Tuesday evening races at Hillingdon

terongi

I was thinking of going tomorrow might (April 21) for the first time this season.

I did 3 of these last year.

Has anyone been on the last 2 Tuesdays?

If so, what was the Cat 4 field like?

felgen

Dont know about last week, but there were a few (3 I think) crashes in the first race of the series.

I really don't know why they put that chicane in the finish straight, seems like its asking for trouble from my point of view.

jibberjim

Another big crash requiring an ambulance in the finishing straight tonight, which I only just managed to avoid taking the first to falls head off, a couple of people behind did hit the fallen rider/bike.

The race was short (42 minutes) and slow (37km average I think, although both mine and my girlfriends garmin's have done very weird things with the tracklog!)

I think one of the problems is the race being so short, that anyone can sit in and make it to the sprint, even people pretty inexperienced in even handling a bike let alone riding fast in a bunch.

terongi

I was immediately behind the crash.

3 guys went down in front of me.

I just had time to swerve onto the grass, but I couldn't stay upright. Race over for me but no serious damage to me or my bike. Garmin shows I was doing 50 km/h when I hit the floor so it still hurt a bit.

I agree that the race was too slow and too short. (my garmin made it 39.3 km/h)

Jibberjim: you must have been the couple in the Kingston Wheelers jerseys?

maryka

terongi wrote:

Jibberjim: you must have been the couple in the Kingston Wheelers jerseys?

Yep, that was us.

I'm a bit annoyed with myself for watching the time on the Garmin rather than the lap board, thinking there was a lot left to go in the race. I failed to notice that we were heading for the bell lap til the bell was actually ringing, and despite riding pretty strongly up to that point, found myself well out of position to do anything in the final lap. Definitely wish it could have been longer as my legs felt great. But unless I'm in the top 5 or so coming around that final corner, I just don't have the power to put in a strong finish against all you big guys.

Then again, given the crash, maybe I'm glad to have been in the back half of the pack torwards the finish... it didn't look good and the ambulance with flashing lights turned into Springfield Rd as we were riding home. That's about the 3rd or 4th race I've done at Hillingdon that contained an ambulance-worthy crash, and I've only raced there 5 times! I wonder how long til the law of averages gets me.

And yeah it was me yelling at the Twickenham guy who was weaving all over the place, I don't know if he was involved in the crash or not but given the number of people in previous laps not holding their line through the little chicane at the top of the hill, it's not surprising that it would end as it did. Ugly stuff. Throw in the E/1/2/3s cutting across us on the hairpins as they passed by and it's a recipe for disaster. I'm not the greatest rider out there, but at least I can hold a line and when I stand up, the ass end of my bike doesn't plummet backwards then waggle around 2 feet in each direction.

But I'll be back of course. Hillingdon is still way more fun than Chertsey imo.

cirlam

unfortunately I was one of the guys that hit the floor pretty hard, and ended up in hospital. a guy went down in front of me, apparantly someone swerved and knocked his front wheel.... I collided with him and now have pretty shitty road rash along my side, which is not making sleeping very easy! Bike not in too good a shape either.

Another guy collided with me when I was down and he went flying, sounds like he had broken his collar bone.

On a side note, not sure if that twickenham guy caused it, but he sure as hell was a liability in that race, iI shouted at him a couple of times as well, he simply could not hold his line

it's not put me off...ill be back (admittably in a few weeks!)

jibberjim

Glad it's not put you off cirlam, I'll be back too, although I think I might be even more eager to get away, if I only I was stronger... or at least keep the pace high to lose a few people from the sprint.

First though, Dunsfold on saturday.

terongi

Jibberjim: I think I spoke to the 2 of you at the hut afterwards.

I was with a clubmate Nigel. We both went down in the crash, but he went down harder than me. We were wearing red London Phoenix jerseys.

I think I'll also try to break away and/or get the pace up next time I go. It would be worth spending some energy on the front earlier on to get rid of a few travellers with time to recover for later.

I won't be there next week (28th April) it's my daughters birthday, but I might be back the Tuesday after.

cirlam

Yeah i think a higher pace would be better to get rid of the stragglers. I managed to break away during the race for about 3/4 of a lap, but its bloody hard work on your own!

Yeah I had planned for dunsfold this weekend as well....even had a breakaway planned with a mate, but looks like I could be off the bike for a week or 2. Thats racing though!

jibberjim

terongi wrote:

Jibberjim: I think I spoke to the 2 of you at the hut afterwards.

I was with a clubmate Nigel. We both went down in the crash, but he went down harder than me. We were wearing red London Phoenix jerseys.

Yep! although I didn't realise you'd both gone down, Nigel presumably was the one with a fair bit of blood on his arm.

