for every stage, whoever has the lowerst time at the end id the winner. There are often "bonus seconds" for stage wins etc to reduce your time. Stage races also have points competitions in them, one for sprints during at and the end of a stage, and a Mountains one for the climbs.
Stage races are much more tactical, relying on a team of riders. The three big stage races (France, Italy and Spain) are strange things to watch, with the favourites all watching each other and waiting for this stage or that stage to attack. It's all very very tactical and not always easy or obvious to watch. The other cyclists in the race won't understand their opponents tactics, thats often the whole point.

As for drugs, it's rampant but they get caught, and of they don't, they probably already were a couple of years ago and are just back from a ban. Cycling fans actually think cycling is less effected by drugs than most other sports, it's just that other sports don't actually test their players. The drugs testers want to test everyone like they test cyclists, everyone is up in arms about actually being tested in a way that means they need to be careful how they take drugs. The doctors that give these drugs are even more expert in giving them in ways that make them hard to catch.
As a fan you have little way of knowing. Past history is a good indicator, but thats all it is.

jonginge

Eau Rouge wrote:

As for drugs, it's rampant but they get caught, and of they don't, they probably already were a couple of years ago and are just back from a ban. Cycling fans actually think cycling is less effected by drugs than most other sports, it's just that other sports don't actually test their players. The drugs testers want to test everyone like they test cyclists, everyone is up in arms about actually being tested in a way that means they need to be careful how they take drugs. The doctors that give these drugs are even more expert in giving them in ways that make them hard to catch.
As a fan you have little way of knowing. Past history is a good indicator, but thats all it is.

Mark Cavendish was on Inside Sport the other week. He said he'd been tested 64 times during the previous year. OK so he won a lot but even so it's the sort of level required to spot micro-dosing of certain drugs. It's out of competition tests that are important (hence the WADA whereabouts row): only the muppets* get caught with dope in their systems at championships or other important races.

* That said, professional athletes don't normally fill the top intelligence quartile

shoulder_of_orion

the rules in the grand tours are very simple but the tactics and strategy are complex. these multiple stage races are won by the person who finishes in the quickest time which is calculated by adding up the time of each rider for every stage.

Normally the TDF is won by a couple of minutes or so overall which isn't a lot considering they ride something like 2500 miles in 3 weeks. I remember when Greg Lemond won it in the late 80s and he won by 8 secs and the final stage which is normally a procession until the last bit when the spinters race for the line. In that case the maillot jaune was racing against the local favourite Fignon for the line - it was very exciting.

One good thing about the TDF is that there are a lot of sub-competitions in the TDF such as the King of the Mountains, Green Jersey (for sprinters/points), White Jersey (for young riders) and even "most aggressive rider". There is also a lot of strategy and tactics, especially in the mountains -- it is amazing how vital the team is in what is essentially an individual sport.

The TDF is normally on ITV4 now (using the same commentators as the old channel four coverage - but somehow it is not as good). I think there was a daily highlights package at about 7pm from memory. But since getting Sky+ I just record all the live stages and watch at my leisure. I have been watching the Giro which is on at the moment (today's stage is one of the highlights).

Yes drugs have been rife, from the Astana scandal, through Pantani, Ulrich, Basso, Rassmussen, Virenque, Landis and so some say Armstrong to name many of the modern "greats" who have been implicated. But drugs are in other sports most notably athletics and they have existed in cycling for many years - the case of Tom Simpson is the stuff of legend (search "Simpson Ventoux" - there is a great book about it the name of which escapes me). I agree that the sport of professional cycling has been badly damaged more than any other sport, but they do finally seem to be making headway (doubtless many will disagree with that).

As you can probably tell - I LOVE cycling on TV for me it's the best and in this country most overlooked spectator sport.

I have driven up some of the mountains in the Pyrenees and Alps and to see the names of the riders painted on road when there is an almost vertical 2000 foot drop to your left or right is simply awe inspiring. Literally my car was struggling up those roads (and it was an OK car).

greg66_tri_v2.0

{edit: looks like a lot of us were typing at the same time!}

Bike racing tactics in stage races (multi-day). One of the things that makes it such a mesmerising spectacle.

Ok, here's my insight based on, uuum, watching TV.

Types of stages: time trials, flat stages and mountain stages.

