How do I get into road racing?
Comments
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haggisinlondon wrote:One concern I have is being dropped on my first race.
just accept it as 'likely' and then you won't be disappointed......racing is a learning curve and being dropped occasionally is part of that learning curve....0 -
haggisinlondon wrote:HI guys, I have also been looking at getting into Road racing and been spending a lot of time doing intervals etc. One concern I have is being dropped on my first race.
Jibberjim mentioned pedalling easy then try again. I am assuming you mean when the bunch come round the circuit again, you can join on but not compete? If this is the case I guess you would not feel like too much of an idiot if you got dropped?
There's no reason to feel like an idiot if you get dropped. I reckon in an average road race at lower levels at least a third of the field get dropped or drop out. It took me a lot of races before I finished in the bunch, the first time I did it felt like I'd won it!0 -
lfcquin wrote:Jibberjim mentions circuit races. If they are tight circuits with lots of corners then these types of races will be the hardest to try and hang on the back of the bunch. Every time you hit a corner you will be sprinting your heart out to just stay on the back of the bunch. I'd recommend looking around for some TLI road races or BC 4th Cat road races on flat road circuits rather than tight crits in parks or town centres.
Hillingdon circuit maybe a circuit race, but it's extremely relaxed, not as easy as Chertsey was, but that's no more. I think perhaps it's one of the gentlest introductions you can get. A Short circuit, corners you can always pedal through if you need to.
I also disagree that you're unlikely to be able to stay with the group the 2nd time around if you couldn't the first. it's easy to make a mistake and get dropped in your first races that has nothing to do with fitness.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
haggisinlondon wrote:HI guys, I have also been looking at getting into Road racing and been spending a lot of time doing intervals etc. One concern I have is being dropped on my first race.
Jibberjim mentioned pedalling easy then try again. I am assuming you mean when the bunch come round the circuit again, you can join on but not compete? If this is the case I guess you would not feel like too much of an idiot if you got dropped?
I'm also a National level Commissaire and in a RR i wouldn't let you rejoin I'd get the commissaire up front to tell you not to rejoin (although if youv'e been dropped once you are likley to be dropped again. In a crit its different although you are only allowed a lap out for mechanicals - not for a rest - although if you are lapped you may be allowed to continue but be pulled out before the end.
Don't worry about being dropped though - I've seen people being dropped at the start when the race was still neutralised. \You'll get there in the end.0 -
amaferanga wrote:I'm another planning on doing some road racing this year for the first time. Can anyone recommend something not too far from Sheffield early on in the season to get me going? Anyone done the Darley Moor closed circuit one?
have a look at http://www.theleagueinternational.com/northmidlands.htm
plenty for you to go at and TLI races are spot on for your first year of racing. Darley Moor is a pain to get to from Sheff, always cold also, even in Summer!.
also www.nmrrl.org.uk has some video footage of the finishing sprints for the Thursday night TLI road race league in north mids, Might give you an idea of what to expect.0 -
Didn't want to start a new topic, but just to check...
If I enter a race as a 4th cat - do I get 10 points if I beat all the other 4th cats or do I have to beat the whole field to get the full points? Just curious - will settle my heart as well after reading the winning times from last year. :shock:The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome0 -
You have to beat every one.fastercyclist wrote:Didn't want to start a new topic, but just to check...
If I enter a race as a 4th cat - do I get 10 points if I beat all the other 4th cats or do I have to beat the whole field to get the full points? Just curious - will settle my heart as well after reading the winning times from last year. :shock:0 -
gandhi wrote:
You have to beat every one.fastercyclist wrote:Didn't want to start a new topic, but just to check...
If I enter a race as a 4th cat - do I get 10 points if I beat all the other 4th cats or do I have to beat the whole field to get the full points? Just curious - will settle my heart as well after reading the winning times from last year. :shock:
Even if it's a E/1/2/3/4 race? :?
It's a regional C+The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome0 -
Yes - probably a handicap race, so 4ths get set off first, then 3rds etc, Normally the fun and games start when the 1sts and Elites catch up with youfastercyclist wrote:Even if it's a E/1/2/3/4 race? :?
It's a regional C+
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I have never seen e,1,2,3,4 race, only e,1,2,3, e,1,2, 3,4 or 4.
In each case you have to beat the field for the points.0 -
Yeah.
Only raced three times last year - got dropped each time within the first couple of miles. In fact, on two occasions it was within the first mile
My fastest 10 is a 26.30 to give you an idea of my ability so I ain't a slouch, nor am I particularly fast but I was surprised that I couldn't hold on a bit longer. Made me realise how good some 4th and 3rd cats actually are.
Also, I don't think I warmed up properly for those races and got shocked when the hammer went down so quickly. I can recall going off in the second group of an APR and looking at the speedo which said 27mph and the rest of the bunch just stretched away from me into the distance :shock:
Personally I still enjoyed the racing and will do a lot more to try to finish in the main bunch in a race this season. I was told by a few other people that the first 5 miles are the hardest as folks tend to go mad and try to shell weaker ones out.
