Non-bike training to supplement my cycling

SpinningJenny

Hi all, hope you all had a great Easter break?

I have a question which I'm sure all you more experienced people can answer!

I am doing the Capital to Coast (Hove to Hove) 60 miler in June. I've been building up my distance bit by bit and fingers crossed it will all go well - especially as it is the first bike event of any distance i have ever taken part in!

My question revolves (no pun intended!) around the type of additional fitness training I should be doing to support my cycling. I go to the gym 2-3 times a week plus the cycling and up until now have been focussing on strength training. Is this still the right thing to do and should I be focussing even more on core strength to help me out even more with the bike training? I do see a fantastic trainer and will ask his advice too, but wanted to get some input from you all too.

Thanks!

softlad

skip the gym and just ride the bike - any other type of training is a diversion.....

vitesse169

I go to the gym 1-2 times per week to supplement the cycling. I use the rower, X trainer & treadmill. Also I doo plenty of abs work to help the core stability...

SpinningJenny

V funny, softlad!

Thanks, vitesse169.

ride_whenever

do loats of core stability, if you want something interesting to completment cycling then use the rowing machines at the gym.

DoubleTop

softlad wrote:

skip the gym and just ride the bike - any other type of training is a diversion.....

Here, here - 100% right

I am mostly a fair weather cyclist - don't like the cold or rain.

This year I did go out when there was snow on the floor, makes a difference if you have the right kit for the job. Currently I play squash, gym 2 times/week, swim 2 or 3 times/week, run, the odd spin class when i can and have some free weights for home use.

Nothing, except cycling on your bike outside will do any good.

Of course everything else I do will help my overal fitness, but I did my first 10 mile TT last week and didn't have the miles in my legs to get a decent time. I think you need to cycle a min of around 100 miles / week to start to see a difference. In the 7 days before my TT, I cycled only the once and that was just 35 miles (less than 2 hours on the ride - poor effort by me.)

Good question.

DT

cougie

I do a fair amount of running in the week when I havent got time to bike - it definitely helps Cardio wise.

But as the others say - specific exercise would be the best - if you can.

ride_whenever

I'm sorry, but you guys are wrong. Cross training is useful, it uses other muscles that will prevent injury, not to mention being complimentary.

Improved core strength and flexibility will improve your cycling as well, and you can't really do those on the bike.

Alex_Simmons/RST

ride_whenever wrote:

I'm sorry, but you guys are wrong. Cross training is useful, it uses other muscles that will prevent injury, not to mention being complimentary.

Improved core strength and flexibility will improve your cycling as well, and you can't really do those on the bike.

Show me the evidence that such training has any great affect on reducing the likelyhood of sustaining an injury while riding a bike.

Poor bike position and trying to do too much too quickly (along with crashing) is main cause of cycling related injuries.

You'll get the core strength you need to ride a bike from riding a bike. It doesn't take much core strength. That comes into play more for events that have a high neuromuscular demand (like MTB, or sprint events).

softlad is bang on. By all means do other things but if you are doing them at the expense of riding, then remember that nothing improves your on bike fitness more than being on the bike.

You can certainly get excellent training on an indoor trainer (best if it's your bike on a trainer).

If however it's a choice of doing those other things or not doing anything, then something is better than nothing.

zammmmo

I think ulitmately nothing is a substitue for the bike - in the ideal world we'd all like to have more time to train and would be able to recover fast enough to support this increased workload. I find cross training useful to keep motivation high and not get too stale.

Running helps to a degree and stops the rot setting in cardio-wise if you take time off the bike, but it does cause injuries much more so than cycling. I also like the fact that its alot easier to do a hard run than a hard bike run - various factors e.g. higher heart rate as its load bearing and high impact, and that it so much easier to get ready or take your kit on hols. I've done a lot of concept2 rowing in the past - I've no doubt this will help too but you'll struggle to do that much of it. Even a 10K row will probably take you less than 40 mins but it feels very beneficial when its cold and rainy outside.

