Puerto-tastic

DavMartinR

off the back wrote:

I think the italians should play this out slowly and get some pay back

If you are innocent then u have nothing to fear. Keep droping hints and pretend you have more info than u do and watch the rats scurry all over the place - Mess with their heads these lads will have a good healthy dip in form when they get preoccupied. Then put out the word that there will be arrests and see who turns up to Milan San Remo !

Sadistic :twisted: But I like it.

kourou

DavMartinR wrote:

Well there is a link where Riis is concerned, Basso and then a trip to Madrid with Frank Shleck to get his training plans from Fuentes.

And the link will may be go some way to getting rid of some of the DS's and not just the riders.

No doubt there are more doctors and chemists,but without evidence and the wall of silence within cycling they are really touched.

We are punishing the riders which is good but the hierarchy always seen to get away with it.

To be fair Manolo Saiz has been well implicated courtesy Puerto, and isn't he one of the five charged with a criminal offence? Of course there is a long way to go and he isn't the only manager/DS.

Re Timoid's list, that could be fun - just off the top of my head I can think of at least one missing off those Riis/Bruyneel lists so (as I think Timoid was indicating) its a good start - who's up for the challenge? And of course there is one who obviously we can't put on the list because 50% of people think he should be there, and 50% don't ;-)

richard wants a baum

DavMartinR wrote:

off the back wrote:

I think the italians should play this out slowly and get some pay back

If you are innocent then u have nothing to fear. Keep droping hints and pretend you have more info than u do and watch the rats scurry all over the place - Mess with their heads these lads will have a good healthy dip in form when they get preoccupied. Then put out the word that there will be arrests and see who turns up to Milan San Remo !

Sadistic :twisted: But I like it.

Which is exactly what there doing with Valv, others may also be starting to wonder when that Skelton is going to be pulled out of there closets. Still would love to see a Footballer or Tennis star get publicly outed but i suppose there Feds take care of that sort of stuff for them.

zippypablo

didn't some GB tennis players fail drugs test a few years ago but got let off as the federation supplied a sports supplement that inadvertently had peds in it?
football, Japp Stam 3 month ban, Edgar Davids 3 month ban, both for steroids. Juventus 1996 Euro cup winning team (doctor carried the can)
Arsene Wenger saying players having medicals to join club had high red blood cell counts.
The list in other sports would prob be a lot bigger if they did proper testing.

andyrac

zippypablo wrote:

didn't some GB tennis players fail drugs test a few years ago but got let off as the federation supplied a sports supplement that inadvertently had peds in it?
football, Japp Stam 3 month ban, Edgar Davids 3 month ban, both for steroids. Juventus 1996 Euro cup winning team (doctor carried the can)
Arsene Wenger saying players having medicals to join club had high red blood cell counts.
The list in other sports would prob be a lot bigger if they did proper testing.

Exactly - so it won't happen. Misguided football/tennis fans say that PEDs can't make you a better player - not understanding it affects stamina/training etc

ninjaslim

Yeah imagine me trying to explain to my wife which team Kourou's 50/50 man is riding for now...

yes love that one, yes really

well they didn't get any money and folded

I really hope he doesn't get caught as it'll be real bad for the sport and I'm starting to think it's not in anyone's interest for them to catch any big names this year.

Should be some good racing though eh!

GroupOfOne MkII

kourou wrote:

Re Timoid's list, that could be fun - just off the top of my head I can think of at least one missing off those Riis/Bruyneel lists so (as I think Timoid was indicating) its a good start - who's up for the challenge?

Think with riders you're probably missing the likes of Gusev, Mondini, Jaksche and Joachim off the top of my head.

And regarding teammates of Bruyneel's, having spent five seasons with ONCE in the mid '90s I would have though there'd be a few more of Manolo Saiz's riders you could add on beyond Zulle. Dufuax and Stephens for a start, and then he was a teammate of Museuuw at Lotto.

And then Riis rode for Gewiss, famed for Dr Michele Ferrari's 'orange juice' comment, and a whole host of dodgy names, many of whom are of course now DS' with major European teams.

But really what do the teammates prove? Other than you can choose your friends but not your teammates. Really all it proves is both rode for some pretty dodgy teams during the '90s, but then again using such and such rode for such and such, alongside x you can link pretty much anyone to anyone. Six degrees of doping separation? Hmm that's probably too easy.

