is it bad for a 14 year old boy to be cycling long distances

Tempestas

:roll:

dsmiff

Road races for kids use gear restictions, however cyclo-cross and MTB racing do not, not sure why if the reasons above apply.

Tom Butcher

Tempestas - so what you are actually saying is that low gears work the heart harder and this is good for younger riders as it'll benefit them in the future ?

Firstly I'm not sure that's right - do low gears really work the heart harder ?

But secondly if that is the case then it's not a reason to avoid bigger gears - because you believe bigger gears are actually easier on the heart. You say "The heart is one of the most important muscles to develop, I guess it's the same for mileage, too much may be bad for a developing body." But then you argue that kids should use smaller gears to work the heart harder !

cougie

I think your coach friend has been misinformed.

Surely Chris Hoy will be hitting his MHR in a sprint competition on a big gear ?
I can max out my HR on a tough climb in a low gear too - the gear isnt that important.

When I was a schoolie - I thought the idea was that we werent to push big gears and damage ourselves - spinning smaller gears is better.

Look at the pros - they spin easily about 90rpm.
Look at someone just starting out - they tend to plod along at 60rpm.

When I teach spin class I tell people to select a resistance that allows them to pedal at a minimum of 60rpm - struggling with the pedals to turn them over at low revs puts a huge strain on the joints.

Tempestas

:roll:

cougie

I really think you can stress the heart no matter what gear you are in.

Indeed if it was the heart that was the worry - then I'd say that riders should be forced to use big gears - for the youngsters their muscles wont be that developed and their legs would give out before their hearts would.

Sure - they restrict the mileages - thats sensible.
The gear restriction is all about the muscular/ skeletal development- and nothing to do with the heart.

Tempestas

:roll:

cougie

Clearly the heart IS important. But the heart cant tell what gear a rider is in.

You look after the youngsters heart by not letting them race the adult distances.

Tempestas

:roll:

cougie

<bangs head against brick wall>

OK - look here : http://www.triathlon.mb.ca/kos_2008_Pro ... _Rules.pdf

Last page - explains their rationale - no mention of the heart.

Tempestas

:roll:

cougie

And I'm not denying that the heart is a muscle. Nobody could.

You and your mate the "coach" seem to be saying that the gear limits for juveniles are to protect the heart.

I'm saying its to protect their knees more than anything - big gears strain the knees - I doubt they have as much effect on the hips or the thighs or the calves - so thats why they were not mentioned in the explanation of the regulation.

It would be good if the BC site explained their reasons behind the regulations - that would have sorted out the confusion two pages back.

Tempestas

:roll:

Tempestas

:roll:

cougie

Tempestas - even your own link to the US cycling regulations didnt mention the heart. Maybe that is because gears and cadence have no effect on the heart ?

Tom Butcher

8)

cougie

Oh fab - so now you've removed all your claims and make me look like I'm arguing with mr invisible !

I must remember that tactic for the future - for the next time I spout gibberish. :shock:

jimycooper

torin wrote:

jimycooper wrote:

hey torin, are you on the talent team?/??

no im not old enough and i dont think ill get in when i am as i only started last year

if you can do 71 miles averaging 20 mph at 13 i really think you could!

Tempestas

cougie wrote:

Oh fab - so now you've removed all your claims and make me look like I'm arguing with mr invisible !

I must remember that tactic for the future - for the next time I spout gibberish. :shock:

Not at all, it's just a pointless thread that went off topic. I cba to respond to people who cannot comprehend the importance of heart development.

cougie

Oh and there was me thinking you deleted your posts because you dont want anyone to see your mistakes ?

Of course heart development is important - thats why youngsters arent allowed to race adult distances - unless they get special dispensation.

Tempestas

cougie wrote:

Oh and there was me thinking you deleted your posts because you dont want anyone to see your mistakes ?

Of course heart development is important - thats why youngsters arent allowed to race adult distances - unless they get special dispensation.

So why spend the last 10 posts stating it has no effect?

Your previous post made it clear you wanted to argue as you said this, whereas I was having a discussion. Hence why I 'walked' away, I cba to 'discuss' things with people who have made their mind up based on what they already believe to be fact.

cougie

All I've been trying to convince you for the last two pages is that the gearing restrictions for youngsters are there to protect their knees. Not their hearts as you claim.

Their hearts are being looked after by not letting youngsters race full distances. HR doesnt correlate with gear ratio.

Did you see in the comic this week the guy who topped 60 mph at Rollapalooza - he wasnt on a big gear - but you can be sure he maxed his HR out.

Tom Butcher

For those that didn't follow the thread - Tempestas argued rather confusingly that young riders should :
- avoid big gears in case is strains a muscle - and as your heart is a muscle big gears are a possible danger to your heart!
- use small gears because it works your heart harder and that will help develop your heart.

No it didn't make any sense when he wrote it either.

Tempestas

Tom Butcher wrote:

For those that didn't follow the thread - Tempestas argued rather confusingly that young riders should :
- avoid big gears in case is strains a muscle - and as your heart is a muscle big gears are a possible danger to your heart!
- use small gears because it works your heart harder and that will help develop your heart.

No it didn't make any sense when he wrote it either.

Don't talk bollox, all I said was that as the heart is a muscle and still developing lower gears are wise. As per another poster in this thread about heart wall thickening, I removed my posts as I cba to argue with close minded people.

Tom, if you are going to post at least make it accurate

Tom Butcher

:roll:

cougie

naaah you removed the posts cos your argument was a load of rubbish and not even the links you posted backed any of your theory up.

If your arguments were sound - then you'd have been better off leaving them up so someone more expert than me could have backed them up.

Tempestas

I will stick to what I know and avoid posting it in future, I guess people only believe what they already believe to be fact and are not open to learning anything. It truly is sad for people to come onto this forum, share what has been passed on by coaches and be 'bullied' away from it due to people wanting an argument.

I did a bit of reading up on it over the weekend and the condition is called 'left ventricular hypertrophy' and is common in weight training, weight training is lifting big weights, so I guess pushing big gears can be classed as weight training...Please feel free to google it and provide feedback to all the doctors reports that it will show you, I am sure they would be interested in your vast knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left_ventr ... ypertrophy touches on it in the causes section, but it's worth reading the published articles by doctors as they explain it's more common in youngsters whose hearts are still growing.

cougie

I actually have left ventricular hypertrprophy, this was picked up with a heart trace for a job - when I was about 20. It seemed to concern the docs - so they sent the trace to a Cardiac specialist. He asked about my history, and when I said that I'd been cycling since the age of 11 or so - he said that it was fine.

Never really done any weight training - but if you read your own link - again - it does say aerobic exercise - so that would include cycling - See here :

http://content.onlinejacc.org/cgi/content/full/44/1/144

And here : http://bjsm.bmj.com/cgi/reprint/24/4/274.pdf

And here : http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics ... ypertrophy

See the focus on rowers, cyclists and skiiers ?

And this study : http://www.fac.org.ar/scvc/llave/exerci ... ykowsi.htm
seems to show that weightlifters do NOT get LVH.

I think most of us are perfectly open to debate, and at least we have the b*lls to not remove our words when we feel threatened. Would you rather I accepted your theories despite my common sense and logic telling me other wise ? Oh and all the studies too.

I know that cycling grows the heart - all aerobic exercise does.

What it doesnt do is grow it any differently depending on what gear ratios you are using. Thats what I have a problem with you saying. To hear that a coach has been telling you these things I find a bit disturbing, and its only right that they should be challenged - surely ?

Tempestas

Kind of lost for words now, I have provided back up to what I have been told.

It clearly states weight training, heavier weights in particular, which riding in a high gear is comparable to but you go off on a tangent. Surely it's clear that a bigger gear is harder to push, just like lifting a big weight.

But I guess I am wrong and always will be, time to move along

cougie

This is what is says on your last link : While ventricular hypertrophy occurs naturally as a reaction to aerobic exercise and strength training, it is most frequently referred to as a pathological reaction to cardiovascular disease, or high blood pressure

So it does talk about strength training - but not weight training.

And yes - big gears are harder to push - but how many juniors have the leg muscle to push these big gears ? Their legs will give out before their hearts would. I've never cramped my heart - yet......

The heart wont be able to distinguish between a big gear at a lower cadence and a lower gear at a faster cadence. You can easily max out on a lower gear, just the same as you can on a bigger one ?