Elitism

sarajoy

Lots of comments on this lately!

I think a lot of it is down to people misunderstanding the cheeky banter that goes on in here.

But a lot of it also appears to be a misunderstanding by the established forum members who possibly don't remember what it was like to be a bit new and unsure, or unable to afford a new road bike...

...which they may not want anyway. Maybe they simply want flat bars and the possibility of cycling in the woods - and there's nothing wrong with that - people need to work out what works for them. If they try flats and eventually move to drops, don't consider it an "I told you so" moment, but a learning curve they've just ridden along.

Also, it's very likely that I am one of these slightly new-and-wobbly "numpties" that are complained about.

Can some people please be a little more tolerant - and others possibly slack off on the "such-and-such-is-crap" comments.

redddraggon

sarajoy wrote:

But a lot of it also appears to be a misunderstanding by the established forum members who possibly don't remember what it was like to be a bit new and unsure, or unable to afford a new road bike...

I blindly followed my road racing and time trialling flatmate into getting what he told me....and that was a bike with drops......and I haven't looked back since.

I for one, am glad that I skipped the "buying-the-crappy-hybrid" stage of my cycling journey - so what wrong with passing that advice on?

robmanic1

redddraggon wrote:

sarajoy wrote:

But a lot of it also appears to be a misunderstanding by the established forum members who possibly don't remember what it was like to be a bit new and unsure, or unable to afford a new road bike...

I blindly followed my road racing and time trialling flatmate into getting what he told me....and that was a bike with drops......and I haven't looked back since.

I for one, am glad that I skipped the "buying-the-crappy-hybrid" stage of my cycling journey - so what wrong with passing that advice on?

I think it's probably more to do with presentation than content.

sarajoy

redddraggon, as Robmanic1 said - I think it's more that a lot of it comes across as "nothing else will do" and is very off-putting to someone who is just getting started.

I'm saying that as someone in the middle who was/is scared of drop bars and am very pleased to have my new flattie.

It just alienates everyone who's already got their bike, or has made their decision (like me), or can't afford just buy-buy-buying.

DonDaddyD

sarajoy wrote:

Lots of comments on this lately!

I think a lot of it is down to people misunderstanding the cheeky banter that goes on in here.

Yep!!!! +1

But a lot of it also appears to be a misunderstanding by the established forum members who possibly don't remember what it was like to be a bit new and unsure,

Nope!!! -1

or unable to afford a new road bike...

This I think is a seperate issue.

This has everything to do with personal disposable income and the perspective it has given them. A person offering advice can only speak from their perspective. So if £100 on a seat post :P isn't expensive to that individual it isn't elitism it's just down to what they own and how they rationalise value.

Example: I was saying to a friend (who recently got married in the Temple church in London, you can't just get married there you have to be related to someone who is a judge of some kind. In this instance the Father of the Bride is a Chief Justice - I think). I told him that my next bike will cost around £1500 (which he had in cash) we got into discussion and he told me he saves around £800 a month. That's a lot of money to me, that's saving money for him.

...which they may not want anyway. Maybe they simply want flat bars and the possibility of cycling in the woods - and there's nothing wrong with that - people need to work out what works for them. If they try flats and eventually move to drops, don't consider it an "I told you so" moment, but a learning curve they've just ridden along.

:shock:

Whoa, where has that come from. Urm, ok fair point.

I see the Flat vs Drops, like I see the Big Mac vs Whopper discussion. Its personal preference with people passionately attaching themselves to one or the other.

I'll eat both by the way

Also, it's very likely that I am one of these slightly new-and-wobbly "numpties" that are complained about.

Depends, do you RLJ, ignore most of the rules of the road and the general road safety of others and yourself because of inexperience or arrogance or even both? If not then I'd say your not a numpty

Rich158

I was reminded of this a few weeks ago when a guy and his niece turned up for our club run on £80 full suss heavy chunks of iron :shock: Our club captain always opeartes an open house policy, although after a few miles they took a shorter route as the reality of a 40 mile ride set in. However did they enjoy the ride any less compared to the rest of us on our expensive road bikes, not one bit, and they left us with smiling faces and an aspiration to get a proper road bike one day.

Whilst they may have been beginners on hopelessly inapropriate bikes, the enjoyment they got out of the simple act of cycling wasn't demished in any way and I'm willing to bet they enjoyed the ride as much as any of us, and at the end of the day that's what it's all about

sarajoy

DDD why do most of your posts want to make me go "Fair enough!" ?!

The flats/drops thing has come along as I've seen it in several threads, and maybe I'm sensitive as I have flats

OK, so maybe I'm no numpty. But I'm indistinguishable from one unless he or she does something stupid right next to me. And TBH, I bet I do a few daft things too.

DonDaddyD

redddraggon wrote:

I for one, am glad that I skipped the "buying-the-crappy-hybrid" stage of my cycling journey - so what wrong with passing that advice on?

I went through this stage. Jaysus, bloody horrifc £260 down the drain.