Not sure when I'll be back, but probably pretty soon.

maryka

cirlam wrote:

On a side note, not sure if that twickenham guy caused it, but he sure as hell was a liability in that race, iI shouted at him a couple of times as well, he simply could not hold his line

cirlam, sorry to hear you went down. Heal fast! It's never the guys who cause the crash who go down, it seems, only the guys haplessly behind him.

Here's (I believe) the Twickeham guy's race report, posted without comment as I've had enough of a go at the guy already. Pretty sure it's him because I do recall his sitting on the front on the back stretch and abruptly sitting up and doing no work, dangerously losing speed as he did it.

celbianchi

I have never raced at Hillingdon, but some people I know from another forum reckon someone was racing this week (and last) with their MP3 player on.

What a tool.

jibberjim

Much faster race this week, attacks all over the place, I had to bridge from a split bunch with 40m gap at the start of the 2nd lap. I think the cold made people work, certainly made me work, spent lots of time joining in the fun attacking relentlessly at the front.

Had nothing left for the sprint - but that no-one really went away from me despite the paltry watts I was putting out suggests not many people had much left for the sprint.

No crashes thankfully.

For the 2nd week running though we had someone dropped from the E/1/2/3 race joining our 4ths race and contesting the sprint. That is surely wrong! last week they were even placed in the results.

Bronzie

jibberjim wrote:

For the 2nd week running though we had someone dropped from the E/1/2/3 race joining our 4ths race and contesting the sprint. That is surely wrong! last week they were even placed in the results.

Do the riders in different races not wear different colour numbers? Would be easy to spot imposters that way. They should be DQd from the race for joining your bunch.

jibberjim

Bronzie wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

For the 2nd week running though we had someone dropped from the E/1/2/3 race joining our 4ths race and contesting the sprint. That is surely wrong! last week they were even placed in the results.

Do the riders in different races not wear different colour numbers? Would be easy to spot imposters that way. They should be DQd from the race for joining your bunch.

Yep they do! No idea why they're not disqualified and even placed in the results - which means the organisers must be see the numbers.

It's a bit annoying to have rested 3rd cats (even if they're too rubbish to hold onto the main group) chasing down breaks and joining the sprint.

terongi

Jim,

Did they run the race for the full hour this week? Last week was only about 40 minutes. I am thinking of going back to Hilllingdon this coming Tuesday.

Also what was the size of the Cat 4 field this week? About the same as last week?

jibberjim

terongi wrote:

Did they run the race for the full hour this week? Last week was only about 40 minutes. I am thinking of going back to Hilllingdon this coming Tuesday.

Also what was the size of the Cat 4 field this week? About the same as last week?

It was 46 minutes, so getting a little longer, and we started at 7:16.

Field was slightly smaller than the week before, but just by a few riders I'd say.

Dess1e

Ok

#1 Race distance / time: We are limited by daylight hours, we need to finish the 4th cats at least 2 laps before the E/1/2/3 race to enable you to clear the circuit before their finish. Using th ephotofinish, lighting is crucial, we try to give 5 laps warning, but if you have just been / about to be caught, then we may have to shorten the distance we give the warning.

#2 Other riders getting involved - this should not happen to either race, if it does the rider should sit on the back and not get involved. Again due to us pushing the lighting on the photofinish, it is not always possible to distinguish the number colour. If it happens again, please let the officials know at the finish.

#3 there were 2 Twickenham riders last week - one was obviously very inexperianced from when I rode around on the back of your race, you should learn to recognise this and perhaps give them a bit more space if possible (not always easy when sprinting I know).

Anyway well done this week - I'm about to finish the databse of the riders , and then finalise this weeks results, they should be published tomorrow. Once I've sorted the DB then they will appear sooner.

jibberjim

Thanks Dess1e !

I've certainly got no complaints on the organisation of the races, everything's very smooth! You can't be responsible for the riders, and this weeks race was a lot safer than the previous one - thanks to the speed I think.

So thanks again for all your work.

oldwelshman

jibberjim wrote:

It's a bit annoying to have rested 3rd cats (even if they're too rubbish to hold onto the main group) chasing down breaks and joining the sprint.

Too rubbish to hold on? They cannot be that rubbish if they are a 3rd and your still a 4th

jibberjim

oldwelshman wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

It's a bit annoying to have rested 3rd cats (even if they're too rubbish to hold onto the main group) chasing down breaks and joining the sprint.

Too rubbish to hold on? They cannot be that rubbish if they are a 3rd and your still a 4th

Ah, but you're assuming rubbishness is in in some way relative to my ability, but you're forgetting that I'm also rubbish!

When I'm clinging on to 9th place in a 4th cat race as my claim to cycling glory, in the corners of my mind I know I'm not really very good, but I still haven't felt the need to drop into the pack of a lower level group after getting shelled out the back of the race I'm in!

Dess1e

jibberjim wrote:

When I'm clinging on to 9th place in a 4th cat race as my claim to cycling glory, in the corners of my mind I know I'm not really very good, but I still haven't felt the need to drop into the pack of a lower level group after getting shelled out the back of the race I'm in!

