best value recovery drink

sloxam

hi, been looking for a good value recovery drink. the best i have seen so far is one at zipvit £34.99 for 1.4kg but on bogof so almost 3kg for £35. compared to rego which is £10 for 500g thats great value!
but is it the best?

DaveyL

My local garage are doing Yazoo choccy milk at 50 p for a 500 mL bottle at the moment - can't beat it!

whyamihere

Milk.

SBezza

For a proper recovery drink, the zipvit stuff is very good value at the mo. I have used the chocolate one that came with by trial pack, and it tastes not to bad, on par if not a little better than the choc rego. Going to get some zipvit recovery on the bogof next week, I think it is pretty good, I felt OK the day after a 25mile TT when using the zipvit stuff.

Milk is an OK recovery drink, but it doesn't get absorbed as quickly as a pure recovery drink, though I do use FGS as well, and although it doesn't seem to work as good as Rego, I think it certainly helps.

Wogan

Chocolate milk. Google "chocolate milk recovery"

What's with all the ZipVit mentions recently? Are the forums being spammed by desperate creatine salesmen?

SBezza

Wogan wrote:

Chocolate milk: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/524370

What's with all the ZipVit mentions recently? Are the forums being spammed by desperate creatine salesmen?

No they sponsor the Cervelo Test Team in Pro cycling, and they had an offer on to get a selection of the products for trying for £3.99. Fairly new on the block for sports nutrition, but have been around for supplements for quite a while (or so my wife tells me).

Bhima

It's got a good amount of vitamins in it too, not listed in that chart.

At the recommended "dose" of 15g + 200ml, you'll get 20 milkshakes out of it, including all this:

Vitamin B1 - 14% RDA
Niacin - 13% RDA
Pantothenic Acid - 15% RDA
Vitamin B6 - 15% RDA
Vitamin C - 14% RDA
Vitamin D - 15% RDA
Vitamin E - 13% RDA
Folic Acid - 20% RDA
Calcium - 33% RDA
Magnesium - 15% RDA

Couple of quid down the local shop.

Blend it up with a banana for maximum effect.

joeyhalloran

trying checking out my protein, if you buy in enough quanitity you can get some good deals, although you do have to buy the ingrediants seperately.

jibberjim

I'm really unsure about the ZipVit recovery drink, they have loads of Fat in it, and I've seen very little research which has suggested that is in any way beneficial. It's also using regular sugar, I think the reason for both of these are to keep the costs down, whilst including the other valuable ingredients.

For cost reasons, you really cannot go wrong by making your own, it's even cheaper than the nesquik option if you're prepared to go unflavoured (Using a powdered protein instead of milk as the source of protein saves you about 10p a shot, and Maltodextrin instead of the glucose in nesquik is about half the price, although you may need flavouring depending on your own needs.)

Making your own also means you can match the recipe you like.
Rego and ZipVit are very different products - Rego is very basic, nothing but carbs, protein, flavour and vitamins. ZipVit includes many more things with research which has shown to be beneficial - Glutamine, Amino Acids etc. (although a lot of the research was on larger amounts)

I've put recipes which match the two you have available at my website http://jibbering.com/sports/recovery.html and making them yourself from ingredients bought from My Protein comes in significantly cheaper (well under 10quid a kilo)

I've yet to put up my own recipe, but it generally comes in under the 10 / kilo and contains larger doses of glutamine / HMB / Amino Acids, I have no vitamins as I'm not convinced of their use in recovery, but I do add some salts, as I tend to get cramps later if I don't.

I also drink it unflavoured which makes things easier. Flavouring is one of the big problems, cocoa is cheap and easy if you like chocolate and there are flavouring powders available but they're generally in limited flavours.

Okay, so I'm more than a little bit geeky in my interest in making my own sports food, I guess it's a nasty combination of my interests in food, exercise, sports nutrition and saving money...

Make your own, it's fun! Although making your own gels is more fun, as then you have to heat things too.

jibberjim

JoeyHalloran wrote:

trying checking out my protein, if you buy in enough quanitity you can get some good deals, although you do have to buy the ingrediants seperately.

Actually they do sell a recovery mix already made up at around the 11 quid per kilo price point

.http://www.myprotein.co.uk/formulas/mp-formulas/recovery-xs-(1800g)/
-Recovery XS

Although it's pretty heavily tailored towards the body-builder not the endurance athlete with its Creatine and Leucine.

So probably still better to make your own.

SBezza

Both Rego and ZipVit work however, and are even better than FGS. The Nesquick has very little protein, though when added to milk it will raise it, but still not near the 4:1 recovery ratio of carbs: protein ratio.