Time trials. Ride as fast as you can, start to finish. These can be short (eg a prologue, designed to put the field in order for the first proper stage) or long (50-60km, sometimes a bit shorter) or mountain (start at the bottom, finish at the top). Riders go off at 2 min intervals. No drafting. The French call this the Race Against the Truth. There's nowhere to hide on a TT. Each rider gets their own time. They'll have a team car with them, and the top riders will get updates from the car via radio as they ride about pacing, time gaps and so on.

One variation: the team time trial. Beloved by sponsors and photographers. The team sets off in a pace line. The time is that of a particular rider over the line (in the Tour, the fifth of nine riders). The idea is to share the effort as much as possible. Jan Ulrich and Chris Boardman have both managed to ride off the front of their teams whilst pulling at the front. Not good. TTTs favour strong teams.

Flat stages. For the sprinters. Typically, a small group will hare off into the distance in the first 20k. If that group doesn't contain anyone in contention for the big positions, the peleton will let them go. Usually they'll get reeled in in the last 5-10km, sometime sooner. The breakaway has to work together to stay away, but those who fancy their chances in the sprint will try to do less work.

Once the peleton is in full-bore pursuit, it's an awesome site. The breakaway knows when their time is up, as the team cars get pulled out of the gap between the breakaway and the peleton. Then it's just a matter of minutes.

Either way, the race for the line is a sprint. It's unusual for a solo breakaway to win a flat stage.

If the peleton's heading for the line, then the teams with sprinters will line up at the front of the peleton. They pace it and also protect their sprinter. Every sprinter has a lead-out man - the last member of his team to get out the way. The lead out man's job is done with 2-300 metres to go; he eases off, and then it's down to his sprinter to time his run to the line to take the win.

Cavendish's job, therefore, is to sit in the bunch all day, move to the front in the last few km, and let his team launch him at the line from 200m out. The rest of the team work for him.

Mountain stages. Usually uphill finishes, sometimes downhill. Mountains are classified according to severity of climbs - Cat 4 the easiest, and HC (Hors Categorie) the hardest, about Cat 1.

Typical mountain stage in the Tour takes in four climbs with the finish at the top of the last one. Tactics here are fascinating.

Some teams will have a specialist climber, who's there to take a mountain win. Some teams will be protecting their contender for the overall podium. That rider is usually looking not to win a mountain stage, but to make sure he doesn't lose time to his rivals.

USPS/Team Discovery, and latterly CSC were pretty good at controlling mountain stages. Each rider works for a part of the day, driving the front of the pack, pushing the pace at a level that's fine for their team leader but which they hope will sap the other contenders. Bottom of the final climb you'd see a procession of riders from the strongest team drive the pace up the early stages of the climb.

But then the real fun starts. Uphill finishes are where big time gaps can be had. So the leaders might attack one another - see who's got it in their legs, and who hasn't. Cadel Evans last year was fave to win the Tour, and as a result, every other contender attacked him. Covering every attack was more than he could do.

Another tactic is for a team to fire off a breakaway early in the day. Their man in the breakaway is there to get caught on the last climb by his team leader, and then handover bottles and/or pace him up the final climb.

So, how do you win? Top place on the podium goes to the person with the lowest aggregate time. Easy.

But there are other competitions: climbing (each climb has a sliding scale of points at the top; so a person in a sole breakaway on a mountain stage can rack up a lot of climbing points); sprinting (as well as points for winning flat stages, there are intermediate sprint points on the stage where further points can be collected). Young riders (U21, I think) have a parallel classification.

Oh, and sometimes the stage win, intermediate sprint or climb carries a time bonus. Another reason to watch your rivals.

Got it?

lost_in_thought

Strewth. That makes me want to watch it even less. Educational though!

But then I've never been a fan of watching sports. Rather be doing them, you see.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Shoulder of Orion wrote:

But drugs are in other sports most notably athletics and they have existed in cycling for many years - the case of Tom Simpson is the stuff of legend (search "Simpson Ventoux" - there is a great book about it the name of which escapes me). I

Put Me Back On My Bike (IIRC). A theme of the book is that you can't get around the drug problem by letting everyone have access to them, because the best (most highly paid) riders will always have access to better (more expensive) drugs.

Doping has been a part of Euro-cycling for decades. Personally, I doubt that the previous generation of riders doped any less than their predecessors; they were more scrutinised and subject to greater opprobium though. Is the current peleton clean? I doubt that a lot. Maybe less dirty than it has been, but not clean by a margin.

jonginge

Greg66 wrote:

Another tactic is for a team to fire off a breakaway early in the day. Their man in the breakaway is there to get caught on the last climb by his team leader, and then handover bottles and/or pace him up the final climb.

