Beginners guide to commuting?

DonDaddyD

Updated!!

roger_merriman

re the braking, a hybrid normally has bigger clearances so can have wider tires most seem to be roadie (mostly marthon's) treaded but not much, which will give more grip, this said the cheaper hybrids tend to have cheap V's which are awful. but that doesn't mean the better ones further up the food chain don't have really very good brakes.

re leisure lot of people have more than one bike, so having a bike for the city and for rolling along quiet lanes isn't a problem as you can have two or more....

DonDaddyD

roger merriman wrote:

re the braking, a hybrid normally has bigger clearances so can have wider tires most seem to be roadie (mostly marthon's) treaded but not much, which will give more grip, this said the cheaper hybrids tend to have cheap V's which are awful. but that doesn't mean the better ones further up the food chain don't have really very good brakes.

re leisure lot of people have more than one bike, so having a bike for the city and for rolling along quiet lanes isn't a problem as you can have two or more....

Roger, thanks for your response the the four main posts are constantly evolving and I'm not sure what you've written now applies to what is in the four main posts.

tailwindhome

About time someone put this thread together, good work fella

A couple of suggestions-

Change the title - its already evolved into a beginners guide to commuting which is long over due, the thread title should reflect that

Include a section on Cycle to Work schemes - the explanation on the wiggle website would be a good starting point to copy and includes some aspects I hadn't read anywhere else (such a the effect on pensions).

My top tip for new commuters - Buy a bike, point it towards work, start pedalling

One can get bogged down in 'what bike?' questions, I know it took me longer to spend £130 on a second hand bike than spend £8k on a car.

Sewinman

jashburnham wrote:

Sewinman wrote:

Great effort. I think it is slightly flawed though - being able to use the road bike for sportives and long rides etc is an irrelevance for 'what commuting bike'. Someone new to commuting should go for a hybrid - more comfortable, better brakes, grippier etc.

Disagree - I've had a Hybrid, a Ridgeback one. It was no comfier than any of my road bikes, and the brakes certainly weren't better - in fact it was a worse bike in basically every regard. I replaced it with a Specialized Allez which cost around £100 more and was infinitley better.

Also - Grippy? Many people assume that the sort of knobbly tires fitted to commuter hybrids are grippier - this is not the case for road riding. Over to the late great Sheldon Brown:

Tread for on-road use
Bicycle tires for on-road use have no need of any sort of tread features; in fact, the best road tires are perfectly smooth, with no tread at all!
Unfortunately, most people assume that a smooth tire will be slippery, so this type of tire is difficult to sell to unsophisticated cyclists. Most tire makers cater to this by putting a very fine pattern on their tires, mainly for cosmetic and marketing reasons. If you examine a section of asphalt or concrete, you'll see that the texture of the road itself is much "knobbier" than the tread features of a good quality road tire. Since the tire is flexible, even a slick tire deforms as it comes into contact with the pavement, acquiring the shape of the pavement texture, only while incontact with the road.
People ask, "But don't slick tires get slippery on wet roads, or worse yet, wet metal features such as expansion joints, paint stripes, or railroad tracks?" The answer is, yes, they do. So do tires with tread. All tires are slippery in these conditions. Tread features make no improvement in this.

Squirm

Knobby treads actually give worse traction on hard surfaces! This is because the knobs can bend under side loads, while a smooth tread cannot.
The bending of knobs can cause discontinuities in handling; the tire grips OK for mild cornering, but as cornering force exceeds some critical value, the knobs start to bend and the traction suddenly goes to Hell in a handbasket.

