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disgruntledgoat wrote:Not disrespecting Brian's achievements on the bike at all. Have full respect for that. I just think that criticising Kimmage as a doped, bitter loser rather misses the point of his journalism.
I raced in the same era as Kimmage and was not a top level rider. I grovelled through the Giro but i was never involved or never seen any of what Kimmage says in his book. May be different teams had different ethics.0 -
BrianS wrote:disgruntledgoat wrote:Not disrespecting Brian's achievements on the bike at all. Have full respect for that. I just think that criticising Kimmage as a doped, bitter loser rather misses the point of his journalism.
I raced in the same era as Kimmage and was not a top level rider. I grovelled through the Giro but i was never involved or never seen any of what Kimmage says in his book. May be different teams had different ethics.
Well, i bow to your superior knowledge, i'm not going to dispute the story of somebody who was there in the same era.
As Kleber says, well done for wading in."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
I forgot you posted on here Brian.
I think most cycling fans have problems with Floyd and Tyler - for being convicted of cheating, but never admitting it and coming up with bizarre defences. That just sticks in my throat - and the TOC suffers with credibility.
Look at yesterdays winner - he's old school and linked to Puerto - it looked like he was bang to rights when he retired and now he's back again. Why should we think that he won clean ? I want the new generation or at least people without skeletons in their cupboard to do well.
Harmon doesnt sound keen on Rock Racing either - and I'm with hin on this.0 -
Can of worms time: Kimmage talks of more than one team but it was low stuff, caffeine suppositories and cortisone abuse. I'd hope you steered clear of it all but...BrianS wrote:I raced in the same era as Kimmage and was not a top level rider. I grovelled through the Giro but i was never involved or never seen any of what Kimmage says in his book. May be different teams had different ethics.
"Former Motorola team doctor Max Testa did speak to the New York Times about his concerns regarding EPO use during the mid-1990s. Testa, now a sports medicine specialist at the University of California at Davis, explained he had given the team's riders literature about EPO and urged them not to take the drug.
"If you want to use a gun, you had better use a manual, rather than to ask the guy on the street how to use it," he said. "I cannot rule out that someone did it.""
From BikeRadar0 -
cougie wrote:I want the new generation or at least people without skeletons in their cupboard to do well.
Harmon doesnt sound keen on Rock Racing either - and I'm with hin on this.
totally agree on both points.0 -
cougie wrote:Why should we think that he won clean ? I want the new generation or at least people without skeletons in their cupboard to do well.
How do you decide someone doesn't have a skeleton in their cupboard? For example, I don't trust Columbia or Garmin and think both squads are holding that door shut with a couple of chairs.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I think its pretty dodgy to have Puerto implicated riders in your team.
Those were the skeletons I was talking about - I cant think that Columbia and Garmin have many problems that way ? They seem pretty good off the top of my head ?0 -
cougie wrote:I think its pretty dodgy to have Puerto implicated riders in your team.
Those were the skeletons I was talking about - I cant think that Columbia and Garmin have many problems that way ? They seem pretty good off the top of my head ?
VdV, Garmin's main man was on the ONCE, US Postal and CSC squads. Must have picked up a thing or two over the years. Danielson is a Ferrari customer. And the team is owned by two confessed (but repentant) dopers.
Colombia has Freibourg Mick, The Eagle of long island and Ferreti's golden Luxembourger. None convicted of anything, but certainly make me scratch my chin. One of its DS has admitted EPO use another cut his DS teeth at Silence Loto and Quick Step.
Who decides who can be trusted.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0 -
VdV hasnt really done anything too impressive though has he ? Not enough to arouse my suspicions anyway.
The whole history of cycling is that riddled with dopers so that it would be hard to kick out anyone who rode with dodgy teams or had links. I think thats a bit unfair on the individual riders too. Even in the bad old days - there were clean riders.0 -
You don't have to be a champion to be a doper. Were Andreu or Vaughters great champions? Both discussed taking a lot of dope at US Postal. Was Beltran? How about Sinkewitz or Jachske. Good strong riders, but not exactly titans.It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.0
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Its not as odd as say Riis suddenly destroying the field to win the Tour though is it ? Or Pantani rocketing away in the Giro, or Floyd Landis coming back from the dead, or Piepoli hurtling up mountain climbs not even breathing hard.
When you see things like that - you think - hmmmm - thats amazing. In cycling - thats usually cos they're doped sadly..
VdV for me doesnt come into that category. Sure he could be doped, but then again - so could anyone really.0 -
Timoid. wrote:You don't have to be a champion to be a doper. Were Andreu or Vaughters great champions? Both discussed taking a lot of dope at US Postal. Was Beltran? How about Sinkewitz or Jachske. Good strong riders, but not exactly titans.
depends when they started doping...Sinkewitz seemed to have used doping products as a junior...which I suppose means he might have carried on with them or different combos...hard to imagine he will ever win a big classic or grand tour...without doping...his mistake may have been to use it all the way...the top guys likely fire their biggest guns when they can go no further naturally...0 -
Well, to bring the Oirishman back in, Kimmage thinks VdV is clean.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0