Core training - not sure about that one, not done anywhere near enough. I think it would help alot with long road races or helping you hold an aero position.

Another thing. I think alot of people who ride the road are absolutely appalling bike handlers. I've started going out again with local bunch of roadies and they can't descend for sh1t, most have no idea where the limit is on corners and can't avoid obstacles very well (bunnyhopping etc...not always advisable I know on the road, especially in a group). So maybe do some mountain-biking...I think it helps you become a better cyclist.

ride_whenever

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Show me the evidence that such training has any great affect on reducing the likelyhood of sustaining an injury while riding a bike.

Poor bike position and trying to do too much too quickly (along with crashing) is main cause of cycling related injuries.

You'll get the core strength you need to ride a bike from riding a bike. It doesn't take much core strength. That comes into play more for events that have a high neuromuscular demand (like MTB, or sprint events).

softlad is bang on. By all means do other things but if you are doing them at the expense of riding, then remember that nothing improves your on bike fitness more than being on the bike.

You can certainly get excellent training on an indoor trainer (best if it's your bike on a trainer).

If however it's a choice of doing those other things or not doing anything, then something is better than nothing.

I get knee trouble due to muscle inbalances, i know several others who have had similar issues. My physio has said that the way to prevent it flaring up again is to so some specific exercises as well as adding running to my training.

I agree that positioning on the bike is very important, but ensuring muscular-skeletal balance has an important place too.

As for the core stability, It is incrediably useful. It allows you to stabilise your hips and upper body for more efficient power transfer and improved comfort and control on the bike.

Whilst nothing will improve you on the bike fitness than being on the bike, there is definite benefit to doing things off the bike too.

Bhima

I go to the gym on my days off from the bike, so it's not like the two training regimes are clashing and i'm losing out on valuable bike-time.

Last year, my legs were way out of proportion with the rest of my body so I initially started going to the gym to even it out a bit.

Although, i've found that upper-body weights, especially arm weights, help massively with power-transfer to the bike when climbing out of the saddle on hills. Without that arm strength, i'd be wobbling about all over the place, wasting energy.

Leg weights in the gym also help with power. I took a week off cycling to do purely leg weight work and it made a big difference!

Not Another Hill

I rode all through winter this year (Mainly Sunday Club runs) and the occasional extra Saturday run when the weather was OK and my fitness has improved a lot compared to last year when I did no winter riding except commuting. Tested myself on my regular hilly TT style 17 mile run on Friday and averaged 17.3 mph which was the max I achieved at the end of last summer after plenty of summer and Spring riding (Spring last year I was 14.5 mph to start with).

I doubt I would have made those gains had I spent that time in the gym.

By the end of the summer, will be looking to be hitting 18 + mph over that distance.

I think on bike training is the way to go to maximise bike fitness.

cougie

I know some pros (levi for one) swear by Pilates off season, but it just doesnt float my boat. I need the endorphin rush !

Mettan

SpinningJenny wrote:

Hi all, hope you all had a great Easter break?

I have a question which I'm sure all you more experienced people can answer!

I am doing the Capital to Coast (Hove to Hove) 60 miler in June. I've been building up my distance bit by bit and fingers crossed it will all go well - especially as it is the first bike event of any distance i have ever taken part in!

My question revolves (no pun intended!) around the type of additional fitness training I should be doing to support my cycling. I go to the gym 2-3 times a week plus the cycling and up until now have been focussing on strength training. Is this still the right thing to do and should I be focussing even more on core strength to help me out even more with the bike training? I do see a fantastic trainer and will ask his advice too, but wanted to get some input from you all too.

Thanks!

Couple of things - if you want to do a 60 on the day, doing one or two 35-40 milers in the build-up (in addition to shorter regular rides) should give you a decent physical workout (and psychological boost) regards doing the full distance - how is your neck, back, hands and rear ? - if you're a new-ish rider you might need some time on the bike to get your contact points and neck acclimatised to riding for so long - at a guess you'll be riding for over 4 hours - also, are there any hills on this ride? - it's different riding up a 5-7 % gradient after 48 miles than it is after 7 miles - if there are any hills, try and incorporate some into your training rides now.

shockedsoshocked

Bhima wrote:

Although, i've found that upper-body weights, especially arm weights, help massively with power-transfer to the bike when climbing out of the saddle on hills. Without that arm strength, i'd be wobbling about all over the place, wasting energy.

