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4 digits for a little bit of Kharma

DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited June 2009 in Commuting chat
I went to Luciano cycles yesterday...

Bumped into Greg66 and family, seem lovely. He was buying energy bars I had just test ridden two bikes and was in the midsts of making a purchase...

Bikes

OK this isn't a direct comparison between two bikes as one bike clearly had a higher spec than the other. This is just my views on two bikes I test rode:

I tried the Mortirolo and I have to say that it is a great bike. Its light, fitted me perfectly, provided total comfort from a near impossibly smooth ride and accelerating was effortless. For me however it felt too refined, too perfect and overall a little ghey!

The Kuota by comparison was sporty, hard, rigid, stiff, uncomprimising and if I had to be honest a little vulgar.

Both bikes felt like I could ride all day but for different reasons. The Mortirolo felt pleasurable as though there would be no stress riding it fast or slow for many many miles whether uphill or down hill. The Kuota was demanding and very rewarding when the effort was put in.

After test riding the Kuota I felt like I had been in a scuffle and eager for round 2, 3, 4 and so on... I could have serious fun with this bike.

Groupsets:

Veloce on the Mortirolo at around £1300+ this is a real bargain, I would and will recommend this bike to everyone who asks what carbon fibre? However you really do have to be a Campag person to get along with the groupset. For me the hood design was frankly wrong and the shifters themselves flimsy. I'm not comparing this to the Ultegra SL on the Kuota but my Sora Shifters with Tiagra rear mech on my Giant SCR3.

Ultegra SL on the Kuota, in all fairness I didn't really get on with the Ultegra BUT only because it felt like I needed to ride the break and break neck speeds to truly enjoy the smooth silky shifting. It did however, bring some much needed refinement and class to the raw Kuota frame.

Wheels

Fulcrum Racing 7 on the Mortirolo and Racing 5 on the Kuota. You either love or hate that Fulcrum sound, I love it so for me its like choosing between sleeping with the Worlds sexiest women or her slightly less inhibitioned twin sister...

Needless to say I will be taking delivery of a Kuota Kharma next week 8)

(Pictures to follow)
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Posts

  • nice . ive been eyeing up the kuota kebel in the white/black/red 09 colours my freindly LBS says they will do it for £1700 :shock:

    anyone wanna buy a wife.....
  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    Enregy schmenergy bars. Useless piles o' censored *

    So, there I am, queuing to buy something better placed to be hung in the garden for bords to peck at, and a water bottle to replace the ones of mine stolen by Mrs. G66 (and lost by her) and the G66 juniors, and who should I spy? DDD looking *precisely" like a man who has just dropped a large amount of cash on his credit card and is worried about being found out.

    Small world indeed.

    So, how long before the Kharma is going to be used in anger in SCR-action?


    * not really
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 20,049
    WTF is going on here people i'm seriously behind on the carbon super power front, this is not happening :?

    Wife fetch me my LARGE credit card :lol:
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    @Greg66, what is this credit card you speak of? Pennies my friend, a 1p piece saved everyday for **** days for this exact moment. I would have been highly embarrased had the card been declined.... would have ran out of the shop crying and screaming!

    @ITB, you're letting the side down! Aluminium was so last year! Lol!
    nice . ive been eyeing up the kuota kebel in the white/black/red 09 colours my freindly LBS says they will do it for £1700 :shock:

    anyone wanna buy a wife.....

    Go for the Kharma 105 for £1500... Same carbon different weave...
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    Nice one DDD! We await pictures...
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    For me the hood design was frankly wrong and the shifters themselves flimsy.

    Having had both Veloce and Ultegra, and since I spend a lot of time on the hoods, this is one of the reasons I'm not convinced I'll buy Campag again.

    <ducks>

    If you find the ride a little too stiff through the saddle, you can always change the saddle. When the SLR went on my Scott, I replaced it with a BG Alias 155. It's not as racey, and a bit heavier, but it makes longer rides much more comfortable.

    Awaiting the pictures!
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 20,049
    He said what!?! :shock:
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • cjcpcjcp Posts: 13,345
    Yup. But, if Shimano is still much more expensive than Campag when I next come to change the groupset on the Scott, I may go for Campag.
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • itboffinitboffin Posts: 20,049
    I've just bought campag wheels which means I have to either change mechs or build a new bike :wink:
    Rule #5 // Harden The censored Up.
    Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.
    Rule #12 // The correct number of bikes to own is n+1.
    Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
  • Go for the Kharma 105 for £1500... Same carbon different weave...[/quote]

    i do love the kharma but ...the kebel with ultegra sl and spinergy stealth pbo clinchers for £1700 :shock: with this spec is it not usually over 2 grand .....
  • tardingtontardington Posts: 1,379
    All this bike money flying about!