Anyway, slightly more back on topic, do we have any indication of when CONI may announce the other lucky winners in the 'Win a short break in Rome' competition? If indeed they are going to.

flattythehurdler

micron wrote:

And the Giro's so transparent that they refuse to test for CERA - is transparency the new opacity?

flattythehurdler

Martin Van Nostrand wrote:

DavMartinR wrote:

If it does come out that it was Frank from Luxembourg & Fabian from Switzerland. Would there be enough evidence by association to implicate Riis?
.

Implicate Mr 60%?..so what?

Make a list of ex-Bruyneel dopers, it's a lot longer than Riis' list. Pro cycling is so integritous.

Here, Bjarne is admiring a nice glass of Spanish AB-ve:

paulfromhull

In 2005 - Oct/Nov a certain well known footballer in Spain, who was getting to the end of his career (no names but he retired after the World cup final - in which he was sent off for headbutting an opponent) said he needed a month without playing so he could 'get himself back to full fitness'.....

He took a month off, during which time he of course had no tests of any kind - not that there are blood test anyhow in footy) and guess what played better fro several months.....In Spain. (although he was not Spanish9 and then his club threatened to sue L'Equipe when they hinted that Spanish football teams were in Puerto...

The lack of interest from the Spanish (and i live here) is lamentable

edhornby

ever wondered how quickly a certain footballer had his foot heal from a broken metatarsal just in time to make the squad for the world cup ? after david beckhams had taken a full 2 weeks longer to heal - but of course "he's young and the bones heal so much quicker"

and it's always the same BUPA hospital in Manchester that they go in and out of (which has been described by an oncologist mate of mine as 'a hotel with a small amount of clinical ability')

flattythehurdler

I don't think autologous blod makes metatarsals heal quicker.

kourou

ninjaslim wrote:

Yeah imagine me trying to explain to my wife which team Kourou's 50/50 man is riding for now...

yes love that one, yes really

well they didn't get any money and folded

I really hope he doesn't get caught as it'll be real bad for the sport and I'm starting to think it's not in anyone's interest for them to catch any big names this year.

Not sure I get that, but I may be being stupid :-) Your 'not getting caught' is a valid point (though I respectfully don't agree - imo all efforts should continue to be made even if it will never go away completely, to reduce doping to at least a dull roar) and tallies, I think, with who I am thinking of.

However, who didn't get money and folded? Actually I don't understand the wife comment either?

kourou

Ah gotcha - just saw the news on Cinelli folding - you thought I was talking about Jaksche...

Nope - I meant 'he who I'm unwilling to name' for fear of this thread becoming another swamp/blackhole pulling forum-goers into 'that' endless argument ;-)

still not quite sure what you meant about explaining to your wife though?

NicFrance

new date: valverde hearing on thursday

http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme/breves2009/20090217_135808_valverde-entendu-jeudi.html

dave_1

I see Valverde's lawyer is not in his use of words rulling out the possibility it is his clients blood....see velonews...valv piti will try on techinal rules to avoid being busted..

NicFrance

a spanish judge forbids ialian coni the use of the blood samples they received from spain.


http://www.radsport-news.com/sport/sportnews_55034.htm


does that make sense?. i.e.: is he allowed to do this and do the italians really have to care about that?

cougie

I'm not sure the Italians will pay much attention to the Spanish judge...

NicFrance

my spanish is rather poor. but as far as i understand it, his lawyer says: if there is no obligation to show up in rome, than he (valv) schould not go.
and in terms of spanish law he cannot be obliged, as a spanish court said that the italians will not even be allowed to use the blood samples from OP.
so i guess, he wont schow up, but would this not mean the end of his tdf-dreams? i can't barely see him starting in france, as the race passes also through italy.



http://www.adn.es/deportes/20090218/NWS-1188-CONI-Valverde-decidira-declarar-tarde.html

Kléber

Denial, avoidance and lawyers: the standard gambit.

guv001

To not show up is just as good as admitting it in my books....

flattythehurdler

If I was him I wouldn't show up. I find it hard to believe that there is another valv. pit out there.
He needs an LA contaminated/most tested/out to get me/bla bla bla response.

bipedal

Surely he's finished irrespective of what the spanish judiciary say: the cat's out of the bag, CONI pass the evidence to WADA, bye bye Valv.piti

There is something seriously stinking about the Spanish establishment's desperate cover up of the Puerto case

Kléber

The tourniquet tightens: CONI have said this evening that Serrano's claims are "unfounded" and in addition, they have extra, so far undisclosed information on Valverde and others, hinting that he'd better turn up tomorrow or else.