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Training/Fitness - Recovery after hills/fast bursts

spicypedrospicypedro Posts: 17
edited May 2009 in Road beginners
I'm pretty new to road cycling. I'm 6'4", over 19st and not mega fit, although I can get about a bit.

Earlier in the year I was convinced to sign up for a 100mile charity ride this summer and in training for that I've got the bug. I'm loving road cycling now.

I've been going out on the weekly training rides with my LBS. They're a pretty quick lot (by my standards) averaging about 22/23mph. I can generally hang on for about 15-16miles of the 40mile route before I just can't keep up any more.

I'm getting further every week before dropping off the back - so my fitness is obviously improving, but my main problem is recovery. When we hit a hill, they race up it - I go as fast as I can and then push hard to catch the back of the pack. Of course when I've caught them I'm puffing and panting and my speed goes down.

This then starts a vicious circle of slowing down, catching up, being too knackered to keep up and slowing down again.

So my question is, how do I improve this. How can I train myself to recover quicker after hills or fast spurts?

Posts

  • peanut1978peanut1978 Posts: 1,031
    Interval training may help you.

    Either on road or turbo trainer
  • FSR_XCFSR_XC Posts: 2,258
    Go out with a different group that ride at a slower pace.

    It's an endurance ride you're training for, not a race.
    Stumpjumper FSR 09/10 Pro Carbon, Genesis Vapour CX20 ('17)Carbon, Rose Xeon CW3000 '14, Raleigh R50

    http://www.visiontrack.com
  • MettanMettan Posts: 2,103
    spicypedro wrote:
    I'm pretty new to road cycling. I'm 6'4", over 19st and not mega fit, although I can get about a bit.

    Earlier in the year I was convinced to sign up for a 100mile charity ride this summer and in training for that I've got the bug. I'm loving road cycling now.

    I've been going out on the weekly training rides with my LBS. They're a pretty quick lot (by my standards) averaging about 22/23mph. I can generally hang on for about 15-16miles of the 40mile route before I just can't keep up any more.

    I'm getting further every week before dropping off the back - so my fitness is obviously improving, but my main problem is recovery. When we hit a hill, they race up it - I go as fast as I can and then push hard to catch the back of the pack. Of course when I've caught them I'm puffing and panting and my speed goes down.

    This then starts a vicious circle of slowing down, catching up, being too knackered to keep up and slowing down again.

    So my question is, how do I improve this. How can I train myself to recover quicker after hills or fast spurts?

    It sounds like you're doing quite well - maybe some weight-loss in combination with regular hilly riding? For a 100 miler, make sure you get in one or two 60 milers in the interim (in addition to regular shorter rides).
  • InfamousInfamous Posts: 1,130
    FSR_XC wrote:
    Go out with a different group that ride at a slower pace.

    It's an endurance ride you're training for, not a race.
    sorry but bollocks, if you ride with a slow group you'll take it easy and won't improve as much. he said himself how he is getting better with each ride, so keep it up!
  • spicypedrospicypedro Posts: 17
    Infamous wrote:
    FSR_XC wrote:
    Go out with a different group that ride at a slower pace.

    It's an endurance ride you're training for, not a race.
    sorry but bollocks, if you ride with a slow group you'll take it easy and won't improve as much. he said himself how he is getting better with each ride, so keep it up!

    Yeah, to be honest I'd rather work towards keeping up with the fast group than have an easier ride altogether.

    My fitness is improving week on week. Last night I managed 20miles before dropping off the back of the group and then did another 24miles on my own. I felt fine afterwards too, which is a big improvement on previous weeks.

    I'm going to give that interval training a look, possibly after I lose the group next week, and I'm definitely trying to lose a bit of bulk.

    Distance wise I've already done a 60miler and hope to get more than a few in before the big one. I was hoping to be riding 80/90milers before then.

    Thanks for your advice folks.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    Infamous wrote:
    FSR_XC wrote:
    Go out with a different group that ride at a slower pace.

    It's an endurance ride you're training for, not a race.
    sorry but bollocks, if you ride with a slow group you'll take it easy and won't improve as much. he said himself how he is getting better with each ride, so keep it up!

    It's not bollocks at all - FSR is absolutely right. Ditch the fast group and start getting out on some longer, steady-pace rides which don't blow you out after 15 miles.

    Aerobic capabity is what is needed on a distance ride, not anaerobic....
  • InfamousInfamous Posts: 1,130
    Ok then, ride slower spicey, that will have you keeping up with the fast boys in no time. :roll:

    He is stressing the aerobic system a lot when he tries to ride hard with the fast group, which is why he is improving. Why change that?
  • spicypedrospicypedro Posts: 17
    softlad wrote:
    Infamous wrote:
    FSR_XC wrote:
    Go out with a different group that ride at a slower pace.

    It's an endurance ride you're training for, not a race.
    sorry but bollocks, if you ride with a slow group you'll take it easy and won't improve as much. he said himself how he is getting better with each ride, so keep it up!

    It's not bollocks at all - FSR is absolutely right. Ditch the fast group and start getting out on some longer, steady-pace rides which don't blow you out after 15 miles.

    Aerobic capabity is what is needed on a distance ride, not anaerobic....

