Sportives entry fees
Comments
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Here we go again....why do a few people constantly whinge about entry fees?....listen...if you think it's not worth it then don't bloody do it....guys moaning about something they aint gonna ride anyway?......makes no sense at all?
Very simple this..
1. Not like it? = Don't do it.
2. Not bothered? = Do it.
3. Not like it but still want to do it? = Do it and don't complain.
As i've said tons of times....away to a football match and pay for a ticket....see how much that costs you....0 -
RICHYBOYcp wrote:Here we go again....why do a few people constantly whinge about entry fees?....listen...if you think it's not worth it then don't bloody do it....guys moaning about something they aint gonna ride anyway?......makes no sense at all?
Very simple this..
1. Not like it? = Don't do it.
2. Not bothered? = Do it.
3. Not like it but still want to do it? = Do it and don't complain.
As i've said tons of times....away to a football match and pay for a ticket....see how much that costs you....
....or as free market economic theorist, Albert Hirschman described 'Exit, Voice and Loyalty'.
Exit - where a customer feels that they gain no benefit from a product and decide to withdraw from the relationship;
Voice - where a customer feel aggrieved by the nature of the relationship (as expressed by some individuals on this thread.
Loyalty - where a customer feels loyal and supportive to a brand.
These three principles are inter-related. Any body delivering a product (or sportive) should only ignore these at their peril. Clearly, a good organiser will develop a sense of loyalty amongst their customers. For me personally, I am loyal to the Epic events as they provide good value for money, whilst I have exited a number of others due to their poor delivery.
Sorry Richyboy, being an academic I thought that I would have to theorise your concept somehow
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Yeah I've seen many of the usual guys here who are very 'suspicious' of the money raised on a Sportive.
Many come from more traditional backgrounds like Audax,TTs & Racing...
Now we all have very different abilities and preferences....
For me.....an Audax does not appeal...I do not want to look at any mapping whilst on a huge route...I do that when cycling every weekend throughout the year anyway....Its not my preference but others luv em...great, it gets guys on the bikes.
Racing,TTs......Im not nearly talented enough to take part, I cannot abide going at a 100% all the time...in fact I can't think of anything more awful....however, others need the competition and need to push so hard so great, it gets guys on the bike.
Sportives, Now this is for me.....
I don't feel out of place at all, my limited ability is shared with many others.
The routes usually entail the toughest of terrain which mean mountaineous areas...which I simply adore...scenery is a big player in my love of cycling...
Due to them being hilly they usually test me to the absolute maximum and I feel pure acheivement afterwards.
They are fully signposted.
The feeds are usually of an excellent standard. (the DLMC had even hot pasta at 1 feed last year)
The feeling of riding with tons of others is very exciting.
Sag wagons, Back up First Aiders
Spares at Feedstations.
Costing...anything between £8 - £50....
What do you get for the money?....usually all of the above with some addition usually like a Free T-shirt / Certificate / Bottle....after ride small meal.....and on one or two events closed roads....
Where does the profit go to?....Depends...but here's a few examples...
Macmillan Nurses, Marie Curie, Youth Cycling, Dave Rayner Fund, Tearfund Charity, Adult Leukemia Center, Child Hospice....other Hospices....and many more....
Wanna have a gripe at any of the above profiteers?....I dare ye!
Sometimes the money maybe profited for other unknown uses...like help run established Bike Shops?....and maybe also to plough in money to more events and better conditions for future events?
Again, Great!, its gets guys on bikes.
I've a limit on how much I think is acceptable for a sportive...its my own personal viewpoint, however I certainly do not mind paying upto £35 for a 100 odd mile fully signposted route with 3 or 4 feeds and much more....
These events have given me personally some of my greatest cycling adventures and will continue to do so, they motivate me to sign up for unknown UK areas where I can enjoy the splender of another gorgous slice of the UK...and the fact they are so popular means its getting more guys out on bikes.
If you have rode many and do not think they are worth the cost then refrain from doing so, If you think they can be improved to make them more cost worthy then contact the organiser with constructive feedback....try and help them make it a better experience for future runnings?
If you are simply moaning about the cost and have never rode any then you must question your motive?0 -
RICHYBOYcp wrote:an Audax does not appeal...I do not want to look at any mapping whilst on a huge route..