Combination Treads

Many tire makers market "combination tread" tires, that are purported to work well both on pavement and dirt. Generally, they don't.
The usual design is to have a smooth ridge down the center of the tread, with knobs on the sides. The theory is that the ridge will provide a smooth ride on pavement, with the tire inflated fairly hard, and the knobs will come into play off-road, with the tire running at lower pressure (or sinking into a soft surface.) Another aspect of this design is that the knobs are intended to come into play as you lean into a turn.
In practice, combination tread tires don't work all that well. They do OK in dirt, but they're pretty lousy on pavement. They're much heavier than street tires, and if you corner aggressively, the transition from the center strip to the knobs can cause sudden washout. They aren't quite as slow and buzzy as true dirt tires, but they're much worse in this respect than smoothies.
If you mostly ride on pavement, but also do a fair amount of dirt, a combination tire on the front may be a good choice for you, with a road tire on the back. See the section on mixing/matching tires.


I don't know where this notion of Road bikes being uncomfortable comes from. Providing the bike fits then there's no reason for them to be uncomfy.

The brakes on a decent hybrid are better than a road bike in my experience. As for grip - i would rather go over a wet man hole on a hybrid with fatish tyres than my road bike. This thread is for beginners, I would really struggle to recommend a road bike to a newbie and not worry for their safety in London.

I am glad I went through the hybrid stage.

biondino

Sewinman wrote:

I am glad I went through the hybrid stage.

Sewinman, yesterday:

Rockbuddy

I can see that you have tried to make the info balanced and to the whole you have but there is an obvious undertonne of road bikes are best.

Have to agree with the likes of Sewinman I really wouldn't recommened a road bike to someone just starting out (London or not). A semi to decent hybrid instills more confidance in a beginner than an out and out roadie. Besides most people not into speed and just wanting a commuter aren't bothered about the 5lbs or so of weight difference between a hybrid and a roady, especially when the hybrid is ultimately cheaper for like to like spec.

Just to try and dispell any backlash my comments may bring, I am not anti-roadie. In fact I have recently bought a Giant defy 4 (bottom of the line with 2200 mechs - seems to work though) as my sole commuting bike. However, that's after commuting for the past 18months or so (NOT a fairweather cyclist - can't be in Wales) on an mtb with slics. I have to admit that I was a bit tentative (maybe even wobbly) for the first couple of days but am getting used to the set up. The biggest difference apart from the ride position is the brakes, going from hydraulic disc to standard rim brakes was a massive difference.

biondino

I don't disagree that for the first week or two, a noob will feel more comfortable on a hybrid. But is it worth the payoff? A roadie may be more wobbly or scary at first, but once ridden for a few weeks it'll be just as second nature as a hybrid would be and (in the right circumstances) must more useful and fun.

I can totally understand the hybrid logic, but I don't necessarily think the risk/reward balance pays off in this case.

bigmat

Speaking as someone who rides both a road bike and a hybrid (well, an ancient rigid MTB with slicks so effectively a hybrid), the"hybrid" is significantly more agile, more robust and more confidence inspiring riding through traffic than the road bike, especially in wet, wind or snow. The road bike is faster, and narrower if you're into squeezing through tight gaps in traffic (I'm not) but overall I think the hybrid option is far more versatile and suitable for short(say up to 10 miles each way), heavily trafficked commutes. On longer routes / more open roads, the benefits of a road bike might kick in. On the safety aspect, my mate commutes on a road bike and has gone over his bars three times in as many years when people have stepped out in front of him. In similar incidents I've managed to stay on the bike - weight is further back and the riding position generally more stable.

Rockbuddy

It's a 'swings and roundabouts' conversation isn't it. I mean it all comes back to personal preferance, budget and what the bike will ultimately be used for. I think most people if they keep up the riding will probably collect a few bikes over the years, depending on what they use them for.

I've kept my mtb and will prob put the knobblies back on for a bit of off roading fun in the summer (definately a fair weather mtb'er ) My only regret is not buying a road bike last year before this years prices

DonDaddyD

I categorically disagree with everything everyone has said about hybrids being better than road bikes for beginners.