Arm weights just give you big, useless biceps. If you want upper body strength to pull on the bars, whether in or out of the saddle i'd suggest that pull ups would be a much better exercise to do.

Bhima

I do do pull-ups!

In fact, I do loads of stuff at the gym, just didn't want to clutter up the thread with a bit list of what I do.

Swimming is good. So is rowing.

Bigger biceps have helped me a little I think. I used to have really weak arms so the bike was controlling me, as opposed to me controlling the bike, once the road ramped up the slightest!

shockedsoshocked

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying don't do them, but don't get obsessed with huge biceps. It's all about proportion! You want to be lean, not bulky.

If I ever went back to using a gym again (hopefully will do in September) the only upper body exercises i'd ever consider doing are push ups, pull ups and tricep dips.

Alex_Simmons/RST

ride_whenever wrote:

I get knee trouble due to muscle inbalances, i know several others who have had similar issues. My physio has said that the way to prevent it flaring up again is to so some specific exercises as well as adding running to my training.

I agree that positioning on the bike is very important, but ensuring muscular-skeletal balance has an important place too.

As for the core stability, It is incrediably useful. It allows you to stabilise your hips and upper body for more efficient power transfer and improved comfort and control on the bike.

Whilst nothing will improve you on the bike fitness than being on the bike, there is definite benefit to doing things off the bike too.

Well if we are going to go with anecdotes rather than evidence, then I haven't bothered to do any exercise other than ride my bike (indoors and out). Considering where I've come from, I do just fine on the bike and am getting more powerful as I go.

I get my core workouts from on bike, sprints and so on. Good solid efforts at and either side of threshold also do the trick as does a bit of hill work.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying doing those other things is bad (I've done plenty of yoga myself but not lately). But there's no evidence it makes much difference.

If you are getting knee trouble riding, I suggest you get professional help for your bike fit. You'd be pretty surprised how just about all of those problems can be solved with someone who knows what they are doing. Unless it's an existing injury that needs attention.

SunWuKong

Hi Alex

I appreciate anecdotes don't equate to evidence but here's mine.

Pretty much 10 years ago I had an industrial accident, since then running and cycling can often cause pain in my right knee. A combination of massage, stretching and weights allows me to enjoy both pain free.

I do core work, although I don't like that term as people generally think of it being abs and maybe obliques too. For this I do a combination of pilates and stuff from Mark Vestegen's programmes which means it's built into the weights I do.

As far as the OP is concerned I'd say 2x a week is plenty for supplemental training and I would get out on the bike a bit more. The weather is fine, enjoy.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Which fits with my comment:
"Unless it's an existing injury that needs attention."

SpinningJenny

Okay then... thank you all for your input - I did ask!

Just to be clear - I do appreciate that the only thing that will help me on my bike is... being on my bike!

I don't spend time in the gym at the expense of being on my bike - perish the thought! Of course we are all different and will need different things to keep us all round fit.

So I'll take all that away and think about it - on my bike!

Alex_Simmons/RST

SpinningJenny wrote:

Just to be clear - I do appreciate that the best thing that will help me on my bike is... being on my bike!

Just corrected your post for you

get out there and enjoy it!

SpinningJenny

Nice one Alex! Silly me!

JGS

I personally mix my cycling up with swimming and running. This is mainly to ensure that my posture remains balanced and help prevent lower back injuries. This doesn't greatly enhance my cycling performance, but it certainly ensures that as I get older my body isn't wonky and that I maintain a reasonably good state of health. I'd definitely recommend some form of cross training, just to maintain a healthy body outside of cycling. I remember being very alarmed when I first visited a physio after busting my knee a few years ago, and the amount of issues she pointed out that had occurred because my only exercise was cycling was very alarming.