Nor do I, that's why I plug it all into a GPS and follow what it tells me to do. Never go off route (I don't use autorouting) and don't have to rely on routesheets either. 80 quid is all it cost me.
I also like doing (considerably) more than 100 miles.--
If I had a baby elephant signature, I\'d use that.0 -
RICHYBOYcp wrote:
As i've said tons of times....away to a football match and pay for a ticket....see how much that costs you....
Yep, I'll vouch for that Richyboy. Many a time I've spent £40 on a footie ticket, and came away feeling ripped off.
Sportives are here to stay, and like most people have said, if you don't wanna pay the rate, don't go."There are no hills, there is no wind, I feel no pain !"
"A bad day on the bike is always better than a good day in the office !"0 -
CumbrianMan wrote:RICHYBOYcp wrote:
As i've said tons of times....away to a football match and pay for a ticket....see how much that costs you....
Yep, I'll vouch for that Richyboy. Many a time I've spent £40 on a footie ticket, and came away feeling ripped off.
Sportives are here to stay, and like most people have said, if you don't wanna pay the rate, don't go.
I fully agree wirh both Richyboy's comments and those of CumbrianMan. I don't begrudge the money for the fantastic, painful, memorable days I've had over the last few years.
Without the efforts of organisers I would have had a much less fulfilled last few years.0 -
RICHYBOY;
nobody's having a go here at the charity events so that's not really fair to bring into the argument. Saying "if you don't like it don't do it" again and again is not really a discussion is it?
There have been some interesting replies here ranging from the very reasonable small return for 3 days hard graft (and we all know there's an awful lot more time required beforehand) to large scal events where all the money seems to go on expenses
keep the replies coming 0 -
Is there anything wrong in some people making a profit? I thought that was what the economy was based on. It's down to the individual whether they want to buy the services or not. My suspicion is that even the most expensive large scale events produce only a very modest hourly rate for the work put in by organisers.0
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CumbrianMan wrote:RICHYBOYcp wrote:
As i've said tons of times....away to a football match and pay for a ticket....see how much that costs you....
Yep, I'll vouch for that Richyboy. Many a time I've spent £40 on a footie ticket, and came away feeling ripped off.
Sportives are here to stay, and like most people have said, if you don't wanna pay the rate, don't go.
Compared to the concert ticket rip-offs that are currently going on with acts and Ticketmaster gouging as much as they can, then sportives are cheap. Of course a spectacular location/route and closed roads always helps which why such things as the Etape caledonia will sell outM.Rushton0 -
zoomcp wrote:RICHYBOY;
nobody's having a go here at the charity events so that's not really fair to bring into the argument. Saying "if you don't like it don't do it" again and again is not really a discussion is it?
There have been some interesting replies here ranging from the very reasonable small return for 3 days hard graft (and we all know there's an awful lot more time required beforehand) to large scal events where all the money seems to go on expenses
keep the replies coming
I've just stated where most of the money goes on the vast majority....so its very fair to bring into the arguement.
The FWC,EdDs,Spud Riley, White Rose,DLMC, Ryedale Rumble, Drumlanrig Castle and on and on etc...these are some of the biggest and most well known so they are a huge part of the arguement.....I feel you don't want to talk about the good things that come out of sportives....
Lets maybe have a discussion why other Cycling events in the UK do not contribute all there takings to well worthy causes?
Why is 'if you don't like = don't do it" a problem?....lets have a discussion about what?....what are you talking about?...I cannot see the logic in being angry about an entry fee and then paying for it anyway?....I certainly wouldn't.
Zoomcp...I know you are an Audax Organiser which makes me very dubious of your motive for continually hampering on about this same issue....but one question?....please let us all know how many sportives you have ridden and why you have issues with an entry fee?....0 -
I meant that nobody here begrudges the thousands of pounds that are donated to charity from sportives; that's an excellent benefit of such events.
OK your position is " don't like it don't do it" but that's not really a constructive part of the debate, it's a bit like the response of the record industry when CD's came out and people complained about the price hike; some of us here were trying to work out why some events seem to cost a lot and we've had very good answers to those questions.
I'm actually pro sportives (anything that gets people out on bikes) I just wanted some open discussion about where the money goes and in the main we have had it; and yes I have done 2 UK sportives; the Ride of the Falling Leaves and the Tour de France sportive; both thoroughly enjoyed both of them the former was excellent value at £15 including food throughout and also donated to charity.