Firstly balance is balance. If you can balance on inline skates you can do so on iceskates. If you can ride a bike you can ride a bike, road bike, hybrid, mountain or whatever. If we are really talking about easy bikes for beginners then lets bring back the BMX. A road bike may look difficult to ride but in practice it isn't.

The tyre debate I'm not buying, my GP4000s and 4 seasons (tyres designed for the road) provide me more grip on the road than any of my previous bikes: 2 hybrids and 1 front suspension bike with knobbly tyres. The characteristics of each tyre and bike are different but for commuting I cannot take a corner on any of my previous bikes as quickly or as sure-footed as I do on my road bike. In the end the bike is designed to be stable at speed on the road and I commute on the road.

Slick tyres are designed to roll fast and grip, knobbly tyres are designed to provide traction in the mud. knobbly tyres are not better on the road and the wider tyre of a hybrid is of so little a benefit when natural balance and an individuals centre of gravity is concerned its not worth referencing.

It is not more difficult to commute in heavy traffic in London on a road bike over a hybrid. I have seen nothing to support that claim apart from 'road bikes look difficult to ride'. Well so does my Dad's BMW 5 series but it is in actual fact easier to drive than my Fiesta.

Yes Hybrid vs Road bike is down to personal preference but not when that preference is based on myth and legend.

bigmat

Hang on DDD, I just listed several reasons why I find it better to commute in London traffic on a "hybrid" rather than a road bike. Fine if you disagree, but its a bit much to just completely dismiss them out of hand. MTB style bikes are more agile at low speed - fact. That is what they are designed for. Smaller wheels, shorter wheelbase, I find easier to manoeuvre through traffic, particularly at LOW speeds. V brakes I find provide better stopping power than anything other than perfectly set up caliper brakes. Fatter tyres (slicks, but not 23mm) provide better grip, especially in the wet. Not so much for cornering, but when braking in a straight line for example. Greater surface area to slow you down. The more upright position on a hybrid allows better peripheral vision, as opposed to a road bike which is designed primarily for head down speed. You are also slightly higher up due to raised bottom bracket which again allows better peripheral visibility. Weight is also placed further back which helps avoid offs over the handlebars. I'll leave it there for now!

By the way, when you say GP4000s do you mean GP4000 plural, or the actual GP4000S tyre? My GP4000 tyres are like bambi on ice in the wet, which might explain some of my experiences!

DonDaddyD

MatHammond wrote:

MTB style bikes are more agile at low speed - fact.

I agree. I've written as much previously.

That is what they are designed for. Smaller wheels, shorter wheelbase, I find easier to manoeuvre through traffic, particularly at LOW speeds.

This is my problem here. When on a hybrid you can dart in and out of traffic at low speeds. The person doing this isn't part of the traffic they are a person on a bike filtering through traffic. This opens them up to getting hit as they manoevre in and out around traffic. - This type of filtering (in, out and around traffic) also takes a measurable amount of skill not something immediately available to beginners.

I also filter like this fine on my road bike.

When you are on a road bike riding at ambeint traffic speed makes you part of the traffic you move with the traffic and around obsticles as part of the traffic not a cyclist.

V brakes I find provide better stopping power than anything other than perfectly set up caliper brakes.

I'm sorry that's not a fair comparision, your claim here suggests that caliper brakes need to be set up perfectly as though they are prone to not being set up properly. Truth is all brakes need to be set up properly to work properly.

V brakes of equal set up to caliper brakes (the ones found on road bikes) don't work as well as the brakes found on road bikes.

Fatter tyres (slicks, but not 23mm) provide better grip, especially in the wet.

Not necessarily depends on the tyre itself.

Not so much for cornering, but when braking in a straight line for example. Greater surface area to slow you down.

This has nothing to do with grip and everything to do with friction. You are right on this point however.

The more upright position on a hybrid allows better peripheral vision, as opposed to a road bike which is designed primarily for head down speed.