The crappy-hybrid stage is like a filtering process to ensure only the most enthusiastic cyclists make it to the Nirvana that is the Road Bike.

It's Darwinism. Survival of the fittest, seperating the Men from the boys and all that.

robmanic1

I suppose the beauty of a forum such as this is that it brings out all levels of rider from "numpties" on £50 clunkers to "numpties" on £5k racing thoroughbreds. We're all prone to numptyism at one point or another in our lives, a fact, I fear, we sometimes forget.
I do think comments are mostly well meant on here, if not sometimes, particularly well delivered.

Kieran_Burns

DonDaddyD wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

I for one, am glad that I skipped the "buying-the-crappy-hybrid" stage of my cycling journey - so what wrong with passing that advice on?

I went through this stage. Jaysus, bloody horrifc £260 down the drain.

The crappy-hybrid stage is like a filtering process to ensure only the most enthusiastic cyclists make it to the Nirvana that is the Road Bike.

It's Darwinism. Survival of the fittest, seperating the Men from the boys and all that.

Whereas I went from a road bike TO a CX bike as the road bike was inappropriate. Does this make a numpty in the making?

DonDaddyD

sarajoy wrote:

DDD why do most of your posts want to make me go "Fair enough!" ?!

Perhaps because your helplessly attracted to me and you can't help yourself but to agree with me... 8)

Do you flutter your eyes everytime you type a response to me? 8) 8) 8)

I don't know why my posts make you want to say that, only you can answer that....

OK, so maybe I'm no numpty. But I'm indistinguishable from one unless he or she does something stupid right next to me. And TBH, I bet I do a few daft things too.

I wouldn't call you a numpty, I would call you a beginner (though I don't know your level of experience to make that claim). I from what you've written I don't think your an overly aggressive or offensive rider.

redddraggon

Kieran_Burns wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

I for one, am glad that I skipped the "buying-the-crappy-hybrid" stage of my cycling journey - so what wrong with passing that advice on?

I went through this stage. Jaysus, bloody horrifc £260 down the drain.

The crappy-hybrid stage is like a filtering process to ensure only the most enthusiastic cyclists make it to the Nirvana that is the Road Bike.

It's Darwinism. Survival of the fittest, seperating the Men from the boys and all that.

Whereas I went from a road bike TO a CX bike as the road bike was inappropriate. Does this make a numpty in the making?

Cyclocross bikes are cool

woodyonthebeach

DDD - I think you would make a great lawyer as you always give valid points back to an argument/Statements.

DonDaddyD

Robmanic1 wrote:

numpties" on £5k racing thoroughbreds.

WHOA! Let's not be calling LiT's (who is soon to take delivery of a Viner Maxima - though we don't what price she paid, speculation has it ranging anywhere from the price of a Spitfire to that of a Concorde) a numpty. One of the nicest, kindest most welcoming people I've met and she doesn't have to be.

If she's got the money to afford it I'm not one to hate. It's liek saying to a person you don't need a BMW 5 series you could have a Mondeo, if they have the money they have the money and if they don't they don't.

Personally I don't judge the cost of the bike, but the bike itself.

robmanic1

woodyonthebeach wrote:

DDD - I think you would make a great lawyer as you always give valid points back to an argument/Statements.

Gosh, you know how to hurt a guy!

DonDaddyD

woodyonthebeach wrote:

DDD - I think you would make a great lawyer as you always give valid points back to an argument/Statements.

Thank you!

robmanic1

DonDaddyD wrote:

WHOA! Let's not be calling LiT's (who is soon to take delivery of a Viner Maxima) a numpty. One of the nicest, kindest most welcoming people I've met and she doesn't have to be.

If she's got the money to afford it I'm not one to hate. It's liek saying to a person you don't need a BMW 5 series you could have a Mondeo, if they have the money they have the money and if they don't they don't.

Personally I don't judge the cost of the bike, but the bike itself.

That's one heck of an assumption DonD, I had no idea LiT's new bike was worth that much!

Rich158

DonDaddyD wrote:

Personally I don't judge the cost of the bike, but the bike itself.

I couldn't agree more, it's a case of the right tool for the job. Hence road bikes for the road, mountainbikes for off road shennanigans, and hybrids do a bit of both.

but cyclocross bikes are just wrong whichever way you look at it

DonDaddyD

Robmanic1 wrote:

That's one heck of an assumption DonD, I had no idea LiT's new bike was worth that much!

My apologies chivalry got the better of me...

sarajoy

I like the banter.

And I like that people are direct!

Also I agree that probably everyone here is well-meaning - if they're being massively and obviously elitist it's usually due to banter, a mickey-take of themselves, or just pure enthusiasm!

But like up there where Robmanic1 mentioned numpties on £5k bikes - and DonDaddyD reacted hugely because he thought it was meant that that person is a numpty /because/ the bike costs £5k...
...see how it goes? I bet Rob only meant that you get numpties riding all kinds of equipment....

Christophe3967

This forum is simply a microcosm and so you'll find a range of views here, along with some fairly opinionated people However I don't detect any great sense of elitism, and I think DDD has, as is his wont, summed things up rather well.