My advice - Anyone thinking of it should defo give it a go - just don't get your hopes up too high unless you are some kind of undiscovered protege'!0 -
I actually think cycling has a very high 'barrier to entry' on that basis.
Someone posted a great line here once that I remember very vividly: it basically stated that the lowest level of cycle racing in the UK demands a much higher ability than any other sport, and I would agree.
4th Cat racing is hard. I mean, very hard. I've never finished in the bunch and yet I would consider myself very fit - compared to the average person, that is. I've run fast marathons, ridden the marmotte, but I'm still at the back when it comes to racing.
Compare this to running, where anyone can enter a half marathon and still do well no matter where they finish.
Often, I wish there were a '5th Cat' for real beginners so that those who are a little slower can still enjoy the racing. It can be demoralising getting droppped.
My advice is the same as others; just give it a go. If you're dropped, race organisers will often let you rejoin if they are nice and don't run the world by the rulebook. Especially in our first race, they'll normally be quite forgiving (at the least surrey league were in their beginners races).
Over time you'll improve and hang on for longer, until you can hold the bunch all the way round.0 -
Well cheers for the responses guys. Got a bit more motivation not to sink my teeth into cake, fear of even-faster cyclists
Will still give it a shot. The British Empire never died, it just moved to the Velodrome0 -
If you're training hard then you can sink your teeth into cake And lots of it! 0
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Come and do the Northants Cycle Racing Association Spring Handicaps with me then Dave - 1st one the 4ths group stayed away and the guy who won had never won a race before. Couple of weeks later an Elite started some 10 mins behind our group and came blasting through after 15 miles leaving bodies in his wake - 'twas carnage!oldwelshman wrote:I have never seen e,1,2,3,4 race0 -
SheffSimon wrote:amaferanga wrote:I'm another planning on doing some road racing this year for the first time. Can anyone recommend something not too far from Sheffield early on in the season to get me going? Anyone done the Darley Moor closed circuit one?
have a look at http://www.theleagueinternational.com/northmidlands.htm
plenty for you to go at and TLI races are spot on for your first year of racing. Darley Moor is a pain to get to from Sheff, always cold also, even in Summer!.
also www.nmrrl.org.uk has some video footage of the finishing sprints for the Thursday night TLI road race league in north mids, Might give you an idea of what to expect.
That looks interesting. Do I need to be a member of BC to do these events?More problems but still living....0 -
barrybridges wrote:I've run fast marathons, ridden the marmotte, but I'm still at the back when it comes to racing.
this supports the theory that the only thing that gets you fit for racing is....racing. The other theory is that fitness is only 50% of the game - the other 50% is tactics. In other words, if you are sitting at the back of the bunch expecting to get dropped as soon as the race is de-neutralised, then you probably will be. If, on the other hand, you are right in the middle of the field when the flag goes down, you will probably not even notice the increase in pace...0 -
barrybridges wrote:I actually think cycling has a very high 'barrier to entry' on that basis.
Someone posted a great line here once that I remember very vividly: it basically stated that the lowest level of cycle racing in the UK demands a much higher ability than any other sport, and I would agree.
4th Cat racing is hard. I mean, very hard. I've never finished in the bunch and yet I would consider myself very fit - compared to the average person, that is. I've run fast marathons, ridden the marmotte, but I'm still at the back when it comes to racing.
Compare this to running, where anyone can enter a half marathon and still do well no matter where they finish.
Often, I wish there were a '5th Cat' for real beginners so that those who are a little slower can still enjoy the racing. It can be demoralising getting droppped.
My advice is the same as others; just give it a go. If you're dropped, race organisers will often let you rejoin if they are nice and don't run the world by the rulebook. Especially in our first race, they'll normally be quite forgiving (at the least surrey league were in their beginners races).
Over time you'll improve and hang on for longer, until you can hold the bunch all the way round.
i`am long enough in the tooth to remember the days before there was a 4th cat, it was pro/1/2/3. now that was tough.
there were many,many calls to introduce a 4th cat for the slower riders. the bcf as it was then ,eventually gave in ,which probably was a good move but now you want a 5th cat . you got to draw the line somewhere or we`d just have hundreds of different catagories,so everybody could could win. where would the point be in that?
just to give you an idea how quick it is at the other end of the scale , many years ago ,i rode a handicap event and was in with the E; 1. we clocked the first 10 miles of the event in 17 mins 40 secs. we were going through and off in a perfect chain at which point we caught the group in front and it went all pear shaped, because they just got in the way.
i`ve also seen riders get dropped in the neutralised zone before the race has even started proper. although this generally only happens when the lower cats try and mix it, with the e/1.constantly reavalueating the situation and altering the perceived parameters accordingly0 -
In terms of where the line is drawn: how about at a point where beginners feel motivated enough to want to race again?
If you're dropped spectacularly in your first race then it's not a great feeling. But many people go a whole season without ever managing to hang onto the bunch. They might still be 'fit' people doing training a few days a week. But the standard of 4th Cat is still high.
I'm guessing that many people try road racing, get dropped and think 'how can I be that unfit?' and either never race again or are at least put off for a while. That's certainly how I felt.