    Can we start a paypal charity that means you sort of people will pay for my sort of brakepads? It would make the SCR more, uh, populus?
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Go for the Kharma 105 for £1500... Same carbon different weave...

    i do love the kharma but ...the kebel with ultegra sl and spinergy stealth pbo clinchers for £1700 :shock: with this spec is it not usually over 2 grand .....[/quote]

    Where!? Luciano is selling the Kebel with 105 for £1700, I think Primera is about the same...

    @Tardie, what brake pads do you want? Cool-stops are supposedly the SCR riders choice.

    We may spend money on our bikes but make sacrifices elsewhere... Unless you're LiTs of course in her case she has to find new things to spend her money on..... :roll:
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • a place called leslie bike shop .bankhead ind estate . glenrothes.fife.
    this is my local LBS and i am a very regular customer once a week sometimes twice a week so they wont do this price for everyone.
    soooo tempting :? :? :? :?
  • il_principeil_principe Posts: 9,152
    Congrats on the (soon to be) new arrival DDD...
    2015 Canyon Aeroad CF SLX
    2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX
    2020 Canyon Inflite SL 7
    On the Strand
    Crown Stables
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Dear all,

    So that you are all kept informed, as I'm very sure you're interested. My Kharma has arrived at the bike shop and is being 'hand' built today. I'm going to collect it either tomorrow or Saturday. :D

    Yours truly

    DonDaddyD, Cabon Super Power Member
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • vanquishedvanquished Posts: 66
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    So that you are all kept informed, as I'm very sure you're interested. My Kharma has arrived at the bike shop and is being 'hand' built today. I'm going to collect it either tomorrow or Saturday. :D

    I don't know about you, but if the bike shop rang me to tell me that my carbon-fibre masterpiece was ready on Friday, I doubt that I would have the colossal volumes of self-control to say 'cheers mate, I'll wait and pick it up at the weekend...' :-)
    2008 carrera vanquish - FCN: 8
    2009 giant bowery 72 - FCN: 5
  • greg66_tri_v2.0greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Dear all,

    So that you are all kept informed, as I'm very sure you're interested. My Kharma has arrived at the bike shop and is being 'hand' built today. I'm going to collect it either tomorrow or Saturday. :D

    Yours truly

    DonDaddyD, Cabon Super Power Member

    £10 to anyone who wants the address of Luciano. £15 if you can prove you've got form for arson. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    vanquished wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    So that you are all kept informed, as I'm very sure you're interested. My Kharma has arrived at the bike shop and is being 'hand' built today. I'm going to collect it either tomorrow or Saturday. :D

    I don't know about you, but if the bike shop rang me to tell me that my carbon-fibre masterpiece was ready on Friday, I doubt that I would have the colossal volumes of self-control to say 'cheers mate, I'll wait and pick it up at the weekend...' :-)

    To be honest, I'm a little scared... :oops:
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • Christophe3967Christophe3967 Posts: 1,200
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Dear all,

    So that you are all kept informed, as I'm very sure you're interested. My Kharma has arrived at the bike shop and is being 'hand' built today. I'm going to collect it either tomorrow or Saturday. :D

    Yours truly

    DonDaddyD, Cabon Super Power Member

    Yeay!

    This is the DDD Express to Epsom, calling at Richmond, Kingston, Esher, Cobham, Ockham, Shere, Peaslake, Abinger, Coldharbour, Dorking, Westhumble and Box Hill. Then fast to Epsom. Passengers boarding this service will have their scalps removed and are liable to a penalty fare. Please stand well clear and mind the gap.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Diary of a wanton cyclist!

    Day 8 and still no Kharma.

    Saturday 9th May 2009

    I woke up at 5am, I couldn't sleep. I nudged my girlfriend in the hope, but she wasn't having any of it. I lay there on my bed, flat on my back staring at the ceiling. It’s off white colour swirled as my mind drifted in a reverie.

    There was I in a multicoloured jersey on a bike, pedalling away on an open road surrounded by lushes green and covered by an open blue sky. I couldn’t see where the road began or where it ended. There was nothing but me a bike and freedom. I’ve had this ‘dream’ before, many times over the course of nearly two decades; it is my happy place.

    I check my watch 6.03am and I’m more restless than ever, I get up and tidy the living room, bathroom, kitchen, clean the oven and wash some clothes. My girlfriend gets up in a hump as I’m being noisy.

    “Just get the *ucking bike” she says.

    I shower eat something dance between what to wear for 45mins – I want to look good for the Kharma. I put my shoes and new pedals in my knog bag and set off for the post office as its holding my new white Selle Italia gel flow seat – All of which is intended for the Kharma.

    The post office is empty so I’m in and out quickly and set off to Wimbledon Train station for a train to Clapham Junction. On the way to the train station I find I’m getting short of breath.

    “Sh*t, I’ve been running” I think to myself.

    So excited I actually didn’t realise I had been running to the train station. I get to the train station, buy a ticket, jump on a train, get to Clapham Junction and am at Luciano Cycles far quicker than it has taken me to write this.

    I stand outside the bike shop for a few moments to compose myself, I look at the bikes that could have been in my possession and notice the two Kharma’s in the Window. Both have my groupset but are ‘rolling’ on Shimano R500.

    I go in ask for my bike and the very nice and very helpful chap directs me to the Kharma’s in the Window.

    “OK they ain’t mine” I say.

    He looks at me

    “Mine has Fulcrum 5, that’s what it had when I test rode it, that’s what I paid for”.

    He was understanding. I still feel that Luciano Cycles is a good bike shop, mistakes happen and this isn’t entirely their fault. T0he distributor sends the bike with whatever wheels, apparently, I just happened to pay for a bike on a good wheel day.

    I try to haggle, firstly an upgrade to Mavic Ksyrium Equipe and then contemplated asking for Askium’s, but I want my Fulcrum hub sound.

    I left with no bike and a wait until they can source me a pair of Fulcrum Racing 5’s, which is fine I suppose, except I wanted to ride my bike on Saturday 9 May!

    Ah well, maybe next week.

    So very dejected. :cry:
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    DDD, I feel your pain. Returning from Australia to a distinct lack of Viner was a similar expericence, but trust me it's worth the wait.

    Patience, young Jedi.
  • always_tyredalways_tyred Posts: 4,965
    You nudged your gf int he hope of what? That she'd go check to see if the post had arrived?
  • lost_in_thoughtlost_in_thought Posts: 10,563
    DDD there are kuota sunnies on Ebay...

    In case you want to feed your inner tart...
  • nudged your girlfriend in the hope of her making your breakfast no wonder she had the hump :P
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    LiT, I should have a 5 pair of Kuota Sunnies sent to me by the Kuota distributor... if not could be tempted but I seem to have a money leak at the moment and may go a month without spending...
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • gtvlussogtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    DDD - I am seriously considering a Kharma now! Found a frameset for £749 from Primera...I have Ultegra groupset and Ritchey finishing kit.....

    I am very jealous though and may have to speak to my bank manager.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    gtvlusso wrote:
    DDD - I am seriously considering a Kharma now! Found a frameset for £749 from Primera...I have Ultegra groupset and Ritchey finishing kit.....

    I am very jealous though and may have to speak to my bank manager.

    Would you get the 2009 or 2007/08 Kharma frame? the guy in Luciano Cycles said that he used to commute on a Pinnerello Prince (old school alu/carbon one) and his 07 Kharma rode better than that.

    My advice

    Try before you buy. I tried it and the Wilier Mortirolo and have to say that the Mortirolo (large frame) fitted better, was more comfortable (like it had air cushion suspension) and accelerated easier than the Kharma.

    I got the 2009 Kharma frame because it (the huge head tube and sizable bottom bracket) screamed out 'more to give' and 'faster'. By the end of the test ride I really wanted to get clipless pedals on it to really give it a thrashing.

    Some people may not want the stiff racey feel of the Kharma. *Note* That this is only my perspective of the ride on a Kharma and I'm not exactly experienced with Carbon Frames.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • So you got that bike over one that fitted better and was more comfortable? Have I read that correctly?
    Cannondale F500
    Peugeot Fixed Gear
    Specialized Hardrock
    Baordman Team Carbon
    Haro Freestyler Sport 1984
    Coming Soon...Canyon Nerve AM 7.0
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    So you got that bike over one that fitted better and was more comfortable? Have I read that correctly?

    Yes. However, the immediate comfort and fit of the Mortirolo wasn't enough for me to want to buy it. There were negatives. Needless to say the Kharma in and of itself wasn't uncomfortable or fitted poorly at most it just needed to be adjusted.

    But for me what swung it was how each bike left me feeling:

    After I got off the Mortirolo I felt like that was it, I don't need to ride it again.

    After riding the Kharma I felt a weird sense of achievement. I went up a hill (something I loathe doing) and I wanted to do it again only faster and on a steeper hill. I actually didn't want to stop riding the Kharma even on a test ride with flat pedals. The difference in ride was stunning.

    The Kharma was more me.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • gtvlussogtvlusso Posts: 5,112
    DDD - cheers for the advice. I will see if I can get a test somewhere. To be honest, it won't be a commuting bike, so, comfort is not required - the sucker is gonna race! I am more tempted by a home build than a built bike (as then I will know who built it and how well it was built!)

    I was gonna get a cheap Karbona frame from ebay, but the Kharma looks as though it has a full geometry - horizontal top tube, something I prefer. Never been a fan of compact or semi compact geometry as it can make the bike really twitchy.
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