I could give me a higher riding position on my road bike than ever possible on my hybrid of same size. The drop handle bars make it more comfortable as well.

You are also slightly higher up due to raised bottom bracket which again allows better peripheral visibility.

That's only true for some frame types. I'm almost positive I'm higher up overall (seat hieght, frame size handlebar position) on my SCR than my M2.

Weight is also placed further back which helps avoid offs over the handlebars.

That's simply not true. If you've stopped the bike sharply enough that the momentum is going to carry you over the handlebars you are going over the handle bars. That energy has to be transferred somewhere (universal constant - all energy is transferable). This has more to do with how you stop and the momentum at the point of stopping. I.e. head on collision at 15mph both a hybrid and road bike are going to flip over.

By the way, when you say GP4000s do you mean GP4000 plural, or the actual GP4000S tyre? My GP4000 tyres are like bambi on ice in the wet, which might explain some of my experiences!

My GP4000S had nearly no loss of grip in the wet as they had in the dry. My road bike is far more stable than my hybrid but then on the road it was designed to be.

biondino

Mathammond, there are a few contradictions in your post:

1) if your road tyres are skidding in the wet then you're braking too hard with the rear brake (if you brake too hard with the front brake you'll crash as soon as the bike skids).

2) It's all very well saying wider tyres stop quicker but if you want to be objective you have to also make it clear they accelerate and roll slower.

3) related to 1 and 2 - why do you need better braking if you're regularly sliding the back wheel and launching yourself over the handlebars?

4) my roadie is very agile - wider bars make steering woolier and slower. I'm glad the wheelbase is no shorter as I don't want toe overlap.

bigmat

My GP4000S had nearly no loss of grip in the wet as they had in the dry. My road bike is far more stable than my hybrid but then on the road it was designed to be.[/quote]

That figures - I heard the GP4000S is a far better tyre, unfortunately it doesn't come in red (see bike tart thread...)

Cheers for the other responses, I don't necessarily agree with it all but everybody's views and experiences are going to be different, I just think for a sticky like this both points of view need to come across. For the record, our commutes briefly cross I think (I ride a stretch of Clapham Park Road before turning on to Bedford Road and up towards Clapham North) so if you ever see a bloke on a black Ridgeback 603GS mountain bike with slicks, say hello!

DonDaddyD

MatHammond wrote:

For the record, our commutes briefly cross I think (I ride a stretch of Clapham Park Road before turning on to Bedford Road and up towards Clapham North) so if you ever see a bloke on a black Ridgeback 603GS mountain bike with slicks, say hello!

I will try to but due to me riding so fast there will be a time delay between the moment I've said something and the time you hear it... :shock:

"See kids if you want to defy physics like DDD here, buy a road bike"

bigmat

biondino wrote:

Mathammond, there are a few contradictions in your post:

1) if your road tyres are skidding in the wet then you're braking too hard with the rear brake (if you brake too hard with the front brake you'll crash as soon as the bike skids).

2) It's all very well saying wider tyres stop quicker but if you want to be objective you have to also make it clear they accelerate and roll slower.

3) related to 1 and 2 - why do you need better braking if you're regularly sliding the back wheel and launching yourself over the handlebars?

4) my roadie is very agile - wider bars make steering woolier and slower. I'm glad the wheelbase is no shorter as I don't want toe overlap.

1) Its not so much skidding in the wet - to be honest I don't really use my rear brake. I just find fatter tyres more confidence inspiring in the wet. On my road bike I've had nasty slips on manhole covers etc, and actually came off going uphill in the Pyrenees. The MTB is a lot surer footed. Probably comes down to riding position and brakes as well as tyres though.

2) I thought I already said that road bikes are quicker - no argument there.

3) Again, its more a general combination of position and brakes that makes me feel a lot more confident on an MTB than a road bike. That's especially so in emergency situations wher you just slam on the brakes and hope for the best - happens to all sometimes (numpties stepping out in fron of you, cars turning without indicating) and I've had a lot less issues on my MTB than my mate on his road bike. That could just be good luck though.