    I did think "bollocks" was a bit strong actually. Still, I feel I'm getting something from the fast group rides. I might look into what slower-paced groups there are in the area on a different night.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    Infamous wrote:
    Ok then, ride slower spicey, that will have you keeping up with the fast boys in no time. :roll:

    He is stressing the aerobic system a lot when he tries to ride hard with the fast group, which is why he is improving. Why change that?

    the guy is riding a long distance charity event....why would he need to be 'keeping up with the fast boys' on a 40 mile chain gang...??

    doesn't sound like you understand the difference between aerobic and anaerobic...
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    spicypedro wrote:

    I did think "bollocks" was a bit strong actually. Still, I feel I'm getting something from the fast group rides. I might look into what slower-paced groups there are in the area on a different night.

    you will obviously get some benefit from the fast rides - but nothing that will really help you ride 100 miles. Start targeting some steady, 3-4 hour rides at a pace you can live with...and go from there...
  • spicypedrospicypedro Posts: 17
    softlad wrote:

    you will obviously get some benefit from the fast rides - but nothing that will really help you ride 100 miles. Start targeting some steady, 3-4 hour rides at a pace you can live with...and go from there...

    Thanks softlad.

    I'm out on a 60miler this Sunday which will be a more sedate pace, I reckon. I'm certainly not relying on the group rides as my only training.

    It started out as just training for the 100, but to be honest it's turned into a bit more than that. I'm enjoying getting fitter and getting more experience/technique on the bike. I'm not going to pack it in after I hand the cash over to the charity. I'm hooked.
  • markos1963markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    I hate sitting on the fench but why can't he do both? Go out with the fast boys and have some fun then go out on his own to do the long slow endurance work. This is similar to what I am now doing and I am finding that my riding this season is coming on far better than last. As the OP has said he is improving each week so he obviously has the incentive to do the work and isn't being put off by being dropped, I think there is a lot of riders out there who are willing to just bimble along and not push harder to reach their goals. Cavendish,Wiggens etc didn't get to their level just on talent and slow riding, they put themselves on the line and pushed past the normal barriers. If the OP is keeping up for half of a pretty fast ride and going further each week he'll be racing in 4th cat before he knows it.
  • sampras38sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    edited May 2009
    spicypedro wrote:
    I'm pretty new to road cycling. I'm 6'4", over 19st and not mega fit, although I can get about a bit.

    Earlier in the year I was convinced to sign up for a 100mile charity ride this summer and in training for that I've got the bug. I'm loving road cycling now.

    I've been going out on the weekly training rides with my LBS. They're a pretty quick lot (by my standards) averaging about 22/23mph. I can generally hang on for about 15-16miles of the 40mile route before I just can't keep up any more.

    I'm getting further every week before dropping off the back - so my fitness is obviously improving, but my main problem is recovery. When we hit a hill, they race up it - I go as fast as I can and then push hard to catch the back of the pack. Of course when I've caught them I'm puffing and panting and my speed goes down.

    This then starts a vicious circle of slowing down, catching up, being too knackered to keep up and slowing down again.

    So my question is, how do I improve this. How can I train myself to recover quicker after hills or fast spurts?

    Sounds like you've already made some good progress so just keep doing what you're doing. There's no magic formula and in my experience it's something that will take a while to build up. Just keep putting in the miles and try as many hills as you can and it'll come. I was in a similar position to you about a year ago where I was pretty much starting from scratch, although I've always been into fitness so I had a pretty good base to work with. I've gone from about 15st 9 to 12 9, and can now hold my own with the quicker groups and leaders, even up the hills. I struggled to start with but just kept going, either on my own or with a couple of pretty good club riders. I started out hating hills and now I hunt them out and actually prefer them to long flat rides. If you have any hills where you are, try doing them a couple of times, or if they are too steep, do sections of them. With a bit of practice you'll be suprised what you can do.

    I mix up longer weekend rides with the odd shorter quicker ride in the week, plus Turbo sessions, and I'm training for the Dragon 190km sportive in june.
  • nasahapleynasahapley Posts: 717
    softlad wrote:
    the guy is riding a long distance charity event....why would he need to be 'keeping up with the fast boys' on a 40 mile chain gang...??

    doesn't sound like you understand the difference between aerobic and anaerobic...

    But can't you only keep anaerobic efforts up for relatively short durations (say a minute or so)? So while there may certainly be anaerobic bursts on a 40-mile chaingang ride, most of what you'll be doing is still aerobic, surely? Totally agree that to get ready for a 100 miler long steady rides need to be ridden, even if only to get used to being in the saddle for 5+ hours and to figure out nutritional stuff. But to say there's not much to be gained from shorter, harder efforts too seems wide of the mark. In fact my own experience leads me to believe that doing short hard efforts can lead to substantial improvements over longer distances.

    Spicy, it sounds to me like you've got exactly the right idea and will make mincemeat of your 100-miler!
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    Do both, easy.
    I do hard fast rides with a group and do the steady stuff on my own when convenient.
    The fast rides get me fit ready to race, then as I race do not ride everyweekend with them.
    The steady rides I do midweek alone from 40 to 70 miles.
    Then if I enter a sportive or long event I am rpepared for that also.
    I do not prepare for particular individul events for weeks on end.
    I stay prepared for races and track but if I want to do an endurance event, as I do long rides with the fast guys also (80 to 90 miles) that is also plenty for a long event with a couple of longer rides done fow a couple of weeks before.
    You will improve weekly and I would be amazed if you did not loose wight rapidly riding with these guys at that pace with some steadier longer rides also.
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