The latter was fantastic because it was like the British Etape with all the atmosphere from the places it went through who were genuinely pleased to see us, but the entry fee was a bit high and I wouldn't do it again unless it happened to be the week before Le Tour. I would do more sportives but as I'm spoilt for choice with Audaxes (and can just make up my own if need be) I don't see much point at the moment; I actually enter very few below 200km and mainly only do the shorter ones if they are hilly (ie more than 1500m climbing)
I've done 3 French Spotives am doing another in Sweden this year and they really are streets ahead of what the UK can offer at the moment0 -
zoomcp wrote:I meant that nobody here begrudges the thousands of pounds that are donated to charity from sportives; that's an excellent benefit of such events.
OK your position is " don't like it don't do it" but that's not really a constructive part of the debate, it's a bit like the response of the record industry when CD's came out and people complained about the price hike; some of us here were trying to work out why some events seem to cost a lot and we've had very good answers to those questions.
I'm actually pro sportives (anything that gets people out on bikes) I just wanted some open discussion about where the money goes and in the main we have had it; and yes I have done 2 UK sportives; the Ride of the Falling Leaves and the Tour de France sportive; both thoroughly enjoyed both of them the former was excellent value at £15 including food throughout and also donated to charity.
The latter was fantastic because it was like the British Etape with all the atmosphere from the places it went through who were genuinely pleased to see us, but the entry fee was a bit high and I wouldn't do it again unless it happened to be the week before Le Tour. I would do more sportives but as I'm spoilt for choice with Audaxes (and can just make up my own if need be) I don't see much point at the moment; I actually enter very few below 200km and mainly only do the shorter ones if they are hilly (ie more than 1500m climbing)
I've done 3 French Spotives am doing another in Sweden this year and they really are streets ahead of what the UK can offer at the moment
Ok, here the last I'm gonna get involved with this thread...
This is not the first time I've had this conversation with you...and in my last talk you let everyone know very clearly that you thought running a Sportive for profit was a pretty damning thing to do....and this is what I think this thread is really all about....the guys who do it for the money and not for charity or other cycling institutions....
So on one hand we have the majority which do it for good causes...the FWC being the most famous UK sportive...a very pricey £40...only 2 feeds....still, you get to ride a 'legend' and you know your moneys going to a fantastic cause...thats fine.
On the other hand we have organisers doing it for unkown reasons?...but like I say why should they confess to where the money goes?...if they provide a great experience then does it matter?...as long as I think it is worth the cost then I wont complaan....in fact I'll applaud them for giving me another great memory...
Then (if we have another hand)....we have the lads running an event from £8 - £15....no questions needing asked here as very little profit can be foreseen so we associate these guys with the 'pure love' of the sport....
I will ride all 3 different types (and have did), If I think any can be improved or I feel it has been too costly or badly organised then I will contact the organiser directly with constructive critism.
Continental Sportives v;s UK Sportives....I personally have never rideen a big Continental Sportive so cant really offer an opinion....however I know many cycling friends who have and many of them reckon some UK sportives are way better organised?....maybe thats another thread?
Nuf Said.0 -
Rip off Britain.0
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't think they are good value for money then don't enter..............it really is that simple! :shock:0 -
milleboy wrote:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't think they are good value for money then don't enter..............it really is that simple! :shock:
Thats why I paid £15 to do the Lakeland loop but refuse to pay £40 for the Fred Whitton!! It's on my doorstep and the entery fee is a joke.
I think £25 the most I would even consider paying, to ride open roads. Not having a go just adding my two pence worth.
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But that's the point isn't it......
They are a product you buy or don't buy! Saying they are a rip off etc (not you Pinarellodude btw) is pointless. If they fill up then they arn't too much money!
I'm Cumbrian based too BTW.0 -
pinarellodude wrote:milleboy wrote:aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you don't think they are good value for money then don't enter..............it really is that simple! :shock:
Thats why I paid £15 to do the Lakeland loop but refuse to pay £40 for the Fred Whitton!! It's on my doorstep and the entery fee is a joke.
I think £25 the most I would even consider paying, to ride open roads. Not having a go just adding my two pence worth.
All the proceeds from the Fred Whitton go to charity. As has been said, you can choose to enter or not!0 -
RICHYBOYcp wrote:zoomcp wrote:I meant that nobody here begrudges the
Continental Sportives v;s UK Sportives....I personally have never rideen a big Continental Sportive so cant really offer an opinion....however I know many cycling friends who have and many of them reckon some UK sportives are way better organised?....maybe thats another thread?