4) Fair enough!

bigmat

DonDaddyD wrote:

MatHammond wrote:

For the record, our commutes briefly cross I think (I ride a stretch of Clapham Park Road before turning on to Bedford Road and up towards Clapham North) so if you ever see a bloke on a black Ridgeback 603GS mountain bike with slicks, say hello!

I will try to but due to me riding so fast there will be a time delay between the moment I've said something and the time you hear it... :shock:

"See kids if you want to defy physics like DDD here, buy a road bike"

You'd be scalped like never before, and by a 17 year old mountain bike no less...

DonDaddyD

MatHammond wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

MatHammond wrote:

For the record, our commutes briefly cross I think (I ride a stretch of Clapham Park Road before turning on to Bedford Road and up towards Clapham North) so if you ever see a bloke on a black Ridgeback 603GS mountain bike with slicks, say hello!

I will try to but due to me riding so fast there will be a time delay between the moment I've said something and the time you hear it... :shock:

"See kids if you want to defy physics like DDD here, buy a road bike"

You'd be scalped like never before, and by a 17 year old mountain bike no less...

I'll be on Clapham Park rd heading from Oval towards Clapham North about 6.15pm tonight.

Roastie

DDD - Top marks for all the effort that went into this, and, flaws aside, getting a start on putting something together is so much better than never publishing it until it is perfect.

I would however like to throw in my 2c:
1. It is very road bike biased. Some people just don't like road bikes. Road bikes have a distinct feel as a result of their geometry. Hybrids, shoppers, MTBs, etc all have much more relaxed geometry that make them a lot friendlier to ride (yes, they are easier to balance on!).

2. Folders? What about those who want to combine bike and train/bus? Or who would rather have something they can stash under a desk at work/home?

3. No mention of the road bike wheel/pothole issue? A non-road bike on 32c tyres is far less likely to pinch puncture than a roadie on 23c.

4. Some people *like* to dawdle. It isn't fun to dawdle on a road bike.

But otherwise, nice work!

DonDaddyD

Roastiecp wrote:

DDD - Top marks for all the effort that went into this, and, flaws aside, getting a start on putting something together is so much better than never publishing it until it is perfect.

I would however like to throw in my 2c:
1. It is very road bike biased. Some people just don't like road bikes. Road bikes have a distinct feel as a result of their geometry. Hybrids, shoppers, MTBs, etc all have much more relaxed geometry that make them a lot friendlier to ride (yes, they are easier to balance on!).

2. Folders? What about those who want to combine bike and train/bus? Or who would rather have something they can stash under a desk at work/home?

3. No mention of the road bike wheel/pothole issue? A non-road bike on 32c tyres is far less likely to pinch puncture than a roadie on 23c.

4. Some people *like* to dawdle. It isn't fun to dawdle on a road bike.

But otherwise, nice work!

OK what I want is this thread to be a fair beginners guide to commuting. What I also want is to dismistify some of the misconceptions about bikes in general.

Where I've been biased towards road bikes please point out and I will rectify accordingly. But it has to be a valid point. With that I refer to your points.

1. It is very road bike biased. Some people just don't like road bikes. Road bikes have a distinct feel as a result of their geometry. Hybrids, shoppers, MTBs, etc all have much more relaxed geometry that make them a lot friendlier to ride (yes, they are easier to balance on!).

This is one of the myths I think needs to have light casted on. A road bike like a Giant SCR 3 or Allez isn't less comfortable than all hybrids. In my experience riding on the same commute my road bike (SCR 3) to be much more forgiving than my Giant M2. There are many varibles to consider when discussing comfort.