Err, there isn't a lower leval group

maryka

oldwelshman wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

It's a bit annoying to have rested 3rd cats (even if they're too rubbish to hold onto the main group) chasing down breaks and joining the sprint.

Too rubbish to hold on? They cannot be that rubbish if they are a 3rd and your still a 4th

I think we can all agree that if you're a 3rd and you've entered the E/1/2/3 race, it's extremely lame and pathetic to jump on the back of the 4ths race once you've been dropped from the big race AND EVEN MORE SO to contest the sprint.

Whether the 4ths themselves are rubbish or not is another story... but suffice it to say, being a rubbish 4th racing for your first points is a whole lot more admirable than being an experienced 3rd (after all, you've got to have at least 10 points to become a 3rd?) trying to legitimise your own rubbishness by hiding in the 4ths race.

jibberjim

Dess1e wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

When I'm clinging on to 9th place in a 4th cat race as my claim to cycling glory, in the corners of my mind I know I'm not really very good, but I still haven't felt the need to drop into the pack of a lower level group after getting shelled out the back of the race I'm in!

Err, there isn't a lower leval group

Not at Hillingdon but I wouldn't do it at Chertsey or Dunsfold when the 3/4 women are on the track either - mind you as I can't manage to hold the girlfriends wheel for an hour I'd probably get shelled out the back of that one too

terongi

How was it at Hillingdon last night?

I didn't make it there myself. Interested to hear how the race went.

Dess1e

maryka wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

It's a bit annoying to have rested 3rd cats (even if they're too rubbish to hold onto the main group) chasing down breaks and joining the sprint.

Too rubbish to hold on? They cannot be that rubbish if they are a 3rd and your still a 4th

I think we can all agree that if you're a 3rd and you've entered the E/1/2/3 race, it's extremely lame and pathetic to jump on the back of the 4ths race once you've been dropped from the big race AND EVEN MORE SO to contest the sprint.

Whether the 4ths themselves are rubbish or not is another story... but suffice it to say, being a rubbish 4th racing for your first points is a whole lot more admirable than being an experienced 3rd (after all, you've got to have at least 10 points to become a 3rd?) trying to legitimise your own rubbishness by hiding in the 4ths race.

Looking at the PF image last night, it was one of the woman riders who dropped back. She could I believe legitimately sign on and race the 4ths if she wanted too.

maryka

Dess1e wrote:

maryka wrote:

oldwelshman wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

It's a bit annoying to have rested 3rd cats (even if they're too rubbish to hold onto the main group) chasing down breaks and joining the sprint.

Too rubbish to hold on? They cannot be that rubbish if they are a 3rd and your still a 4th

I think we can all agree that if you're a 3rd and you've entered the E/1/2/3 race, it's extremely lame and pathetic to jump on the back of the 4ths race once you've been dropped from the big race AND EVEN MORE SO to contest the sprint.

Whether the 4ths themselves are rubbish or not is another story... but suffice it to say, being a rubbish 4th racing for your first points is a whole lot more admirable than being an experienced 3rd (after all, you've got to have at least 10 points to become a 3rd?) trying to legitimise your own rubbishness by hiding in the 4ths race.

Looking at the PF image last night, it was one of the woman riders who dropped back. She could I believe legitimately sign on and race the 4ths if she wanted too.

Even if she originally signed up for the E/1/2/3, she would be allowed to drop back into the 4ths if things weren't going well?

I'm a 3rd cat and have raced with the 4ths, but only when I signed on for that race in the first place. Dropping back because you're having a bad night is not really cool. Personally I'd never do that, but that's just me. Still think it should be against the rules regardless of sex to drop down to a lower race once the race has started, for any reason.

Dess1e

She still should not have contested the Sprint Maryka, or got involved in the dynamics of the 4th cat race as she started with the E/1/2/3 race. Just attempting to explain how she may have ended up there.

InsideOut

She dropped back to the 4th cat race with the intention of leading out a team mate on the last lap. She did the same on a previous week to good effect - her team mate scored well up in the points (and money) because of it. Not on, in my opinion.

don key

InsideOut wrote:

She dropped back to the 4th cat race with the intention of leading out a team mate on the last lap. She did the same on a previous week to good effect - her team mate scored well up in the points (and money) because of it. Not on, in my opinion.

That should be enough to exclude her from racing there as if it is true then it is out and out cheating.

jibberjim

don key wrote:

InsideOut wrote:

She dropped back to the 4th cat race with the intention of leading out a team mate on the last lap. She did the same on a previous week to good effect - her team mate scored well up in the points (and money) because of it. Not on, in my opinion.

That should be enough to exclude her from racing there as if it is true then it is out and out cheating.

Also, as she's a woman, she could race in the 4th cat men anyway, when some team tactics would be completely welcome! So it seems a little strange.