CSC did this to perfection on the stage to Hautacam last year. They sent Cancellara up the road over the Tourmalet, while Jens Voigt shredded the main peloton distancing Valverde and Cunego. Cancellara sat up on the descent and he and Jens drove the CSC-dominated select group to the foot of Hautacam. The 30 seconds Valverde had lost at the top of the Tourmalet had become 3 and a half minutes: game over for GC. Awesome work by CSC that day.

Kieran_Burns

There's a section of my commute which is reguarly used as a TT stretch, and I've been on it when a TT guy came past. If you EVER want to feel like you need to speed up, be in that situation.

I glanced over my shoulder and saw him about 1/4 mile back, glanced again and SWISH.

I was actually holding 18mph up the hill and this guy went past like I was standing still :shock:

Most impressive and one reason why I like LEISURE cycling

greg66_tri_v2.0

JonGinge wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Another tactic is for a team to fire off a breakaway early in the day. Their man in the breakaway is there to get caught on the last climb by his team leader, and then handover bottles and/or pace him up the final climb.

CSC did this to perfection on the stage to Hautacam last year. They sent Cancellara up the road over the Tourmalet, while Jens Voigt shredded the main peloton distancing Valverde and Cunego. Cancellara sat up on the descent and he and Jens drove the CSC-dominated select group to the foot of Hautacam. The 30 seconds Valverde had lost at the top of the Tourmalet had become 3 and a half minutes: game over for GC. Awesome work by CSC that day.

I remember that - awesome work.

For some reason, I'd feel really disappointed if Voight turned out to be a doper. He's such a selfless rider, and fecking strong as an ox to boot!

@DDD: One thing I absolutely cannot recommend is to find a webcast of the TdF in July. You most certainly do not want to spend your afternoons watching the mountain stages unfold. Oh no. That would be extremely bad.

jonginge

Greg66 wrote:

JonGinge wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Another tactic is for a team to fire off a breakaway early in the day. Their man in the breakaway is there to get caught on the last climb by his team leader, and then handover bottles and/or pace him up the final climb.

CSC did this to perfection on the stage to Hautacam last year. They sent Cancellara up the road over the Tourmalet, while Jens Voigt shredded the main peloton distancing Valverde and Cunego. Cancellara sat up on the descent and he and Jens drove the CSC-dominated select group to the foot of Hautacam. The 30 seconds Valverde had lost at the top of the Tourmalet had become 3 and a half minutes: game over for GC. Awesome work by CSC that day.

I remember that - awesome work.

For some reason, I'd feel really disappointed if Voight turned out to be a doper. He's such a selfless rider, and fecking strong as a ox to boot!

Me, too. My favourite rider by a distance.

cjcp

JonGinge wrote:

I remember that - awesome work.

For some reason, I'd feel really disappointed if Voight turned out to be a doper. He's such a selfless rider, and fecking strong as a ox to boot!

Me, too. My favourite rider by a distance.[/quote]

Me too. Love the way he just buries himself. He did it about a month ago on a hilltop finish in the Criterium International prog on Eurosport. And the man finishes the TdF with a broken seat post. Nails. Last year, when his work was done, didn't riders from other teams pat him on the shoulders or the back as they passed him?

Re Ricco - I was open-mouthed when he attacked JonGinge stylee in the TdF but what I couldn't, quite, believe, was his speed on the flat to the finish, given that he's a climber and all. May be the peleton were too goosed to chase or too lazy, but it just *felt* wrong.

biondino

JonGinge stylee

*puts two and two together* jonginge, how COULD you? :shock:

Feltup

Shoulder of Orion wrote:

Normally the TDF is won by a couple of minutes or so overall which isn't a lot considering they ride something like 2500 miles in 3 weeks. I remember when Greg Lemond won it in the late 80s and he won by 8 secs and the final stage which is normally a procession until the last bit when the spinters race for the line. In that case the maillot jaune was racing against the local favourite Fignon for the line - it was very exciting.

I remember that one too. There was all sorts of specualtion that Fignon would have won the TdF if he had a hair cut at the start as the drag from his pony tail over the time trial was enought cost him those 8 seconds!

The first time I saw a stage live was the final stage Fignon won racing to Mulhouse. I got to see Robert Miller, Pedro Delgado and Greg LeMond all sat on the front of the peloton chatting away going at a speed that I could maintain for a second. Awesome.