The point I made earlier is that road bikes aren't overly uncomfortable. The right road bike can provide as much comfort if not more so than some hybrids and other bikes. This isn't to say that hybrids are less comfortable than these types of road bikes or that these types of road bikes are less comfortable that hybrids. What needs to be realised is that its what bike suits the individual and no general rule for one type of bike comfort can be delivered by all types of bikes.

2. Folders? What about those who want to combine bike and train/bus? Or who would rather have something they can stash under a desk at work/home?

Gonna write a category about this and at it. I admit its a type of bike that needs to be mentioned.

3. No mention of the road bike wheel/pothole issue? A non-road bike on 32c tyres is far less likely to pinch puncture than a roadie on 23c.

I've taken out the bit about tyres and avoided the subject of punctures because all typres of tyres are prone to different types of punctures. The end conclusion is that al tyres can puncture. I've had no more punctures on my road bike than on my hybrids. In terms of road safety its advised to ride around pot holes not over them.

4. Some people *like* to dawdle. It isn't fun to dawdle on a road bike.

This is in your opinion. Now I admit I have to go through my four main posts but in all honesty you can dwadle/bimble on any bike.

Bassjunkieuk

First off, great guide mate! Even if it does have a slight bias towards road bikes :-) Can only be expected I guess when your a roadie yourself :-D

My first recommendation would have been to "reserve" a few posts after your initial 3 so you might be able to go back and edit them in the future (like the "What's gone wrong with my bike" thread........) Still it's been a good read over my evening cuppa tea.

Some interesting points raised re road bike handling, riding positions, safety etc. As has been mentioned before I think most of those areas can be greatly influenced by experience. I've had to make a few emergency stops whilst on my road bike and I've only once lifted the rear wheel and that was after ejecting my water bottle from it's usual holding place after having hit a pothole in Camberwell!

I can only offer a limited objective opinion tho as my experience of riding a hybrid is limited to the brief period whilst I was on the wife's hybrid (road bike was being serviced) and to a lesser extent my horrid Halfords MTB when we had the snow this year. Ultimately my main complaint with these 2 bikes was that they felt so sluggish, mainly due to the gearing (a point which might be worth mentioning DDD), on my road bike I'm able to push a "bigger" gear and go faster for the same amount of effort. There where times on the hybrid and MTB that I felt I was putting in a reasonable amount of effort but didn't seem to be moving along as swiftly as I felt I should be.

When I first started riding a road bike with drop bars I think my initial complaint was that it took my hands a few weeks to toughen up to the new riding position. I did get an ache at first between thumb and finger where I was riding using the hoods and operating the brakes from up there. Once I got used to the riding position I actually find it very comfortable and even for my stop/start London commute being able to reach the brakes and gear levers (being the same unit with the Shimano STI setup) is really convenient and I find them easier to use then the rapid fire shifters on the hybrid.

One last thing..........you might want to put a link in at the end for calculating your FCN and a recommendation that they read the WHOLE Silly Commuting Racing thread ;-)

roger_merriman

i'd echo some others in pointing out that some hybrids with the more upright seating postion, tends to give a steadier ride than a roadie this said it's not as if roadies are bucking bronco's.

if your coming from a MTB background road brakes are a bit of a shocker, this said how useful that power is on road is some what debatable.

hybrids as ever muddy the water mainly as the cheaper ones have nasty poor working V's (good V's are very powerful)

and like bass the fact that road bikes are so much less effort is a real boon.

but above all i'd say if you just starting out almost any bike can do any commute, road bikes don't crumple if you take them off tarmac and MTB can be made fast road munchers and hybrids will as ever be a almost meaningless term.

DonDaddyD

OK

I've changed the entire first post "Hybrid vs Road bikes" to something that simply explains what this thread is trying to achieve. I shall simply make a seperate thread Hybrid's vs Road bikes.

If someone can actually point out where else there is a bias and by which I mean talk negatively of hybrids then please point that out.

Also if you want to contirbute by listing pros and cons for each bike category or recommend ideal commuting bikes that would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Roastie

A road bike ... isn't less comfortable than all hybrids.