Nuf Said.
bit academic replying to you as you've left this thread but are you really suggesting that UK sportives are better organised than Continental ones like L'Ardechoise and La Marmotte where the entire region and the local police gets involved? get real
I'm going back to discussions with Audax riders and organisers; a lot more civil.0 -
zoomcp wrote:I'm going back to discussions with Audax riders and organisers; a lot more civil.
Good old YACF - probably the best board around
. Entertaining, cerebral, informative, down to earth and engaging. 0 -
Philip Whiteman wrote:
Good old YACF - probably the best board aroundzoomcp wrote:I'm going back to discussions with Audax riders and organisers; a lot more civil. . Entertaining, cerebral, informative, down to earth and engaging.
there's a few on here as well0 -
I admire you for having been prepared to organise a sportive, and also for publishing your costs and profit, however I don’t really agree that the profit was fair, even though one can’t really complain much about the entry fee.pprince wrote:Profit for me = £425.58 for approx 3 days hard work (in total), which I thought was fair
By your figures, it was almost 30% but to my mind, although very understandable and a nice gesture, the £240 spent on the helpers was also part of the profit, thus it was more like 45%.
Admittedly your time isn’t in the costs, but if the arranging was done in spare time, i.e. it isn’t your livelihood, I don’t feel you can include it.
I also wonder about the morality of the argument you make on behalf of sportive organisers, “as long as people pay why should they charge any less”.
There used to be the idea of what was a legitimate profit and, I know from my work, in construction business negotiations there still is, 10% being normally the highest acceptable.0 -
I donate to three charities each year, and I determine what amount to give to which charities. When a sports event fixes an entry fee based on what profit they want to give to a particular charity of their choice, I feel I’m being in a sense coerced.RICHYBOYcp wrote:Where does the profit go to?....Depends...but here's a few examples...
Macmillan Nurses, Marie Curie, Youth Cycling, Dave Rayner Fund, Tearfund Charity, Adult Leukemia Center, Child Hospice....other Hospices....and many more....
Wanna have a gripe at any of the above profiteers?....I dare ye!0 -
What I don’t understand about the whole sportive business is why more cycling clubs don’t take the initiative and organise sportives.
It’s not much of a step between organising a reliability ride and organising a sportive along UK lines (true cyclosportives with massed starts, as on the Continent, are a different matter).
All the FFCT randonnees in France and all the BDR RTFs in Germany are organised by cycling clubs, and except for the timing aspect, they are more or less the same as UK sportives. Or even superior in some ancillary aspects which don’t appear to be standard in the UK – you can always just enter on the day at the start, 3-5 different routes/distances are always offered, in France free food at the finish is often provided, not just at the feeding stations underway, and in Germany, hot showers are always provided.
In both countries, there are about 700-1000 such events per year.
The French and German cycling clubs rely on volunteers (including for some food - most cake is baked and donated by club members) and they don’t aim to make a big profit, rather their aims are roughly, and in this order, to promote cycling by providing an event for cyclists, to publicise their club, to cover their costs, to make a bit of spare cash for the club.
Because their main aim isn’t to make money, the entry fees aren’t anything like what UK sportives charge.
Typical would be 3 Euros for riders registered with the FFCT or the BDR (membership is about 60 Euro per year and brings other advantages) and 5 Euros for non-registered riders (the extra 2 Euro to cover insurance during the event; registered riders have insurance as part of their FFCT/BDR membership).
Okay, these continental rides don’t have timing, and timing is clearly important to many people in the UK. But this isn’t at all difficult to arrange, and the associated effort and costs are small, as anyone who has ever been involved in timed events, even 10k running races, will know.0 -
Some of the posts on here amaze me. If you don't want to pay for sportives, don't.
I love informal group rides on a Sunday, but I also love sportives. If I buy a service from someone, I don't begrudge the supplier making a profit.
If you want something for nothing, go and do an informal ride. I would suggest that there is a problem though, because several people have made profits from manufacturing and selling your bike and other equipment. Don't stop at a cafe en route, because the staff are being paid, and the evil capitalists that run the establishment have profit margins.
There is a substantial financial risk involved in setting up a large sportive, with a lot of fixed costs. I can't imagine many people being prepared to take those risks, without building in some reasonable margins.
