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Fuelling...

redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
I've suffered a lot recently by bonking, and I've normally put that down to not eating early enough, but I really think that I'm not taking enough to start with...

We do normally have a cafe stop but I don't think that makes up for the lack of other stuff I take with me....

I probably only had 600 Calories with me today in my pockets (not including the cafe stop), for a hilly 65miler at a decent pace.

How much would you take with you?
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  • BeaconRuthBeaconRuth Posts: 2,086
    edited February 2009
    70 miles today without a cafe stop:

    1 banana
    2 jaffa cakes
    5 jelly babies
    Just water to drink

    If it had been another 5 miles I would have needed more.

    Ruth

    ps. I'm not advising anyone to ride on so little. I can't believe it's so little myself when I write it down. But I had more in my pockets and would have eaten more if I felt the need. The most important thing to remember about fuelling is that everyone is different. Find what works for you and don't assume you should/shouldn't do something because of what someone else does.
    pps. I'm not very big either, about 56kg.
  • nmcgannnmcgann Posts: 1,780
    I've suffered a lot recently by bonking, and I've normally put that down to not eating early enough, but I really think that I'm not taking enough to start with...

    We do normally have a cafe stop but I don't think that makes up for the lack of other stuff I take with me....

    I probably only had 600 Calories with me today in my pockets (not including the cafe stop), for a hilly 65miler at a decent pace.

    How much would you take with you?

    About the same for endurance rides, but it depends what you mean by "decent pace". If that was more like tempo pace it wouldn't be enough.

    Neil
    --
    "Because the cycling is pain. The cycling is soul crushing pain."
  • liversedgeliversedge Posts: 1,002
    2 bottles of PSP22 and a fuesli bar for100k and 2,000m of climbing in 4hrs at endurance/tempo going to threshold on the climbs.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • What are the 600 calories made up from? How frequently are you consuming these calories?

    I'd usually look to have a 750ml bottle of something like Winter Training Fuel from Allsports per hour of the ride. Start sipping 10 minutes into the ride. It has a nice balance of cho and protein, and has a tag line that "it guarantees you won't bonk".

    Cafe stop I always like a large espresso.

    Cheers,

    John.
  • whyamiherewhyamihere Posts: 7,336
    Today, I was stupid. 100km on 800ml peach squash, 500ml water and a banana, on a route with about 3000ft of climbing.

    Didn't quite bonk, but I came closer than I've let myself get in years. I had made myself some jam sandwiches to take (brown bread for carbs, jam for instant energy kick, lovely) but forgot to grab them, when I was flagging and really wanted them I was 15 miles from home...
  • pbracingpbracing Posts: 231
    liversedge wrote:
    2 bottles of PSP22 and a fuesli bar for100k and 2,000m of climbing in 4hrs at endurance/tempo going to threshold on the climbs.

    How big were your bottles? How heavy are you? Weren't you starving?

    For a rolling 55miles (3hrs15m) I had 750ml of psp22, 500ml of water, and a 4 pack of Tunnocks wafers :) It's the best I could find after 5 mins browsing in the corner shop. I'd run out of bread and bananas :roll:
    That was zone 2, and pushing hard last 10 miles. I'm 85kg.
    I really struggle to eat and drink early enough in the ride.
    Why not? My bikes.
    Summer & dry days
    http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp47 ... /Trek1.jpg

    Wet winter days & going the shops runaround
    http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp47 ... rello1.jpg
  • liversedgeliversedge Posts: 1,002
    pbracing wrote:
    liversedge wrote:
    2 bottles of PSP22 and a fuesli bar for100k and 2,000m of climbing in 4hrs at endurance/tempo going to threshold on the climbs.

    How big were your bottles? How heavy are you? Weren't you starving?

    For a rolling 55miles I had 750ml of psp22, 500ml of water, and a 4 pack of Tunnocks wafers :) It's the best I could find after 5 mins browsing in the corner shop. I'd run out of bread and bananas :roll:
    That was zone 2, and pushing hard last 10 miles. I'm 85kg.
    I really struggle to eat and drink early enough in the ride.
    750ml, but its the concentration that counts - I had 100g in each bottle. I only take fuel for rides > 2 hrs generally. I had gels etc in my pockets but didn't feel that I needed them. PSP22 is pretty good stuff.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • Reddragon
    On the route you did today in the past I would have taken 2 750ml bottles of orange squash, 2 banana's 4 poridge cereal bars, plus I would have stopped and got a bottle of lucazade sport as well. Also bowl of poridge and nearly a pint of fluid before I set off. However I have just started using High5 4:1 endurance drink. It does'nt half make a difference. Last week did over 70 miles and it was quite hilly. Only went through just over 1 750ml bottle, plus 2 banana's and 2 poridge cereal bars, brought 2 bars home. The High5 drink also doubles up as a recovery drink, so finished the second bottle off when I got home and this ride was with raceheads.
  • 100km on south downs this morning with 2 bottles of water and 2 mule bars. Stopped for a black coffee + 4 sugars at half way.

    Normally pop zym into the water but I was in a faff induced rush to get out and forgot.
  • I did a 50 mile course on my turbo trainer today and the calorie counter showed i'd used 1450 calories. I'm not sure how accurate it is but i was working pretty hard. I consumed 2 litres of water and a sesame seed bar (approx 150 calories) and was feeling really tired on the last climb but i did have a good breakfast.

    Obviously the harder you work the more calories you will burn, so consuming 600 for a hilly 65m at decent pace sounds low especially if you hadn't eaten much before.

    I'm not sure how many calories you can preload with - maybe it varies individually?
  • alp777alp777 Posts: 211
    You should be looking to consume around 1g of carbohydrate per Kg of body weight per hr.

    I am 73kg, so on a two hr endurance ride i will consume about 150g of carbs which is two 750ml bottles of psp22 with 10% mix in each.
  • liversedgeliversedge Posts: 1,002
    with glycogen stored in the muscles and liver and good blood plasma levels as well asa a bit of fat (which everyone has plenty of) and something in your stomach you won't need anything for a two (or even three) hour ride - unless you are really hammering it at L4 or higher.

    Or in other words, fuelling prior to and re-fuelling after the ride is as important as fuelling during the ride.

    all IMHO of course :lol:
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • alp777alp777 Posts: 211
    liversedge wrote:
    with glycogen stored in the muscles and liver and good blood plasma levels as well asa a bit of fat (which everyone has plenty of) and something in your stomach you won't need anything for a two (or even three) hour ride - unless you are really hammering it at L4 or higher.

    Or in other words, fuelling prior to and re-fuelling after the ride is as important as fuelling during the ride.

    all IMHO of course :lol:

    I disagree.....anything over an 1hr to 90mins at around 75-80% of MHRate you need to take on board carbs. This is even more important if you are riding/training regularly. You don't want to be depleting your glycogen store you need to be keeping it topped up.
  • pbracingpbracing Posts: 231
    liversedge wrote:
    with glycogen stored in the muscles and liver and good blood plasma levels as well asa a bit of fat (which everyone has plenty of) and something in your stomach you won't need anything for a two (or even three) hour ride - unless you are really hammering it at L4 or higher.

    Or in other words, fuelling prior to and re-fuelling after the ride is as important as fuelling during the ride.

    all IMHO of course :lol:

    Can you not feel your energy levels slipping away if you don't take stuff in during a ride?
    Up to 1hr45 I don't take anything but water, and hope to burn some fat, but anything more I need nourishment.

    Last week, because I was always hungry through the day (off the bike), I started to count my calorie intake. Should be around 2,700, was around 1,900! I don't sit down all day either. Oops. :)
    Why not? My bikes.
    Summer & dry days
    http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp47 ... /Trek1.jpg

    Wet winter days & going the shops runaround
    http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp47 ... rello1.jpg
  • liversedgeliversedge Posts: 1,002
    pbracing wrote:
    liversedge wrote:
    with glycogen stored in the muscles and liver and good blood plasma levels as well asa a bit of fat (which everyone has plenty of) and something in your stomach you won't need anything for a two (or even three) hour ride - unless you are really hammering it at L4 or higher.

    Or in other words, fuelling prior to and re-fuelling after the ride is as important as fuelling during the ride.

    all IMHO of course :lol:

    Can you not feel your energy levels slipping away if you don't take stuff in during a ride?
    Up to 1hr45 I don't take anything but water, and hope to burn some fat, but anything more I need nourishment.

    Last week, because I was always hungry through the day (off the bike), I started to count my calorie intake. Should be around 2,700, was around 1,900! I don't sit down all day either. Oops. :)

    I ride my hilly commute in 1:45 on an empty stomach and am fine. 2 hrs of hills I'm fine. 3hrs of hills and no food and I'm toast. I reckon as lng as you eat well you've got enough in your legs and liver for a 2hr ride. thats my experience anyway.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Interesting that people seem to have a time/food threshold where they can go say 2hrs without food but any longer and it becomes a big problem.

    I'm good for up to about 2.5hrs without food but any longer and I get very hungry.

    I suppose it's a matter of knowing where your limits are and then adjust accordingly.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,806
    It's a matter of experience and the individual, I honestly believe that.

    On a weekend, when my time's my own I'll have a bowl of two weetabix,dried fruit, banana,mandarin segments, grapes and honey+ two slices of granary toast and nutella for breakfast.

    I'll take 1ltr of nuun and various food bars for the ride if it's to be above 30miles, I'l take nuun tablets to place in water purchased, also.

    The fact is, nutrition on rides is such an individual thing, depending on what is hoped to be achieved from the particular ride a catch all answer too a general question is all that can be hoped for.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • thiscocksthiscocks Posts: 603
    for 50-70miles I normaly just have a GO bar, and maybe a flapjack/banana to eat, 750bottle of water and 500bottle of water enargy powder mix.

    I haven't bonked for ages.
  • redddraggonredddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Hmm, most of you seem to be consuming the same or less than me. I'm definitely bonking though........

    ....could it just be that I don't eat right before (night before)? I normally have only have weetabix or cornflakes :?

    The weird thing is that non of my habits have changed since the summer, and I never bonked during the summer - now I seem to be doing it on a lot of my rides....... :?
    I like bikes...

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  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    The weird thing is that non of my habits have changed since the summer, and I never bonked during the summer - now I seem to be doing it on a lot of my rides....... :?

    are you riding at a higher pace than previously..? that might account for it..

    I did a hilly 50 sportive yesterday (first one this year) and struggled a bit with the pace. Although riding that kind of distance & terrain is never usually a problem, the 1-2mph higher average speed started to really hurt after about half-way...
  • chrisw12chrisw12 Posts: 1,246
    Red. if your concerned about it could you perhaps train yourself to um...eat less?

    I never bonk and as I said I don't eat that much while riding. I put this down to three things.

    1) I do my am commute (1hr) on an empty stomach, then wont have the opportunity to eat for another 3hours.

    2) If I do long rides under my eating threshold time, I wont take any food. So say my eating threshold is about 3 hours, if I'm doing rides of say under 2hrs I'll purposefully not eat anything.

    3) I have a little bit of extra fat that I keep in reserve. :wink:

    Obviously if I increase my intensity a lot then I might eat more, but on the whole I try to eat as little as possible and just get used to it.

    Saying that, this is probably the worst nutritional advice, as I'm certainly no expert.

    Anyway, I'm off to have a burger. :roll:
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    For fat burning rides I do up to 60 miles on one bottle 750ml energy drink and take a gel as reserve.
    Did hard 85 miles on weekend with hard group and used two 750 ml bottles, one was squash and one energy drink, and ate two bananas.Again took gel as reserve.
  • I used High5 4:1 for the first time the other day for a 45-mile ride with hill reps... :shock: I've never felt so good, genuinely, I was actually trying really hard, big ringing into a headwind, to explode my legs with 15 miles to go, but it was fine, just tired...

    For a 50 miler, I will usually take a 750ml with 4:1, a 500ml with salted water, 4 slices of malt loaf cut (and buttered, bloody gorgeous) at home, and maybe a Powerbar for emergency. Often it's the psychological help of knowing you will be fine for food...
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    I can't believe how little you lot take out with you! :shock:

    I take out loads!

    For example, for a 4 hour ride (of 75% high intensity riding), I take out (minimum!):

    2 Flapjacks
    500g bag of dried apricots
    Jersey pocket full of pre-unwrapped non-sticky sweets - Mints/Love Hearts/Liquorice Allsorts/Jelly Beans/etc...
    Banana Slices Covered in melted chocolate (makes the bananas pocket-friendly and easily accessible)
    2 Bread Rolls with loads of Honey
    1 Bottle of isotonic water/energy drink
    1 Bottle of fruit smoothie
    1 Flask of Herbal Tea (with honey/lemon juice mixed in) during winter
    These are great (and take up no space in your pockets!): http://www.kettlevalley.net/realfruit.htm

    Stopped off for a 12" pizza once too, and was still hungry!

    I've been 74kg day in day out for 8 months, so I reckon I have the balance of eating and riding spot on.

    Never bonked. Ever. :D
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,587
    edited March 2009
    Bhima wrote:
    I can't believe how little you lot take out with you! :shock:

    I take out loads!

    For example, for a 4 hour ride (of 75% high intensity riding), I take out (minimum!):

    2 Flapjacks
    500g bag of dried apricots
    Jersey pocket full of pre-unwrapped non-sticky sweets - Mints/Love Hearts/Liquorice Allsorts/Jelly Beans/etc...
    Banana Slices Covered in melted chocolate (makes the bananas pocket-friendly and easily accessible)
    2 Bread Rolls with loads of Honey
    1 Bottle of isotonic water/energy drink
    1 Bottle of fruit smoothie
    1 Flask of Herbal Tea (with honey/lemon juice mixed in) during winter
    These are great (and take up no space in your pockets!): http://www.kettlevalley.net/realfruit.htm

    Stopped off for a 12" pizza once too, and was still hungry!

    I've been 74kg day in day out for 8 months, so I reckon I have the balance of eating and riding spot on.

    Never bonked. Ever. :D

    seriously - where do you put all of that stuff..? Assuming you carry a few other items like tools, tubes, money, phone, etc, do you ride with panniers or a backpack - or is this another of your 'comedy' posts..?
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    At the weekend I did the Surrey Rumble, 78 miles, and I had 750ml pf PSP22, and 750ml of Go, I ate one Go bar, 1 Fig roll, 1 gel, and 1 Smart gel, and I felt pretty good.

    On a similar length club run, I would have just the drink, plus a sausage butty at the cafe stop.

    Just out of interest, I have seen somewhere, that the body burns the most fat when it is burning quite a few carbs as well, might be a lower percentage of overall energy source, but certainly more than lower paced effort where fat is a higher percentage of energy source.

    If you are riding hard, you need to fuel your body appropiately
  • nasahapleynasahapley Posts: 717
    My general rules when deciding how much to take on a ride, arrived at after extensive research (i.e. bonking many times on routes of varying length):

    Up to 1.5 hours: nowt

    Up to 2.5 hours: gel/banana which probably won't get eaten

    Up to 4 hours: plan to eat every hour (bananas do the trick), plus a small pack of jelly sweets just in case

    Much over 4 hours: still plan to eat roughly every hour but take a few extras too, including savoury stuff.

    I'd usually eat something reasonably substantial before doing anything over a couple of hours, too. God knows how some of you can knock out 70 odd miles on two fruit bars though!
  • SBezzaSBezza Posts: 2,173
    I admit, I struggle to eat when going fairly hard, hence why I always have either PSP22 or Go in my bottles. I generally get some food down me at stops, but probably not enough ideally, yet I have never bonked.

    I always eat a decent breakfast before going on a ride as well though.
  • BhimaBhima Posts: 2,145
    softlad wrote:
    seriously - where do you put all of that stuff..?
    Easy!

    Money, Tools, Spare Tubes, Phone, Keys - In a wallet strapped under my saddle.
    Bottles/Flask - Bottle Holders

    All Sweets/Banana Pieces - Pocket #1 in my jersey
    Dried Fruit and Flapjacks - Pocket # 2 in my jersey
    If I take out some bread rolls or sandwiches - Pocket #3 in my Jersey.

    Sometimes if I don't take out sandwiches, I have that pocket free. There's a 4th smaller pocket in the jersey too if I need more space. It's really not that difficult to take out all this!
  • Jeff JonesJeff Jones Posts: 1,865 Editor
    edited March 2009
    I think a lot of people (me included) underestimate the importance of water on long rides, especially in winter. Getting dehydrated makes you feel just as bad as hunger flat. After all, water is an essential component of the conversion of fat and carbs to energy.

    I don't recommend this but I've been doing hard 4-5 hour rides (75% of max HR) on porridge, a cuppa and a glass of water for brekky, and a litre and a half of water and two Snickers bars during the ride. If I do back to back rides like this on the weekend, I've been noticing the last hour on Sunday is harder than it should be.

    This changes as fitness improves of course: at the start of the year I was doing back to back 3 hr rides, still suffering in that final hour on the second day but barely drinking anything because it was so cold.

    So I'm making a real effort now to drink more on long rides (electrolyte drinks are good 'cos they make you thirstier than water). Also more water during the day rather than other, less hydrating fluids.

    It may be a coincidence but I've lost a kilo - the first proper one of the year - in the last week without any changes to what I'm eating or to my mileage.
    Jeff Jones

    Product manager, Sports
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