It is difficult to read this without thinking that the real motivation behind this is to convince anyone wanting to commute against a hybrid and towards a road bike; so much is written from a road vs. hybrid perspective. Fair enough, you have mentioned "other bike types" once or twice - but that is about as much air time as they get.

The right road bike can provide as much comfort if not more so than some hybrids and other bikes.

A massive part of the bike comfort equation is in the tyres as these are typically the only suspension a bike has. Road bikes will aways suffer in this area as they usually have only 23mm of air space and types pumped to 8 bar to work properly. Other types of bike may have double that much air space, and at a lower pressure, so less sting and buzz is transmitted through to the contact zones.

Then there is the question of seats ... many people simply aren't comfortable on the narrower saddles road bikes tend to have ...

4. Some people *like* to dawdle. It isn't fun to dawdle on a road bike.

This is in your opinion. Now I admit I have to go through my four main posts but in all honesty you can dwadle/bimble on any bike.

Au contraire! It is fact that some people like to dawdle. It is also fact that road bikes tend to have steep head angles which means their steering is fairly "twitchy", so they require a lot more correction at lower speeds and consequently are less fun to dawdle on.

Plus dawdling usually involves "smelling the roses", in which case a sit-up-and-beg shopper (note, not a hybrid tho' it could be) with a slack head angle, bars 15-20cm above saddle height and a short top tube becomes eminently more rideable.

DonDaddyD

Roastiecp

While I value your retort, I don't think it is no longer beneficial to the thread, which isn't to discuss what is better hybrid vs Road bike but to give new cyclo-commuters a good beginners guide.

To that end I've removed the 'Hybrid vs Road' bike post and have made a new thread for that topic where I will be more than happy to battle my wits and opinion against yours.

For this thread however, my goal is no longer to run a comparison between road bikes and hybrids but to provide information about said bikes and make recommendations for each bike.

Sewinman

Ok so i vote for Trek 1.2 in the cheap category road bike. I paid 420ish and its been a good work horse.

sarajoy

After all my whining I think you may now have almost underplayed the road bikes!

Kidding - it looks good

Just for the flatbar roadies price section, add the Spesh Vita and Sirrus ranges - Sirrus' are standard flatbar roadies, Vitas are basically the same with a girly geometry. I definitely enjoy mine and have heard lots of good reports floating around through word-of-mouth (got a mate who works in a running shop, seems all th sports stores in Brizzle are fairly entangled in doing deals with each other!).

I think they vary from £350-odd to pretty pricey - like £800ish depending on the spec you choose.

Trek do a range... 7.something FX are they?

Flatbar Roadie Pros:
Upright riding position handy in traffic
High-pressure/narrow tyres, low rolling resistance
Familiar brakes/gears set-up if coming from MTBs

Flatbar Roadie Cons:
Limited hand positions available
Not so easy to crouch down to reduce drag
Can be a hard ride as majority of rider weight tends to stay on seat

il_principe

MatHammond wrote:

Its not so much skidding in the wet - to be honest I don't really use my rear brake. I just find fatter tyres more confidence inspiring in the wet. On my road bike I've had nasty slips on manhole covers etc, and actually came off going uphill in the Pyrenees. The MTB is a lot surer footed. Probably comes down to riding position and brakes as well as tyres though.

Any tire's going to be slippy on a wet manhole (that sounds v dodgy :shock: )

Also to ref an earlier post of yours, the GP4000S is a far far better tire than the GP4000. Sod the colour and invest in a pair!

Roastie

DonDaddyD wrote:

While I value your retort, I don't think it is no longer beneficial to the thread...

So you do think it is beneficial ?

You must have typed your post declaring the removal of the hybrid/road issue while I typed mine (I guess I was slow to actually press "submit"). I shall argue further on the other thread .

ps. It is just Roastie, ta.