Fixed Penalty Notice... offence H242

SimonLyons

I have a 35 mile round trip commute which I do once twice a week into Nottingham.
~300-400 yards was on (quiet) pavements due to one way systems. I always did these bits very slowly - stop for pedestrians if there are any.
I would never cycle down a busy footpath.

Yesterday... ~4:30pm
Along came two CPOs and wait for cyclists. Slaps a fixed penalty notice on 30pounds.
It almost felt as they were trying to do me a favour.
I was vey polite.

I have some opposing feelings.
1.In the eyes of the law I was wrong. I wouldn't argue with this.
2.I am looking to try and change my route. Maybe I was too comfortable with the last/first bit of the route. This will involve more interfacing with traffic.I have had fag ends thrown at me, been buzzed by cars when on the roads around this area.
3.If all the pavement cyclists are forced onto the roads how many more road rage - traffic accidents would occur.
4.It seems a very open law which can be applied very harshly if a council wants to and can be used very successfully to raise revenue. Nottingham did lose 50million in the Icelandic crisis.
5.How may CPO's have ever ridden a bike?
Slightly off track, my daughter did a cycling proficiency test at her school and was told thre wasn't enough grip on one of her tyres because the front one was different to the back one. The one with 'no grip' was about a month old.

whyamihere

It's only 300-400 yards. What's wrong with getting off and walking?

oxoneil

SimonLyons wrote:

I have a 35 mile round trip commute which I do once twice a week into Nottingham.
~300-400 yards was on (quiet) pavements due to one way systems. I always did these bits very slowly - stop for pedestrians if there are any.
I would never cycle down a busy footpath.

Yesterday... ~4:30pm
Along came two CPOs and wait for cyclists. Slaps a fixed penalty notice on 30pounds.
It almost felt as they were trying to do me a favour.
I was vey polite.

I have some opposing feelings.
1.In the eyes of the law I was wrong. I wouldn't argue with this.
2.I am looking to try and change my route. Maybe I was too comfortable with the last/first bit of the route. This will involve more interfacing with traffic.I have had fag ends thrown at me, been buzzed by cars when on the roads around this area.
3.If all the pavement cyclists are forced onto the roads how many more road rage - traffic accidents would occur.
4.It seems a very open law which can be applied very harshly if a council wants to and can be used very successfully to raise revenue. Nottingham did lose 50million in the Icelandic crisis.
5.How may CPO's have ever ridden a bike?
Slightly off track, my daughter did a cycling proficiency test at her school and was told thre wasn't enough grip on one of her tyres because the front one was different to the back one. The one with 'no grip' was about a month old.A

And your point is?

always_tyred

Yup, there could be a bit of a sympathy failure on this thread.

I agree with point 1.

The unrelated point about the cycling profiency test sounds to me like the course is being taught by a teacher who has no experience of cycling, other than the booklet about the cycling proficiency test, but who is aware that mixing radials and crossply used to be a bad thing to do on your car.

SimonLyons

re : It's only 300-400 yards. What's wrong with getting off and walking?

I can't argue with this again and have thought about it.
I think its a mindset thing and I got too comfortable with what I was doing as it 'seemed' safe to me. The CPO have a 'job' to do.

I would still rather alter my route and take on the cars rather than walk.

gtvlusso

The answer is very simple: Don't ride on pavements, ever. It is not an "open" law...

Everyone gets buzzed by cars, has coffee and fags thrown at them....accept it and move on - thats the risk.

I am sorry that you have been caught, but ultimately you did have "legal" options - cycle on the road or get off and walk on the pavement.

Allez Mark

There is a CPO who rides a bike where my mother lives. I've seen him ride along the pavement at the back of the bungalows.
Maybe I should report him

roger_merriman

it is true that one does see the police and PSO doing the same and it is "do as i say not as i do" but much like doing over 70 on the motorway yes a lot of people ignore it but it is the law and not a unreasonble one if you get caught then thats that.

fletch8928

on my ride home i have a 400yd stretch of 1 way traffic that i have to go the wrong way up. i say up due to it being locally known as "cardiac hill". i hated walking up it due to people thinking i couldnt ride it. i have been heckled by people outside the local spoons with comments like "you fit b#$^@*d", usually got fat so it made me feel good. anyway 1 morning after nightshift i had mr plod stop me and even though i didnt get a fine, probably due to it being winter and very early i have started to walk with the bike up the 1 way system and now its summer and the tourists are about i now realise i could easily have been injured(narrow with a blindish corner) or injured someone(if i had to suddenly move onto the pavement to make way for a car). its not worth it for a few extra seconds off the bike. sometimes i go the long way round to miss it out altogether

jeepie

3.If all the pavement cyclists are forced onto the roads how many more road rage - traffic accidents would occur.