I'm a Yorkshireman, and even I don't mind paying!0 -
knedlicky wrote:What I don’t understand about the whole sportive business is why more cycling clubs don’t take the initiative and organise sportives.
It’s not much of a step between organising a reliability ride and organising a sportive along UK lines (true cyclosportives with massed starts, as on the Continent, are a different matter).
This is an interesting point that you raise, especially as some of the best sportives I have ridden on have been organised by clubs. Eg, Rockingham Forest Wheeler's Rocko Roller and Border Wheeler's Cumberland Challenge. It would be great to see more club sportives as you suggest.
Here is the 'but'. It is far removed from a Reliability Trial which can be organised on the back of a fag packet.
My Club has considered the option of a sportive and would love to deliver an event to the highest standard. However, we have plenty of activities in our portfolio that are successful but require resources in terms of money and people of the ground, the latter being the most precious. Activities include a road race, one major TT on the calendar, numerous other TTs, GO-RIDE, two major large scale and highly successful audaxes. In addition to the external activities, club members are also involved in organising internal activities such as club runs, training, etc etc. To add a sportive to this portfolio would be too much to ask. I guess that this is the same situation for many other clubs - even the very large ones. We could of course transition some of these activities into a sportive but if it 'ain't broke, don't fix it'.
So I suspect that the answer to your question is, many clubs are volunteer based and are already too stretched to deliver extra events such as sportives - which do require considerable resources if delivered properly. That is why the sportive market is not dominated by club organised events, sadly.
The thought of a Beacon Sportive appeals to me but we have to be realistic in our ambition. At the end of the day, I would prefer to ride the events rather than having to loose even more hair with the worry of organising one (and I have not got much more to loose
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And just to get some free advertising in again, you are always welcome to join our Cotswold Sportive on 21st June (see below). You cannot blaim me for trying
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knedlicky wrote:
I donate to three charities each year, and I determine what amount to give to which charities. When a sports event fixes an entry fee based on what profit they want to give to a particular charity of their choice, I feel I’m being in a sense coerced.RICHYBOYcp wrote:Where does the profit go to?....Depends...but here's a few examples...
Macmillan Nurses, Marie Curie, Youth Cycling, Dave Rayner Fund, Tearfund Charity, Adult Leukemia Center, Child Hospice....other Hospices....and many more....
Wanna have a gripe at any of the above profiteers?....I dare ye!
Well it's not a definition of 'coerced' that I'm familiar with then, since you're totally free to enter or not enter any sportive you like; it's not as if organisers are 'chuggers' that ask you to enter and then lay the guilt trip on you if you don't. The only instance I can think of where somebody making a profit out of a sportive would be wrong/immoral/whatever would be if they said all profits were going to charity but then still trousered a bit for themselves.
I think somebody else made a similar point above: does anyone complain about bike shops/manufacturers/tour operators/coaches making a profit? What's the profit margin on a pair of Assos shorts - I bet it's far more than the 10% a previous poster hinted would be 'acceptable' for sportive organisers, but will anyone be vilifying Assos for that? Of course not; either you think they're nevertheless worth it and buy 'em, or you think they're not and you don't.
A few posters have said that just saying 'if you don't like the price then don't do it' doesn't add much to the debate, but since we're not talking about the provision of life's necessities here, but rather the provision of a pure leisure activity, I for one can't see that there's much more to it than that.0 -
knedlicky wrote:
I admire you for having been prepared to organise a sportive, and also for publishing your costs and profit, however I don’t really agree that the profit was fair, even though one can’t really complain much about the entry fee.pprince wrote:Profit for me = £425.58 for approx 3 days hard work (in total), which I thought was fair
By your figures, it was almost 30% but to my mind, although very understandable and a nice gesture, the £240 spent on the helpers was also part of the profit, thus it was more like 45%.
Admittedly your time isn’t in the costs, but if the arranging was done in spare time, i.e. it isn’t your livelihood, I don’t feel you can include it.
I also wonder about the morality of the argument you make on behalf of sportive organisers, “as long as people pay why should they charge any less”.
There used to be the idea of what was a legitimate profit and, I know from my work, in construction business negotiations there still is, 10% being normally the highest acceptable.
Fair enough, your entitled to your opinion and I respect that but the £240 for my helpers wasn't profit, it was a legitimate cost I'd budgeted for from the outset and would always be the case. If I can't take them out I'll pay them, simple.