DDD - make the effort to go to the Alps one year and see it live. I took my lass last year and she wasn't that keen but was quite emotional about the effort and endurance of the whole thing when it was that close and real.

cjcp

JonGinge wrote:

They sent Cancellara up the road over the Tourmalet, while Jens Voigt shredded the main peloton distancing Valverde and Cunego. Cancellara sat up on the descent and he and Jens drove the CSC-dominated select group to the foot of Hautacam. The 30 seconds Valverde had lost at the top of the Tourmalet had become 3 and a half minutes: game over for GC. Awesome work by CSC that day.

I was soooooooooooooooooooo glad Valverde was dropped.

On the drugs issue, I think we'd be slightly naive to think it didn't go in other professional sports beyond the amount that's reported in the press. Also, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if there's the level of testing in, for example, football and rugby that there is in cycling.

jonginge

biondino wrote:

JonGinge stylee

*puts two and two together* jonginge, how COULD you? :shock:

Heh, heh. The last injection I had was 14 years ago*. Although this was to draw blood I don't think research for a Sports Science PhD counts as a Fuentes-style blood-doping facility


* and i almost fainted

jonginge

cjcp wrote:

JonGinge wrote:

They sent Cancellara up the road over the Tourmalet, while Jens Voigt shredded the main peloton distancing Valverde and Cunego. Cancellara sat up on the descent and he and Jens drove the CSC-dominated select group to the foot of Hautacam. The 30 seconds Valverde had lost at the top of the Tourmalet had become 3 and a half minutes: game over for GC. Awesome work by CSC that day.

I was soooooooooooooooooooo glad Valverde was dropped.

On the drugs issue, I think we'd be slightly naive to think it didn't go in other professional sports beyond the amount that's reported in the press. Also, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if there's the level of testing in, for example, football and rugby that there is in cycling.

If there were there would be several random tests after each premiership game. Not sure this is the case.

shoulder_of_orion

cjcp wrote:

JonGinge wrote:

They sent Cancellara up the road over the Tourmalet, while Jens Voigt shredded the main peloton distancing Valverde and Cunego. Cancellara sat up on the descent and he and Jens drove the CSC-dominated select group to the foot of Hautacam. The 30 seconds Valverde had lost at the top of the Tourmalet had become 3 and a half minutes: game over for GC. Awesome work by CSC that day.

I was soooooooooooooooooooo glad Valverde was dropped.

That was awesome. Voigt is a legend...

Another memorable day in the mountains was when Big Mig was blown away by Riise and another when Pantani and Armstrong had the duel all the way to the summit. Those moments for me aren't as tainted for me as when Rasmussen and Landis got done cos it was so immediately afterwards.

cjcp wrote:

On the drugs issue, I think we'd be slightly naive to think it didn't go in other professional sports beyond the amount that's reported in the press. Also, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if there's the level of testing in, for example, football and rugby that there is in cycling.

Yes but the performance boost you get from drugs in cycling makes all the difference. If you give a footballer drugs it ain't really gonna help him dribble like ronaldo is it? Score more goals? Make better saves? The performance advantage in football, rugby or tennis are not that great, maybe better stamina or acceleration but it's not going to make the crucial difference in terms of scoring goals / trys / points etc.

But remember when Landis had basically lunched the Tour about 3 years ago. Thrown it away, crumbled on the Alpe D'Huez. Then he blew them all away the next day in one of the most awesome attacking climbing displays of all time. Pity he was drugged up on testosterone.

Sewinman

Sad but i like to read this - http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/cycling/l ... 79201.html

If you wan't to see someone really ride a road bike - watch some of the Lance Armstrong documentaries on youtube. I missed it all at the time but the guy really is a legend. Some people on this forum go an about him having drugged up, but innocent until proven is good enough for me.

cjcp

Shoulder of Orion wrote:

cjcp wrote:

On the drugs issue, I think we'd be slightly naive to think it didn't go in other professional sports beyond the amount that's reported in the press. Also, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if there's the level of testing in, for example, football and rugby that there is in cycling.

Yes but the performance boost you get from drugs in cycling makes all the difference. If you give a footballer drugs it ain't really gonna help him dribble like ronaldo is it? Score more goals? Make better saves? The performance advantage in football, rugby or tennis are not that great, maybe better stamina or acceleration but it's not going to make the crucial difference in terms of scoring goals / trys / points etc.

