Pantani

135

Comments

  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    Dave_1 wrote:
    seems he got 7.5 million from SCA ...who knows...who really cares

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong
    If you were one of my students, you would get zero marks for submitting wikipedia as a reference!

    A quick look at that page shows numerous blatant untruths, and doubtless if they were to be corrected the fanboys, Armstrong accolytes and so on would very rapidly change them back again...
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    Dave_1 wrote:
    ...he's the master of spin...on the bike and off it
    And as they say 'there's one born every minute', something that ensures that the PR men will always have a job, and Armstrong will never run short of disciples...
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    aurelio wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    seems he got 7.5 million from SCA ...who knows...who really cares

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Armstrong
    If you were one of my students, you would get zero marks for submitting wikipedia as a reference!

    A quick look at that page shows numerous blatant untruths, and doubtless if they were to be corrected the fanboys, Armstrong accolytes and so on would very rapidly change them back again...

    amend it...go on...take the battle onto wikipedia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    aurelio wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Timoid. wrote:
    One was convicted of sporting fraud, one was sued and lost his bonus for 5 tour wins due to evidence of using PEDs
    Timoid, I though LA won his case...
    The case was actually settled out of court.

    SCA argued that they were in their rights to withhold payment given the amount of evidence around showing that Armstrong doped, just as a bookmaker is in their rights to refuse to pay out on a rigged race. However it was ruled that SCA had acted as an insurance company and that all the evidence in the world that Armstrong doped was irrelevant, as all that mattered was that Armstrong was the official winner.

    Apparently this ruling was made very early in the pre-trial hearings but Bob Hamman, the owner of SCA, knew that he was been shafted and carried on with the case, at the personal cost of a couple of million dollars, simply in order to ensure that the information which had been provided to him was not buried forever. (It was this hearing that saw the testimony of people like the Andreu’s reach the public arena, and although Armstrong claimed that they had given testimony becuase they 'hated' him, in reality they had to be subpoenaed to appear).

    By the way, you seem to have forgotten to answer my questions on the thread below...

    http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... 0&start=60

    You cant just admit he won his case can you ? It eats you up to say that instead you gotta put on your usual biased viewpoint..


    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • 3SpeedsRtheonlyBike
    3SpeedsRtheonlyBike Posts: 24
    UCI certified Lance as the winner, that's what it comes down to I think.
  • shockedsoshocked
    shockedsoshocked Posts: 4,021
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    le patron wrote:
    I can do a good realgains impression if I copy and paste from the cutting edge muscle forum. :wink:

    Not that I'm necessarily saying all those facts and figures aren't accurate. They do get to the heart of the issue....what power output is being generated for how long by a rider weighing how much.

    This is essentially what Lemond wanted and if measured against a baseline would go a long way to showing whether performances are unassisted or not.

    Don't think we'll ever get those though.


    Holy hell that forum is scary...

    I know :shock: What chance have you got huh?
    "A cyclist has nothing to lose but his chain"

    PTP Runner Up 2015
  • KKspeeder
    KKspeeder Posts: 111
    The SCA trial revolved around the fact of Texas Contract Law, and that SCA was an insurance company.

    Lance's Lawyer yelled right at the VERY beginning:

    "This aint no doping case this is Texas contract law!"

    SCA CEO dragged it on because he wanted to show the truth.
  • KKspeeder
    KKspeeder Posts: 111
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    le patron wrote:
    I can do a good realgains impression if I copy and paste from the cutting edge muscle forum. :wink:

    Not that I'm necessarily saying all those facts and figures aren't accurate. They do get to the heart of the issue....what power output is being generated for how long by a rider weighing how much.

    This is essentially what Lemond wanted and if measured against a baseline would go a long way to showing whether performances are unassisted or not.

    Don't think we'll ever get those though.


    Holy hell that forum is scary...

    I know :shock: What chance have you got huh?

    You guys, read the thread on how to beat a urine test. :P

    Hint: It invoves getting a Catheter into your bladder; drain out that dirty urine and replace it with your friend's clean urine!

    The UCI does not run DNA comparisons on the samples. Gotta love the good old UCI.