If you think £425 profit is excessive, perhaps you should do the maths for some other sportives and form an opinion on them too.
As for the profit, don't think I've just pocketed it for the work. I'm planning other sportives and it'll be re-invested into those in some guise too.
And as for charity - I'm a member of the Royal British Legion, I spent a couple of years being an IT volunteer for Age Concern but still remain on their traders register, I'm a supporter of the Air Ambulance and I was a member of Amnesty International. Also I've given up virtually every Sat morning to coach young kids on bikes since last Sept too.
So I do my bit for charity and the community - I don't need to do it via a sportive - in the long run I can give more that way.
Paulhttp://www.cultracing.com
http://www.cultcarbon.com
http://www.madmarchharesportive.co.uk
http://www.facebook.com/madmarchharesportive0 -
If I volunteered to help do something and then was paid, as you suggest you would have done with your helpers if you hadn't taken them for a meal, I’d actually feel insulted. It annuls my gesture to help. And I wouldn’t feel much less so if treated to a meal out.pprince wrote:Fair enough, your entitled to your opinion and I respect that but the £240 for my helpers wasn't profit, it was a legitimate cost I'd budgeted for from the outset and would always be the case. If I can't take them out I'll pay them, simple.
If you think £425 profit is excessive, perhaps you should do the maths for some other sportives and form an opinion on them too.
As for the profit, don't think I've just pocketed it for the work. I'm planning other sportives and it'll be re-invested into those in some guise too.
And as for charity - I'm a member of the Royal British Legion, I spent a couple of years being an IT volunteer for Age Concern but still remain on their traders register, I'm a supporter of the Air Ambulance and I was a member of Amnesty International. Also I've given up virtually every Sat morning to coach young kids on bikes since last Sept too.
So I do my bit for charity and the community - I don't need to do it via a sportive - in the long run I can give more that way.
Paul
A pint would be more than enough (although I might accept that! ).
I’m sure you are correct that some other sportives are less scrupulous than you in the way they budget, and that was the main question brought up by this thread. I wonder how some can even halfway justify their entry fee.
(That other businesses might equally have high profit margins, as nasahapley has said, doesn't make it right)
I’m glad to hear some of the money will be re-invested into sportives, you hadn’t suggested that in your breakdown.
And well done for your charitable work. Perhaps I should have also pointed out, I’ve done voluntary work for the Alzheimer Society, and still am doing work to help those with MS.0 -
Your club seems pretty active so maybe to add an extra event might be too much, as you say.Philip Whiteman wrote:This is an interesting point that you raise, especially as some of the best sportives I have ridden on have been organised by clubs. Eg, Rockingham Forest Wheeler's Rocko Roller and Border Wheeler's Cumberland Challenge. It would be great to see more club sportives as you suggest. .
You write “many clubs are volunteer based” but isn’t it that all clubs are volunteer based? And this leads to ‘people on the ground’ being often the main problem. But not unsurmountable.
One club, with which I had dealings, only had about 5 active members* but managed each year to organize 2 regional TTs, 2 national TTs, a road randonnee and a road audax-type event , as well as a mountain-bike randonnee and a mountain-bike audax-type event. To solve the ‘people’ problem, good contacts were kept with other cycling clubs in the area, maybe a radius of 20-25 miles, and each helped the other out when an event was to take place.
*there were a number of members who only joined to acquire a licence, and another number who only joined because they felt a local cycling club was worth supporting as a local sport and social facility, not because they were keen cyclists or wanted to join in activities.0 -
knedlicky wrote:If I volunteered to help do something and then was paid, as you suggest you would have done with your helpers if you hadn't taken them for a meal, I’d actually feel insulted. It annuls my gesture to help. And I wouldn’t feel much less so if treated to a meal out.
A pint would be more than enough (although I might accept that! ).
don't detract from the power of cold hard cash!
you've misunderstood me thats all, paying was a last resort option if someone couldn't make the thank you meal - like the '..well have a beer on me' gesture we all do at some point to say thank if someone won't accept something
we're all mates anyway (which made the day a great laugh btw), so they know the score - far more informal behind the scenes than it appears perhapshttp://www.cultracing.com
http://www.cultcarbon.com
http://www.madmarchharesportive.co.uk
http://www.facebook.com/madmarchharesportive0