Zipvit does has extra stuff in it, but the basic stuff you want in a recovery product is very simple sugar, and a very quickly digested protein, both Rego and ZipVit contain these. ZipVit is probably quicker acting as I believe it uses whey protein rather than soya protein.

arnie-77

Always a negative angle towards 'plain sugar' in sports nutrition products (see the blurb on the SIS website for example). Is sugar not fructose and glucose combined? Seems to get an unfair exclusion, just because its seen as being cheap or widely available...

The reality is lots of people struggle with digesting high energy nutrition products because they are mainly Maltodextrin with highish levels of fructose - then with a heap of artificial sweetener lumped in to make it drinkable, usually Aspartame or Sucralose.

I read on article on these products in CycleSport and they seemed pretty well founded in proper research.

Wogan

jibberjim wrote:

you really cannot go wrong by making your own

I agree, but it can be a bit of a hassle. Nesquik and a banana is quick, easy and just as good. It's all down to personal preference I suppose.

jibberjim wrote:

Rego is very basic, nothing but carbs, protein, flavour and vitamins. ZipVit includes many more things with research which has shown to be beneficial - Glutamine, Amino Acids etc.

erm...glutamine is an amino acid. And protein is made of...amino acids. Believe me, the wacky world of protein metabolism is more complex than most people can imagine. You can't reduce it down to "ingredient x at concentration y will make you recover faster". Just get protein and carbs down your neck when you get back from a ride. It doesn't have to be any more scientific than that.

jibberjim wrote:

Make your own, it's fun!

A good a reason as any.

jibberjim

SBezza wrote:

Both Rego and ZipVit work however, and are even better than FGS. The Nesquick has very little protein, though when added to milk it will raise it, but still not near the 4:1 recovery ratio of carbs: protein ratio.

Sure it does if you mix it in proportion to do that.

Zipvit does has extra stuff in it, but the basic stuff you want in a recovery product is very simple sugar.

Erm, probably not, you want quick to digest sugar, which is not necessarily the same thing, simple sugar is limited in digestiability due to it only being digested in very low concentrations. It's what Malto is used - almost a simple sugar in terms of it being a very weak bond, but is digested in much higher concentrations.

jibberjim

Wogan wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

you really cannot go wrong by making your own

I agree, but it can be a bit of a hassle. Nesquik and a banana is quick, easy and just as good. It's all down to personal preference I suppose.

My problem with nesquik is the Milk - it requires refigeration, so if you're training or racing away from home and the end of the event is at the car then you've got a lot more hassle than simply needing water your powdered mix.

I still do use nesquik too - it's tasty - but I only like it with 1% milk, and that's another pain in the neck, as not everywhere stocks it, but that's my own peculiarity.

As to the science - yes basic carb+protein is the most important thing, but increased amounts of certain amino acids, certainly has been shown to be beneficial in studies - does it make a huge difference, probably not, and if cost is your major motivator forget about 'em. But if your choice is ReGo or a similar product with them, at the same price, go for the other one, you might aswell get something for your money.

Bhima

jibberjim wrote:

My problem with nesquik is the Milk - it requires refigeration, so if you're training or racing away from home and the end of the event is at the car then you've got a lot more hassle than simply needing water your powdered mix.

Milk out of the fridge can last for DAYS - put it in a flask and you'll extend it even longer, or use sterilized milk (lasts for weeks) if you're that paranoid!

jibberjim

Bhima wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

Milk out of the fridge can last for DAYS - put it in a flask and you'll extend it even longer, or use sterilized milk (lasts for weeks) if you're that paranoid!

It certainly won't kill you that's true, but it tastes horrible not refigerated, as does UHT. But yep, I'm certainly not denying the value of nesquik and milk as a recovery drink!

shockedsoshocked

jibberjim wrote:

Wogan wrote:

jibberjim wrote:

you really cannot go wrong by making your own

I agree, but it can be a bit of a hassle. Nesquik and a banana is quick, easy and just as good. It's all down to personal preference I suppose.

My problem with nesquik is the Milk - it requires refigeration, so if you're training or racing away from home and the end of the event is at the car then you've got a lot more hassle than simply needing water your powdered mix.

Get a thermos flask, costs about a fiver for a litre sized one. Works fine.

DomPro

I had the ZipVit recovery drink today. I don't know if I made it wrong or something, but it was quite disgusting. However I feel pretty good now so it must do something good for my muscles. :?:

SBezza

jibberjim wrote:

Erm, probably not, you want quick to digest sugar, which is not necessarily the same thing, simple sugar is limited in digestiability due to it only being digested in very low concentrations. It's what Malto is used - almost a simple sugar in terms of it being a very weak bond, but is digested in much higher concentrations.

Well the carbs in Rego is Maltodextrin, not sure in the ZipVit stuff off the top of my head. If people want to use milk then it is fine, but it is not digested quick enough to get within the 20 mins timeframe for optimal recovery.