Actually it would be much safer for all cyclists. Safety in numbers and greater awareness of cyclists on the road.

highwaymunky

Hey, I think that at one time or other we all bend / break the rules for the sake of feeling safe / keeping up momentum, if you get caught, you get caught, take it on the chin and carry on.

A PSO riding the same bit of foot way as me once started tell me off for doing it and having a flashing rear light, what ya gonna do. They have jobs to do. Next time he'll have to catch me 1st!

Allez Mark

There is a CPO who rides a bike where my mother lives. I've seen him ride along the pavement at the back of the bungalows.
Maybe I should report him

defdaz

In Bristol a great many paths are designated cycle paths, making it difficult(ish!) to know which we're allowed to ride on and which we aren't. I can't imagine CPO's handing out any fines here. Still hate the place, mind!

sarajoy

Hate Brizzle? Aww, why?

Agreed, tons of pavements around the centre have those little shared path signs on them. Particularly hard to know when it stops and starts around Temple Meads...

defdaz

Three motorcycles stolen in the last year, one car written off through attempted theft four weeks ago (police caught them red-handed and just cautioned them!!!), other cars damaged via for sale signs being rammed against them, screwdriver holes from attempted thefts, keying etc. One bicycle stolen from garden and back wheel took from another. And that's in just Southville! lol

Oh and the traffic (and v. bad drivers) is so bad - trying to drive around Bristol is like self-mutilation

Sorry if you like the place sarajoy, no offence intended

sarajoy

Blimey!

That's pretty bad Where in Southville? I've guess I've been lucky, I'm only down the road in Totterdown!

I have had two bikes stolen in Brizzle, one I'd got for free anyway, the other was one I still miss!

defdaz

Do you know Raleigh Road, the Tobacco Factory? Just there, by the Imperial Tobacco factory. I've just moved to Knowle West and had my motorcycle stolen on Tuesday. I didn't think anywhere would be worse than where I was but I have learn't my lesson

Sorry about your bicycle - gutting isn't it? What I'd like to do to these people!

BoardinBob

Ignoring the rights and wrongs of cycling on the pavement, you have to question if this is a good use of police resources?

I don't cycle on the pavement and don't think others should. On my daily commute I see lethal examples of driving, outside of speeding which is an easily punished offence. Where are the the cops standing by the roadside pulling drivers in for talking on their mobiles, eating and drinking while driving, aggressive overtaking?

Doing cyclists for riding on the pavement just seems like an easy way to generate revenue and massage the crime figures.

gtvlusso

BoardinBob wrote:

Ignoring the rights and wrongs of cycling on the pavement, you have to question if this is a good use of police resources?

I don't cycle on the pavement and don't think others should. On my daily commute I see lethal examples of driving, outside of speeding which is an easily punished offence. Where are the the cops standing by the roadside pulling drivers in for talking on their mobiles, eating and drinking while driving, aggressive overtaking?

Doing cyclists for riding on the pavement just seems like an easy way to generate revenue and massage the crime figures.

Well, don't give them the chance of making money off you - ride on the road!!

defdaz

Hear, hear BoardinBob. There's a reason why they're called The Filth I guess. :shock:

biondino

I don't think the original poster was looking for sympathy - I thought his post was very interesting and well put.

A good use of police resources? Well, assuming they fined a couple of dozen people, then the operation more than paid for itself! Personally I would love a massive crackdown on bad cycling, perhaps a specific day where forces up and down the country get their CPOs and special constables and the likes in and blitz the tossers who abuse the law. They would hopefully focus on the more brazen, dangerous or idiotic offences - not hard to do as we all know places where people completely take the p1ss - and not only would thousands of numpties get fined, but there would presumably be a lot of subsequent publicity to warn off future malefactors.

il_principe

There's an interesting subtext to all this though. The fact is that many people ride on pavements as they perceive the road to be unsafe. Now I'd love to see a crackdown on RLJ'ers, pavement riders etc, but fining people who pavement ride may not be the solution, in fact you may end up putting people off cycling all together. I'd rather see a scheme that educated new cyclists, and see more money spent on educating drivers. Whenever I meet new people and mention that I cycle in London, most say "isn't it dangerous though." My GF just started cycling and asked about pavements. I said "never" and she's learnt to ride defensively and safely. If she'd been caught on a pavement and fined in her first few weeks she'd have been put off the whole thing I reckon.

I think LBS' could spend a bit more time offering advice to people that are clearly noobs, I'm sure it'd be appreciated by most and wouldn't take long. Lets face it, if you don't know anyone that cycle commutes, and live in a town/city, then getting started can be terrifying and there's very little advice offered out there - unless you really know where to look and what to ask. It could be as simple as all London shops (for example) recommending to all newbies that they join the LCC, that at least should get people thinking.

lost_in_thought

Interesting

Before I saw the light, I was a serial RLJ-er and pavement user, for various reasons all of which I felt were entirely valid and fair.