If you are looking to find ways of getting faster and fitter on the bike, then riding the bike more will certainly help. Don't try and increase your weekly miles by much more than 15% a week, and try doing sprint training (usually on the rollers to help with balance). In fact I really recommend getting some rollers as they helped me increase my balance and pedalling efficiency and out on the road I go a little faster for the same effort, as I am more smooth with my steering inputs and pedal strokes.

SpinningJenny

Thank you, JGS. My shopping list expands... although I was thinking of getting a turbo trainer rather than rollers... but I see hwo rollers will help with balance, etc!

rjh299

Core work as said and stretch!
Don't forget to stretch. It's boring, doesn't feel like your doing anything and seems like a waste of time. But the time spent off the bike through avoidable injury is even more of a waste. Trust me.
6 weeks off bike because of knee injury. Just getting back into it and now ive torn my hamstring playing football (not good cross training!)

vision267

rowing is a very good supplement

le_grimpeur

DoubleTop wrote:

softlad wrote:

skip the gym and just ride the bike - any other type of training is a diversion.....

Nothing, except cycling on your bike outside will do any good.


DT

if that is the case, why do professional cyclists work on their core strength, do cross-training, running and nordic ski-ing as part of their training regime?

Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:

Show me the evidence that such training (Cross-training) has any great affect on reducing the likelyhood of sustaining an injury while riding a bike

Whilst I cannot provide evidence in support of Cross training, any improvements to muscle strength throughout the body does reduce the likelihood of sustaining a serious injury, or rather, reduces the seriousness of any injury incurred. And I'm referring to Doctor Helge Riebenhoff of Team Columbia.

I don't have the book, and cannot recall the title, but it was a Lance Armstrong exercise thing, and the point about stretching was that it helps combat the degenerative effect that cycling has on the knees. Perhaps someone at the gym you go to could help you with these

So, any exercise will improve your fitness* - as well as reduce the seriousness of any inury, you can improve your cycling fitness off the bike. Core stability has been mentioned, and I focus on this by doing yoga, added stretches and sit-ups.

(* of course, the more cycling you do, the more you will improve your cycling fitness)

So, exercises specifcally for the bike, get yourself a ball, with your back against a wall, legs bent at the knees at 90 degrees, ball between your knees using a bit of pressure, then push yourself up using your legs. repeat this 20 times, then in the start position, hold this for 20 seconds, then repeat both for 3 times.

Also, sit in a chair, ball held between the knees with a bit of pressure, raise one foot, then lower, do this 10 times, then for the other leg, and do this another two times.

Also, if you have some stairs, stand at the bottom facing the stairs at about 45 degrees, raise yourself up on one leg - as if you were about to start climbing the stairs then lower, do this 20 times, same for other leg, repeat the set another two times.

Finally (I think), you could always tailor the time you spend on the bike to improve your fitness on the bike.
1. I started using this tip (from Greg Lemond) basically, bust a gut for 20 seconds, recover, repeat. And extend the number of times you do this, or the length of time you do it for.
2. Try accelerating as you crest a hill.
3. Pick a stretch of road to maintain a speed - then try to beat it.

As far as your first 60miler, I think it's just a case of getting accustomed to being in the saddle for a longer tiime, and hopefully the weather will allow you to get out for a couple of four hour rides before.

SpinningJenny

Thank you all - especially for your essay, le_grimpeur - it was really well written! I'm also pleased to say that a lot of the things you referred to I am already doing!

I totally take your point about time spent in the saddle - I think that's the bit that's daunting me most - so I'd better get myself out there!

le_grimpeur

Also, I suspect that the ride will take longer than it would do for you to do 60 miles - lots of stopping, lots of other cyclists, natural breaks etc. So it'd be wise to think of how you can sustain yourself in between any pit-stops, eg, energy bars, apricots - whatever you find works for you.

Anyway, for my first London to Brighton, I managed 3 four rides beforehand , and that was sufficient.