Etape De Dales

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  • skiingsimon
    skiingsimon Posts: 18
    Did my first Etape du Dales this year and really enjoyed it. Came in at 8:45, which won't set the world on fire, but beat my planned time by 15 mins so I'm happy with that. Some great ascents and some terrifying descents. How the hell do people go at that speed and not lose their bottle? I topped at 45mph off the top of Fleet Moss and slowed down for the rest of the ride when I saw someone wobble at 55mph. God only knows what would have happened if he'd lost control. Excellent roads compared to the usual poor quality I experience in the Chilterns. And the lack of traffic was fab too! Very well run on the day so thanks to all who contributed to that. Would love to come back next year to beat my time.
  • Datameister
    Datameister Posts: 33
    skiingsimon wrote:
    God only knows what would have happened if he'd lost control.

    There would have been a very long stain on the road. As it was there was a very short one elsewhere.

    That is one scary descent, I hit 55 wobbling like hell and someone still blitzed past me. Likewise there were red hot rims on the descent to Nateby, and having blown the front through excessive heat on the Coal Road last year, I stopped twice on the way down. Wuss!!
  • skiingsimon
    skiingsimon Posts: 18
    Here's a dilemma

    Etape du Dales website shows vertical ascent of 3,540m
    Mate's cycle computer on the day showed vertical ascent of 3,000m
    ProCycling this month shows vertical ascent of 2,540m

    What is it? Anyone know? Is that another ProCycling typo?
  • bigal.
    bigal. Posts: 479
    My Suunto recorded a total ascent of 3010mtrs so my money is on your mates computer. I have had these debates before and generally find that any mapping software used to calculate mtrs climbed misses quite a lot of detail and also some organisers tend to up the mtrs of climbing to raise the profile of the route.

    What computer was your mate using on his bike.
  • skiingsimon
    skiingsimon Posts: 18
    Hi bigal, my mate was using a Polar CS600. And there was I hoping that the EdD was roughly the same vertical as this year's Etape du Tour. If it's around 800m less then I'll have to step up the training some more.
  • Datameister
    Datameister Posts: 33
    Possibly only about 250m less, but the Etape will not have anything over 15%, and certainly not 25%
  • skiingsimon
    skiingsimon Posts: 18
    Anyone found any photos of this event yet?
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    skiingsimon wrote:
    Etape du Dales website shows vertical ascent of 3,540m
    Mate's cycle computer on the day showed vertical ascent of 3,000m
    ProCycling this month shows vertical ascent of 2,540m
    What is it?
    bigal. wrote:
    My Suunto recorded a total ascent of 3010mtrs so my money is on your mates computer. I have had these debates before and generally find that any mapping software used to calculate mtrs climbed misses quite a lot of detail and also some organisers tend to up the mtrs of climbing to raise the profile of the route.
    I didn’t ride the Dales but know the area from frequently driving between Durham or Richmond to SW Lancs, often along the small roads used in the event, and I just couldn’t believe it when I read contributor Andy Jones' claim, in last week’s Cycling Weekly, that the event had 3620 metres climbing. I still don’t.
    I’d have guessed about 2400 m, so I’d go with ProCycling’s figure.

    While mapping software does miss much, especially if you map the route at large scale, I can also well imagine that some cycle computers can be sensitive enough to record every little bump and come up with a ridiculous and meaningless high figure. Over a route as long as the Dales was, you only need a level road to fluctuate on average about 20” every 100 yards, and the computer to pick this up, and you’ve got 1000 m climbing.
  • tony macaroni
    tony macaroni Posts: 12
    From my stats and my mates records, I'd go with about 3100m of climbing.

    When compared to other rides e.g. WRC, DLMC, Dales Grimpeur this feels about right
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Over a route as long as the Dales was, you only need a level road to fluctuate on average about 20” every 100 yards, and the computer to pick this up, and you’ve got 1000 m climbing.
    You still had to climb it so it counts. Most good computers are fairly acurate on ascent. They tend to loose a bit of descent unless the data is taken very often. My CS400 will often loose 100mtr of descent on a long ride.
    My Fleet.
  • knedlicky
    knedlicky Posts: 3,097
    John.T wrote:
    Over a route as long as the Dales was, you only need a level road to fluctuate on average about 20” every 100 yards, and the computer to pick this up, and you’ve got 1000 m climbing.
    You still had to climb it so it counts. Most good computers are fairly acurate on ascent. They tend to loose a bit of descent unless the data is taken very often. My CS400 will often loose 100mtr of descent on a long ride.
    So if I ride from Spalding to King’s Lynn and back twice (ca. 180 km), and because the road undulates a little, my altimeter computer registers I’ve climbed 1000 m, I can go and claim my polka dot jersey? :wink:

    I know from hiking friends that you can’t always trust altimeters. One told me once when he picnicked and didn’t move for 30 mins, his registered a 50 m difference in elevation, presumably because of a slight weather change. And all the hikers say the greater sensitivity the altimeter has, the greater the possible end error, often about 15%. For this reason, those who also cycle prefer a 10 m sensitivity rather than a 1 m sensitivity.

    Apparently the error is always too many meters if the weather is cool, and even more meters if the weather isn’t just cool but also cooler than normal for the altitude. The photos of the Dales suggest it was on the cool side that day, despite some sunshine.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    I think your 1000 mtr is a bit over the top. There will be some error but it will not be a lot. I plotted a 45 mile hilly route that I use quite a lot on Bikehike using the Google road follower and it was only 50 mtr different from the Polar. The polar has never shown more than 100 mtr out no matter what the weather.
    As all altimeters work on barometric pressure any change in this will affect readings. You are right that cooler weather will give denser air and alter the profile but a good altimeter will have an algorithm built in to cover this.
    I still say that if the road went up them I had to climb which takes more energy than on the flat. I also notice that I can freewheel down even the smallest hill if I want to.
    I have also used my Polar on the track at Manchester. It shows the climb on the bankings which I can also feel in my legs. I would not call it mountainous but it sure aint flat.
    My Fleet.

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