When the police did their little thing of hanging out around a junction where loads of people RLJ'd on bikes, or where loads of people pavement-rode, or indeed one bit of Hyde Park where loads of people rode on a pedestrian path, it just used to annoy me. I'd think 'well if so many people are doing it then why not just make it legal here?' particularly on that path through Hyde Park. I still think that path should have a cycle lane.

But now I'm more experienced, and fitter, I don't RLJ or ride on the pavement, but it took me about 18 months to 2 years to get there.

What the solution is, I have no idea. If lessons had been offered, I know I wouldn't have taken them, if I'd been told to join the LCC I might have done, but don't see how it would have helped. The police definitely didn't have any impact, perhaps if they'd been a bit less aggressive and explained a bit more why it's a bad thing rather than just saying 'it's illegal' (I was aware of that) they'd have been more influential.

hisoka

I always wonder if I am pavement riding on a couple parts of my commute to be honest. ONLY because there is a cycle lane marked out just by a shared sign at one end of a long stretch of pavement, but nothing to say when it ends, if it ends or any markings on the pavement to show it is shared. Riding on the road would be possible there but I do think dangerous as it seems to have cars being slingshot off the nearest roundabout at about warp factor 7.
Never seen a police officer around to actually ask though, will do the first time I see one.

Sewinman

Sounds like a couple of jobs-worth diet police to me...who have not got the intelligence to use a bit of discretion. :roll:

biondino

Whereas I don't think the police were doing enough - they should have knocked you off your bike, "accidentally" punctured both your tyres and taco-ed both wheels before handing you the fine. It's political correctness gone mad.

BoardinBob

gtvlusso wrote:

BoardinBob wrote:

Ignoring the rights and wrongs of cycling on the pavement, you have to question if this is a good use of police resources?

I don't cycle on the pavement and don't think others should. On my daily commute I see lethal examples of driving, outside of speeding which is an easily punished offence. Where are the the cops standing by the roadside pulling drivers in for talking on their mobiles, eating and drinking while driving, aggressive overtaking?

Doing cyclists for riding on the pavement just seems like an easy way to generate revenue and massage the crime figures.

Well, don't give them the chance of making money off you - ride on the road!!

greg66_tri_v2.0

biondino wrote:

Whereas I don't think the police were doing enough - they should have knocked you off your bike, "accidentally" punctured both your tyres and taco-ed both wheels before handing you the fine. It's political correctness gone mad.

Why do you hate hippies? Fascist bully boy. The Man must love you.

Less flippantly, it strikes me that there's a pretty easy middle course for the cops/CPOs here: they monitor their chosen stretch of pavement on day 1 and hand out warnings to all offenders. Make a note of bike & rider. Day 2: same cops/CPOs. Anyone caught doing the same thing (ie ignoring the warning) gets a fine.

It's the immediate fine for something trivial that alienates people, and makes them feel that in fact the exercise is all about revenue-generation. It should primarily be about safety.

On the broader subject of safe/responsible riding by adults, I've often wondered about trying to organise what would be in effect urban traffic cycling proficiency classes for adults. Unfortunately, I doubt I'd be able to get the insurance cover for that sort of undertaking.

Perhaps an answer would be for the cops to offer offenders the choice between a fine or a course, and then volunteer to conduct the course. That said, I've seen four cop cyclists around London this week, and at least two were utter sh!te.

MrChuck

Sewinman wrote:

Sounds like a couple of jobs-worth diet police to me...who have not got the intelligence to use a bit of discretion. :roll:

Don't you think that's a bit lazy, not to mention patronizing? The jobsworth thing in particular often seems to me the last resort of someone who hasn't got their way and can't be bothered to think about the reasons why that might be the case.

ince

At the end of the day these people have a job to do. You could be lucky and get caught by an officer in a good mood who advises you in what is wrong and sends you on the way. On the flip you can have one who is stricket on the law and gives you the full hit.

The fact anyone gets caught at all is unlucky with the limited resorce the police have for doing their job.

Sewinman

MrChuck wrote:

Sewinman wrote:

Sounds like a couple of jobs-worth diet police to me...who have not got the intelligence to use a bit of discretion. :roll:

Don't you think that's a bit lazy, not to mention patronizing? The jobsworth thing in particular often seems to me the last resort of someone who hasn't got their way and can't be bothered to think about the reasons why that might be the case.

Well for a start it was not me who got the fine, so has nothing to do with 'getting my way'. Good police use discretion when applying the law and in this case they chose not to. I am quite happy to patronise PCSOs.