Kieran_Burns

Rich158 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Personally I don't judge the cost of the bike, but the bike itself.

I couldn't agree more, it's a case of the right tool for the job. Hence road bikes for the road, mountainbikes for off road shennanigans, and hybrids do a bit of both.

but cyclocross bikes are just wrong whichever way you look at it

Now hang on a minute! :P

I have drop bars and a roadie frame but can cope with surfaces you roadie types would wuss out at with yer 23c razor blades. One trip down the 4 mile bridlke way I do and you'd be incapable of fathering children not to mention weeping unconsoleably into your silk hankies at the pretzels your wheels have been turned into.

robmanic1

sarajoy wrote:

:
But like up there where Robmanic1 mentioned numpties on £5k bikes - and DonDaddyD reacted hugely because he thought it was meant that that person is a numpty /because/ the bike costs £5k...
...see how it goes? I bet Rob only meant that you get numpties riding all kinds of equipment....

Erm..........(clears throat), why yes, yes of course, that's exactly what I meant.

DonDaddyD

Exactly.

I think Greg66 is a Numpty for having two Cervelo's, He should give one to me!

greg66_tri_v2.0

sarajoy wrote:

Also I agree that probably everyone here is well-meaning - if they're being massively and obviously elitist it's usually due to banter, a mickey-take of themselves, or just pure enthusiasm!

Nope. I'm mean spirited and nasty. I have no sense of irony. I genuinely scalp people when riding - blood and skin and hair everywhere. I'm on the "Most Wanted" list in 14 postcodes in London.

And I *flatly* refuse to speak to anyone who doesn't have a 5K bike. With drops. I sneer in their general direction.

Works for me!

always_tyred

sarajoy wrote:

Also I agree that probably everyone here is well-meaning - if they're being massively and obviously elitist it's usually due to banter, a mickey-take of themselves, or just pure enthusiasm!

I'm not well meaning, or enthusiastic. Stop insulting me like this.

Get drop handlebars, good ones, with some carbon fibre levers. Or you are lame.

.... on which point, why not (apart from the carbon)? I have a bike with mechanical discs and drop bars. I'd love to configure my mtb like this beause riding it makes my wrists hurt, and I only haven't bothered because I hardly use it and it has hydraulic brakes.

Rich158

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Personally I don't judge the cost of the bike, but the bike itself.

I couldn't agree more, it's a case of the right tool for the job. Hence road bikes for the road, mountainbikes for off road shennanigans, and hybrids do a bit of both.

but cyclocross bikes are just wrong whichever way you look at it

Now hang on a minute! :P

I have drop bars and a roadie frame but can cope with surfaces you roadie types would wuss out at with yer 23c razor blades. One trip down the 4 mile bridlke way I do and you'd be incapable of fathering children not to mention weeping unconsoleably into your silk hankies at the pretzels your wheels have been turned into.

Ahhh, but you see I'm also a closet off roader (or closet roadie to my DH mates, it all depends on which side of the fence you're going to sit on), I ride XC and DH, I just wouldn't do it on a road bike with knobbly tyres:roll:

il_principe

Greg66 wrote:

sarajoy wrote:

Also I agree that probably everyone here is well-meaning - if they're being massively and obviously elitist it's usually due to banter, a mickey-take of themselves, or just pure enthusiasm!

Nope. I'm mean spirited and nasty. I have no sense of irony. I genuinely scalp people when riding - blood and skin and hair everywhere. I'm on the "Most Wanted" list in 14 postcodes in London.

And I *flatly* refuse to speak to anyone who doesn't have a 5K bike. With drops. I sneer in their general direction.

Works for me!

And me, although just sneering is a bit pathetic. Try hissing at them... works for me (at least it does when deign to pay them any attention at all).

*sniff.

Greg T

So are we having a go at bikes with straight bars or not?

Point me at the target and I'm your man, in particular those fixed riding, fat, balding guys on Konas. Those guys need taking down a peg - get some gears Tubster - it'll help you to move your lard!

Damn Blue on blue

MAN DOWN


Medic!

DonDaddyD

I think Lycra and lycra makes me look sexy and displays my superior genes. The fact that I'm on a road bike expresses this unending truth even more so. My kit and bike (though cheap) looks expensive and therefore gives the illusion that I am successful in life.

I look awesome dressed as a roadie. People fear me... thinking things like "Ooooo He must be fast/strong/fit/energetic he's wearing lycra"

If I was shaved I'd have to take up the oldest profession.

If I was a MTBer on the other hand all baggies and hairy, I'd just smell. Flatbars are for girls and ladyboys afraid of going commando and sticking bum in the air. Hybrids are the bisexuals of the cycling world, incapable of making a commitment to one or the other.....

Cyclocross is just a fetish along the S&M route....

Whoa did I just say that!

greg66_tri_v2.0

DonDaddyD wrote:

Exactly.

I think Greg66 is a Numpty for having two Cervelo's, He should give one to me!

Which would make you .. half a numpty?

Strange sense of ambition :shock: