Power to weight ratio

tommy_tommy

I have read many cycling texts that cite power to weight ratio as a good marker for cycling potential. My particular goal is hold onto to the main pack in a 3rd/4th cat road race. In all my 3 attempts so far I got dropped after just a few miles. I do not own a power meter so can't get an indication of my power; but I ride my local 10 mile TT in 26 minutes with just clip on tri bars on my road bike and I weigh in at 64Kg.

My assumption is that the weight side of the formula is less important than the sustainable power. The races I have ridden are on flat or rolling courses so I assume my relatively low weight has limited affect.

I am now thinking that I should focus on postponing bunch racing until I can see a drop in my TT times a a result of increasing my sustainable power.

Looking at the 10Mtt times of other riders who race 3rd/4th cat races, I believe around 24.5 minutes to be a good bench mark. Is this a fair assumption.

shockedsoshocked

I don't think it's your power to weight ratio that's getting you shelved, but more likely inexperience in riding in the bunch.

Simon Notley

Don't give up the road racing just yet. It's very hard to pass judgement on your TT times without knowing the course, but you can obviously sustain a reasonable pace to do a 26, so I doubt this is the problem. Sure, you probably won;t be riding off the front Cancellara style but you shoudl have what it takes to stay with the bunch.

First of all, make it your aim to stay in the pack not 'hold onto' it. If you stay right at the back you will be constantly sprinting out of corners to stay in touch and sooner or later you will let it slip. Ride in the middle of the bunch, maybe even go near the front occasionally, but don't hang around in the wind. Practice will make perfect and soon you'll find yourself staying with the bunch more easily and then you can start to think about getting faster and getting results!

zammmmo

Maybe post a brief summary of your typical training week here including training background (intensity, duration, group/indvidual riding, type of riding)...it shouldn't be THAT difficult in my experience for most relatively young cyclists who train maybe 5-10 hours a week to stay in a 3rd/4th cat bunch.

Also post more details about the time trial.......

Bronzie

tommy_tommy wrote:

I am now thinking that I should focus on postponing bunch racing until I can see a drop in my TT times a a result of increasing my sustainable power.

Whilst I agree that riding TT's and long intervals is the way to increase your threshold power (and hence you are less likely to go into the red in order to hold on in a bunch race), if this is the ONLY type of training you are doing, it will not prepare you for hard repeated efforts you need to make in bunch racing.

Mix in some shorter, more intense efforts into your training that replicate the hard efforts you need to make in road races.

tommy_tommy

Thanks for the replies.

For the last 14 years I competed in triathlons and in that time rode the one or two road races every few years with the goal of staying with the bunch. However, I never manged more than a few miles before getting dropped. At the end of last season I ditched the running and swimming and devoted all my available time to cycling. I turned 40 this year and saw this as my last attempted to achieve this particular goal. I upped the intensity of my cycling training over the winter and felt much stronger on the bike at the start of this spring. However, getting dropped again in my first 2 races is a bit discouraging.

Your points about bike handling is very valid. In the first 2 races I found my self sitting at the back from the start and saw no way of moving up through the bunch safely. In both races it was coming out of a corner when a small gap opened and my race was over. I have always been told to stay at the front but when everyone has the same idea the riding can get a bit erratic.

On the positive side, at least I have confidence that with my new bike fitness I will beat my 10Mtt time this year when the evening series starts.

Anonymous

A road race, particularly a shorter one, is much more all or nothing in terms of power output, whereas a TT is more steady state.

My last fast group ride where we were averaging about 25 on the flats showed me not pedalling 20% of the time whereas when I was, it was at or above my threshold power, for an hour and a half. I spent almost 30 minutes in total above my anaerobic power level...

Shorter, more intense intervals and more group riding are needed I feel.

cougie

I think I'd struggle holding the bunch if I was riding 26 min 10s. You really need to have a bit more speed than that.

If I were you I would focus on lots of intervals as part of the training, combined with some decent miles. Have a look at Pete Reads Big Blue Book for turbo training. You need to be able to jump and hold a high speed for short periods of time. Being able to cruise wont be of that much use to stay in the bunch.

Plus being able to stay in the pack will be a massive help - choose a wheel to ride and try and stick there wherever it goes in the pack. Hovering round the back will get you distanced on corners.

tommy_tommy

I definitely see a correlation between 10 mile TT times and road racing performance based my observation of the results from the evening time trial series. Those who ride around 24 minutes on standard bikes and clip on bars tend to be in amongst the results on 3rd/4th cat races. Those with the the full aero kit who ride around 23 minutes tend do OK in the 3rd/4th bunch racing . Riders like myself who are plus 25 minutes on standard bikes with clip on bars struggle to hold on in the bunch races.

I know this is not a scientific study but it gives me a benchmark to work with. If I can get my 10mtt times comparable with those who can hold their own in the bunch racing, I will consider giving bunch racing another go later in the season.

Just one question relating to intervals. When you ride at intensities above your threshold do you allow extra rest days to recover. I have introduce one session per week in the last four weeks but found myself in a fatigued state and needing to take 4 days off the bike to recover. Should I drop the longer 2 hour plus tempo rides and concentrate on the high intensity training once the season is underway.

redddraggon

It's a red herring, you've said yourself that you got dropped after corners, looks to me like you need to work on improving on staying in the group and being able to sprint out of corners. A TT is roughly about constant power over the distance, but road racing is about the accelerations is it not?

Anonymous

Tommy, join a club and start doing group rides ASAP, also continue with the racing too, don't stop and then go back...

Bronzie

tommy_tommy wrote:

I have introduce one session per week in the last four weeks but found myself in a fatigued state and needing to take 4 days off the bike to recover.

If it's taking you that long to recover then I'd perhaps question what sort of base fitness you have to start with. As with any training, you should be looking at a gradual increase in the intensity/duration, rather than jumping straight in with a session that leaves you totally shattered.

As for leaving the racing until later in the season...........the only problem is that a lot of the other riders will have several weeks hard racing in their legs by then and it will be even harder to keep up.

eh

I'm not sure TT times are great indicators appart from proving you aren't completely useless. Think I could finish 3/4 races when I could only do 27 min 10's and later I finished a E/1/2/3 race with at best a mid-24 min '10'. But then I can read races quite well, rarely have problems knowing where to be in a bunch, and can accelerate then recover quickly.

One thing that no one mentions is mental toughness to hold a wheel, this for me at the beginning of seasons is always a problem but after a few races I get used to it again.

celbianchi

eh wrote:

I'm not sure TT times are great indicators appart from proving you aren't completely useless. Think I could finish 3/4 races when I could only do 27 min 10's and later I finished a E/1/2/3 race with at best a mid-24 min '10'. But then I can read races quite well, rarely have problems knowing where to be in a bunch, and can accelerate then recover quickly.

One thing that no one mentions is mental toughness to hold a wheel, this for me at the beginning of seasons is always a problem but after a few races I get used to it again.

Excellent point. I usually start my road racing the first weekend of April, a lot of lads have already raced all March by this point. I think most of us need a reminder as to how much road racing can hurt, and I do find in the first race of the season I can be lacking in having the fight to go through the pain barrier when it gets seriously tough.
In fact this season was my first in 5 seasons of racing that I have not had a really horrible first race of the season.
I did a few time trials in March, but like many posts above have highlighted are not the same kettle of fish, you control your own pain in a TT, in a road race often it will be someone else forcing you to hurt.