That's a good point. I say that, not because I don't know a thing about drugs, but because I read an article recently about how certain drugs only help at altitude e.g. viagra. (I guess if you're playing against Bolivia away, Viagra is the first thing in your kit bag.)

Jon - what was Schumacher on? Did he use that for the TT (that wasn't altitude, was it?)?

cjcp

Sewinman wrote:

Sad but i like to read this - http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/cycling/l ... 79201.html

If you wan't to see someone really ride a road bike - watch some of the Lance Armstrong documentaries on youtube. I missed it all at the time but the guy really is a legend. Some people on this forum go an about him having drugged up, but innocent until proven is good enough for me.

Di Luca. Hmm. Anyhoo, I guess he's got to make a charge today because the long TT ain't going to suit him.

The LA documentaries on Youtube are brilliant. What's the one where he drops Pantani odd? Awesome.

biondino

This season the two biggest stars in baseball have both been shown to be/have been dopers. That's a sport with a massive amount swept under the carpet. I talk about it a little in my blog (link below).

cjcp

biondino wrote:

This season the two biggest stars in baseball have both been shown to be/have been dopers. That's a sport with a massive amount swept under the carpet. I talk about it a little in my blog (link below).

You just have to look at the extent of the "penalty" the most recent chappie got to make a case for how much they just don't give a carp. :roll:

DonDaddyD

On the subject of other sports and drugs. Drugs in sports are bad.

I agree that drugs are rampant in other sports (Athletics immediately spring to mind). I also think the heavy publicity and press accusations of drug abuse in cycling is detrimental. But its good that they don't sweep it under the carpet like other sports. For example...

Most people forget that Rio Ferdinand (high profile England defender) was banned for missing a drugs test. Or that Adrian Mutu was banned and had his contract ripped up by Chelsea for drug abuse (and that wasn't performance enhancing) or that most of the Dutch team including Edgar Davids (Dutch all time great midfielder) was band for a year for drugs.

I also think that each sport has its own regualtions and lists of what drugs can and can't be used (with Athletics being the most strigent).

jonginge

cjcp wrote:

Shoulder of Orion wrote:

cjcp wrote:

On the drugs issue, I think we'd be slightly naive to think it didn't go in other professional sports beyond the amount that's reported in the press. Also, somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd be surprised if there's the level of testing in, for example, football and rugby that there is in cycling.

Yes but the performance boost you get from drugs in cycling makes all the difference. If you give a footballer drugs it ain't really gonna help him dribble like ronaldo is it? Score more goals? Make better saves? The performance advantage in football, rugby or tennis are not that great, maybe better stamina or acceleration but it's not going to make the crucial difference in terms of scoring goals / trys / points etc.

That's a good point. I say that, not because I don't know a thing about drugs, but because I read an article recently about how certain drugs only help at altitude e.g. viagra. (I guess if you're playing against Bolivia away, Viagra is the first thing in your kit bag.)

Jon - what was Schumacher on? Did he use that for the TT (that wasn't altitude, was it?)?

CERA, long half-life means longer time to be detected. The numpties thought there wasn't a test for. Har, har.

Not sure I subscribe to the 'it's only useful for endurance sports' thing. Football, amongst other things, is an endurance sport. If you are less tired you are more able to perform skillful operations... Also, if you look at some the stuff that came out of the Balco investigations sprinters were using EPO. In fact they used anything that enables you to train more and harder. As for Operation Puerto I guess we'll never know which spanish footballers and tennis stars were involved (250 names, only the cyclists named and chased)

jonginge

DonDaddyD wrote:

On the subject of other sports and drugs. Drugs in sports are bad.

I agree that drugs are rampant in other sports (Athletics immediately spring to mind). I also think the heavy publicity and press accusations of drug abuse in cycling is detrimental. But its good that they don't sweep it under the carpet like other sports. For example...

Most people forget that Rio Ferdinand (high profile England defender) was banned for missing a drugs test. Or that Adrian Mutu was banned and had his contract ripped up by Chelsea for drug abuse (and that was performance enhancing) or that most of the Dutch team including Edgar Davids (Dutch all time great midfielder) was band for a year for drugs.

I also think that each sport has its own regualtions and lists of what drugs can and can't be used (with Athletics being the most strigent).

Each sport that wants to be in the olympics needs to sign up to WADA controls. They have a list and testing protocols, including out of comp. and whereabouts. FIFA/UEFA are trying to get out of a lot of those provisions and may get thrown out of the olympics as a result. We'll see what happens