Also you can't mix Nesquik in any other ratio, than about 20:1, as that is the make up of the powder, now milk with change that, but you might as well go for straight milk, closer to the 4:1 ratio, ( though still only about 1:1) , nesquik is only going to add flavour and lots of sugar to be honest rather than a reasonable amount of sugar.

To be honest unless you scientifically test all various methods in a lab, with yourself as the guinea pig, you will never know what is the best, but I doubt pro atheletes would shove the stuff down there necks if there was a cheaper or better option.

I have used milk based recovery drinks, and find Rego to be much better, very little soreness the next day, where with FGS, this was not always the case.

SBezza

DomPro wrote:

I had the ZipVit recovery drink today. I don't know if I made it wrong or something, but it was quite disgusting. However I feel pretty good now so it must do something good for my muscles. :?:

Some people like the taste (or can put up with it), others might really hate it, that is the problem with recovery powders, they are not the best tasting always. Rego is a bit chalky, but the vanilla tastes alright.

jibberjim

SBezza wrote:

Well the carbs in Rego is Maltodextrin, not sure in the ZipVit stuff off the top of my head. If people want to use milk then it is fine, but it is not digested quick enough to get within the 20 mins timeframe for optimal recovery.

Zipvit use a mixture of Maltodextrin and Sucrose - as in regular sugar that costs 90p a kilo in your local supermarket, and is generally suggested as not a great product for reasons you give. However there is research which shows Mlikshare is successful as a recovery drink (sponsored by milk producers of course, so you may doubt it, but there is very little sports nutrition research not sponsored with some inherent conflict of interest - the failures just aren't published)

SBezza wrote:

Also you can't mix Nesquik in any other ratio, than about 20:1, as that is the make up of the powder, now milk with change that, but you might as well go for straight milk, closer to the 4:1 ratio, ( though still only about 1:1) , nesquik is only going to add flavour and lots of sugar to be honest rather than a reasonable amount of sugar.

Sure you can! Milk as you note is nearer 4:3, and nesquik is 100:0 - which means you need to add 9.6grams of nesquik to ever 100ml of milk. which is actually a fraction more than the recommended amount of 7.5grams. In fact I can't see how you could make it up to 20:1, I'm not sure 48grams of nesquik would dissolve in 100mlk of milk, it would certainly be disgusting.

SBezza wrote:

To be honest unless you scientifically test all various methods in a lab, with yourself as the guinea pig, you will never know what is the best, but I doubt pro atheletes would shove the stuff down there necks if there was a cheaper or better option.

Pro-athletes tend to be sponsored... and more importantly it's the marginal difference at the top end - the more exotic ingredients add small margins on the top - worth the cost if you're pro, maybe not worth the cost if it's going to make the difference between 15th and 19th in your next 4th cat race, or 5 minutes of your Sportive time.

SBezza wrote:

I have used milk based recovery drinks, and find Rego to be much better, very little soreness the next day, where with FGS, this was not always the case.

ReGo is nothing but protein, maltodextrin, fructose, vitamins and flavouring, it is the easiest to make yourself at a huge saving. It's also Soy Protein which is probably not optimal compared to whey protein.

SBezza

Bhima wrote:

20:1 as off the Nesquik info, 20 times more carbs compared to protein, hence the 20:1 ratio. Milk has a 1:1 ratio or near as damn it 4gms protein and 3 gms carbs per 100 ml. It is a better mix when added to milk, though I did say that as well. Though I wouldn't want to leave it in a car on a hot day whilst I did my event, I can do that quite happily with a recovery product mixed with water.

Sports recovery products generally use two types of sugars, one to act quickly, and one more longer term, though I admit, neither will be that long term.

The difference for recovery is for the next training session, or a race two days running, and ensuring you are recovered well does make a difference.

Making the stuff myself is not really cost effective, I know by paying less than £1 per recovery drink, I can get one made up with no fussing around, and a flavour I like, from my local cycling shop. I haven't got the time or inclination to fuss about mixing whey protein with maltodextrin to save a few pennies. I know Rego works better for me than a milk based product. I have had a similar experience with ZipVit as well.

Each to his own, but don't totally write them off as a waste of money, does a few pence per drink really make a huge difference, if you want to be sure to recover properly.

PS I have never come as low as 15th in a cat4 race

jibberjim

SBezza wrote:

20:1 as off the Nesquik info, 20 times more carbs compared to protein, hence the 20:1 ratio. Milk has a 1:1 ratio or near as damn it 4gms protein and 3 gms carbs per 100 ml.

You've got the ratios backwards! you want 4 carbohydrates to 1 protein, not 4 protein to 1 carb. The 100% carb in the nesquik will make up for the 3 missing carb's. Read Bhima's image for the as made up with 200ml of milk - it's 3:1, close to what's wanted.