There are a lot of people in the UK who I'd argue fall into the 'slow but keen' bracket. Without wanting to cause offence, I'm talking about the 26 minute + people on a 10m TT. These people aren't slow - they are fit - but that level of fitness will probably (gross generalisation) cause them to be dropped on a 4th Cat RR, all being equal.
It's not a case of having categories so that everyone can win, but to have categories where at least everyone feels a bit competitive would be good.0 -
softlad wrote:barrybridges wrote:I've run fast marathons, ridden the marmotte, but I'm still at the back when it comes to racing.
this supports the theory that the only thing that gets you fit for racing is....racing. The other theory is that fitness is only 50% of the game - the other 50% is tactics. In other words, if you are sitting at the back of the bunch expecting to get dropped as soon as the race is de-neutralised, then you probably will be. If, on the other hand, you are right in the middle of the field when the flag goes down, you will probably not even notice the increase in pace...
You're probably right, actually. I think perhaps the key issue is that different people push themselves different amounts. After my first road race, my definition of 'intense effort' changed massively. I found myself working at maximum HR just to keep up with the bunch - whenever the group went uphill, I went backwards.
I sort of worry in that regard - I'm fit, train plenty, go to the gym...but I still can't keep up with the slow ones....and I'm 27?!?!?!?0 -
i agree wholeheartedly with the slow but keen sentiment-from personal experience too!
I also agree that the only way to get race fit-especially for people like me is to train with people who are stronger and get a good doing on a regular basis. So that is what i'll try this year
i'd also be wary of assuming the tli races are easy!
The tli races i did up here in scotland were excellent and of a very high standard0 -
grantus wrote:I also agree that the only way to get race fit-especially for people like me is to train with people who are stronger and get a good doing on a regular basis.
chaingangs FTW0 -
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Are all cat 4 races over fairly short distances, like 30-50 miles?More problems but still living....0
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There are hardly any Cat 4 only road races (ie on the public highway) - most are circuit races and tend to be 1hr+laps format (so around 30 miles in distance). Of the few 4ths only road races I've done, they've all be around 30 miles max.amaferanga wrote:Are all cat 4 races over fairly short distances, like 30-50 miles?
50 miles may not sound like much, but that's the sort of distance of a mid-length 3/4 race and will be around 2 hours flat out.0 -
Bronzie wrote:
There are hardly any Cat 4 only road races (ie on the public highway) - most are circuit races and tend to be 1hr+laps format (so around 30 miles in distance). Of the few 4ths only road races I've done, they've all be around 30 miles max.amaferanga wrote:Are all cat 4 races over fairly short distances, like 30-50 miles?
50 miles may not sound like much, but that's the sort of distance of a mid-length 3/4 race and will be around 2 hours flat out.
The reasons I was asking are because firstly I think I'd be more suited to longer events and secondly, from the sounds of it most cat 4 races are balls-out efforts, but if they were longer then they would need a bit more thought with regard pacing.More problems but still living....0 -
they are 4th cat races!amaferanga wrote:if they were longer then they would need a bit more thought with regard pacing.
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Look for longer 3/4 races - even then you aren't likely to get up to 75 miles plus unless you enter a 2nd cat race. Alternatively just enter shorter races but be more aggressive - train according to the type of races you are targeting - maybe you are more suited to longer sportive type rides because your training tends towards longer hard rides but without the balls out intervals ?
it's a hard life if you don't weaken.0 -
barrybridges wrote:In terms of where the line is drawn: how about at a point where beginners feel motivated enough to want to race again?
If you're dropped spectacularly in your first race then it's not a great feeling. But many people go a whole season without ever managing to hang onto the bunch. They might still be 'fit' people doing training a few days a week. But the standard of 4th Cat is still high.
I'm guessing that many people try road racing, get dropped and think 'how can I be that unfit?' and either never race again or are at least put off for a while. That's certainly how I felt.
There are a lot of people in the UK who I'd argue fall into the 'slow but keen' bracket. Without wanting to cause offence, I'm talking about the 26 minute + people on a 10m TT. These people aren't slow - they are fit - but that level of fitness will probably (gross generalisation) cause them to be dropped on a 4th Cat RR, all being equal.
It's not a case of having categories so that everyone can win, but to have categories where at least everyone feels a bit competitive would be good.
I'm another of the dinosaurs from the 3 category days (races weren't classified then either) and haven't raced since the introduction of 4th cat races. IME the races with 1st and 2nd cats were often easier than the 3rd and Junior races as they tended to be that bit more controlled. I often got dropped but it never put me off. I suspect the problems with 4th cat racing are that the shorter distances and lack of experience lead to riders going off too fast, too soon. This used to be the case in the 3/J races too. Unfortunately to break down into category winners would need photo finish equipment or electronic tags. In marathons this is possible as the fields tend to be large and the cost can be broken down over a lot of entrants but in cycling the maximum field sizes would make it a substantial extra cost.
Also, cycle racing is fairly unique as it is an endurance event but has a lot of sprint type efforts in it. This may happen to some degree in top level running but not really among your average runner who will maintain a fairly consistent pace. It also means that you need to be tactically able to react to these bursts as well as physically capable. That said, everyone started somewhere so it can't be all that hard to get into surely? :?0