SBezza wrote:

Making the stuff myself is not really cost effective, I know by paying less than £1 per recovery drink, I can get one made up with no fussing around, and a flavour I like, from my local cycling shop. I haven't got the time or inclination to fuss about mixing whey protein with maltodextrin to save a few pennies.

Maybe you don't, but given that you can easily make something identical to Rego for nearer 15p a shot, discussing it on a thread about "best value recovery" is pretty worthwhile discussing the cheaper options.

SBezza wrote:

I know Rego works better for me than a milk based product. I have had a similar experience with ZipVit as well.

Zipvit contains Colustrum as one of its protein sources, so is a milk based product. And I agree you can add many more things to make a better recovery drink than a milkshake, but Rego doesn't contain those things, and is barely different from nesquik in ingredients. Milk doesn't work for you, that's good to learn, but it probably will for others, people are different!

Bhima

More info on the Nesquik powder:

200ml + 15g:

Vitamin B1 - 14% RDA
Niacin - 13% RDA
Pantothenic Acid - 15% RDA
Vitamin B6 - 15% RDA
Vitamin C - 14% RDA
Vitamin D - 15% RDA
Vitamin E - 13% RDA
Folic Acid - 20% RDA
Calcium - 33% RDA
Magnesium - 15% RDA

So not bad, considering it's £1.79 a tub down my local shop.

SBezza

jibberjim wrote:

SBezza wrote:

20:1 as off the Nesquik info, 20 times more carbs compared to protein, hence the 20:1 ratio. Milk has a 1:1 ratio or near as damn it 4gms protein and 3 gms carbs per 100 ml.

You've got the ratios backwards! you want 4 carbohydrates to 1 protein, not 4 protein to 1 carb. The 100% carb in the nesquik will make up for the 3 missing carb's. Read Bhima's image for the as made up with 200ml of milk - it's 3:1, close to what's wanted.

I know it is 4 carbs to one protein, plus I did say when mixed with milk it is near the ratio.

ZipVit is whey protein based, colostrum is another ingredient, though like you say it is milk, not sure there is that much in there though, as it isn't that cheap. I have said ZipVit is probably better and cheaper than Rego, and that is what I will be using next

Not sure if 15p is correct, 500ml of milk costs more than that

Must admit it would good to see a full breakdown of all the vitamins in Nesquik, as the product info supplied is not that great, then again for the majority of those that use it, it doesn't need to be. Still can't keep milk all day in a hot car though, and still drink it, well I wouldn't anyhow.

Anyhow we will have to agree to differ, I think recovery products do work, and are probably better than milk based drinks, though I do not have any independent info of what actual is best for recovery, so until that is done, I guess we can surmise which is best.

As the current offer stands, I think the ZipVit offer is a very good one, probably only bettered by buying the individual ingredients separately, and then finding the best mix. This is for proper recovery products, no doubt Nesquik and milk is cheaper, though not as handy most of the time.

SBezza

Bhima wrote:

More info on the Nesquik powder:

200ml + 15g:

Vitamin B1 - 14% RDA
Niacin - 13% RDA
Pantothenic Acid - 15% RDA
Vitamin B6 - 15% RDA
Vitamin C - 14% RDA
Vitamin D - 15% RDA
Vitamin E - 13% RDA
Folic Acid - 20% RDA
Calcium - 33% RDA
Magnesium - 15% RDA

So not bad, considering it's £1.79 a tub down my local shop.

Thanks Bhima

Bhima

The RDA of a cyclist will be more than the average person but, then again, you'll probably want a lot more than 200ml of recovery drink, which will make up for that.

Blend up with a banana and you can add the following to the drink:

Potassium - 467 mg
Magnesium - 43 mg - 15% RDA - I think
Phosphorus - 27 mg
Calcium - 7 mg
Selenium - 1.3 mg
Iron - .4 mg
Zinc - trace
Copper - trace
Manganese - trace
Vitamin A - 95 IU
Vitamin C - 11 mg - 18% RDA - I think
Folate - 22.5 mcg
Vitamin B6 - .7mcg
Niacin - .6 mg
Pantothenic Acid - .31 mg
Vitamin E - .67 IU

So a couple of bananas and 40g of Nesquik with 600ml of milk should pretty much cover everything (or a large amount).

SBezza

Yeah if you base the quantity on 500ml, I don't think Nesquik, with milk and banana's is significantly cheaper than 500ml of a dedicated recovery product. Milk alone is at least 45p of that.

Bhima

45p?

I get 4L bottles of milk for £1.60 - although my local shop is stupidly cheap.

So it works out 20p/500ml for me.

SBezza

That price was based on a 1 pint bottle, just know that as I bought one the other day. I usually get 2 pint bottles, so slightly cheaper than 45p per 500ml.

Your shop must be cheap, sure a 4 pint bottle in Tescos cost more than that, 4 pints is just over 2 litres.