    "IF you dont like the sport get the hell out."
    -UCI president Hein Verbruggen in response to an Italian riders heart attack death
  • richard wants a baum
    richard wants a baum Posts: 744
    Moray Gub
    You cant just admit he won his case can you ? It eats you up to say that instead you gotta put on your usual biased viewpoint..

    How can you have a biased viewpoint? is the very act of having a view point being biased that is youve taken a side? Of course Aurelio is going to argue his view of what happend why would he do anything else. This is an intresting thread, its funny how different people require different amounts of evidence for different riders. I myself am guilty of this. The fact is any rider from that time peroid has to have a question mark over there wins becuase of the sheer amount of riders that where or have been caught.
    Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    KKspeeder wrote:
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    le patron wrote:
    I can do a good realgains impression if I copy and paste from the cutting edge muscle forum. :wink:

    Not that I'm necessarily saying all those facts and figures aren't accurate. They do get to the heart of the issue....what power output is being generated for how long by a rider weighing how much.

    This is essentially what Lemond wanted and if measured against a baseline would go a long way to showing whether performances are unassisted or not.

    Don't think we'll ever get those though.


    Holy hell that forum is scary...

    I know :shock: What chance have you got huh?

    You guys, read the thread on how to beat a urine test. :P

    Hint: It invoves getting a Catheter into your bladder; drain out that dirty urine and replace it with your friend's clean urine!

    The UCI does not run DNA comparisons on the samples. Gotta love the good old UCI.

    "IF you dont like the sport get the hell out."
    -UCI president Hein Verbruggen in response to an Italian riders heart attack death

    I'll be sure to bear that in mind should I ever have found myself needing to cheat a urine test to escape sanction after a 3rd cat race... Then i'll go home and shoot myself.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    digruntled goat "I'll be sure to bear that in mind should I ever have found myself needing to cheat a urine test to escape sanction after a 3rd cat race... Then i'll go home and shoot myself."

    Does that mean you dont expect to be tested but it's useful information to have in case testing policy changes........????
    :shock:
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    markwalker wrote:
    digruntled goat "I'll be sure to bear that in mind should I ever have found myself needing to cheat a urine test to escape sanction after a 3rd cat race... Then i'll go home and shoot myself."

    Does that mean you dont expect to be tested but it's useful information to have in case testing policy changes........????
    :shock:

    Mes non, mon amis. I meant that should I ever get to the stage where I'm cheating in order to win 3rd cat races, i'll have deeper problems than what to do if I get caught.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • markwalker
    markwalker Posts: 953
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    markwalker wrote:
    digruntled goat "I'll be sure to bear that in mind should I ever have found myself needing to cheat a urine test to escape sanction after a 3rd cat race... Then i'll go home and shoot myself."

    Does that mean you dont expect to be tested but it's useful information to have in case testing policy changes........????
    :shock:

    Mes non, mon amis. I meant that should I ever get to the stage where I'm cheating in order to win 3rd cat races, i'll have deeper problems than what to do if I get caught.

    If i ever get to the stage where Im able to win third cat races again i probably should be tested.
  • flattythehurdler
    flattythehurdler Posts: 2,314
    KKspeeder wrote:
    ShockedSoShocked wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    le patron wrote:
    I can do a good realgains impression if I copy and paste from the cutting edge muscle forum. :wink:

    Not that I'm necessarily saying all those facts and figures aren't accurate. They do get to the heart of the issue....what power output is being generated for how long by a rider weighing how much.

    This is essentially what Lemond wanted and if measured against a baseline would go a long way to showing whether performances are unassisted or not.

    Don't think we'll ever get those though.


    Holy hell that forum is scary...

    I know :shock: What chance have you got huh?

    You guys, read the thread on how to beat a urine test. :P

    Hint: It invoves getting a Catheter into your bladder; drain out that dirty urine and replace it with your friend's clean urine!

    The UCI does not run DNA comparisons on the samples. Gotta love the good old UCI.

    "IF you dont like the sport get the hell out."
    -UCI president Hein Verbruggen in response to an Italian riders heart attack death

    Anyone prepared to do that deserves to be cut a bit of slack IMO.
    Dan
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Anyone preapred to do that needs to seriously think about what got them to the point where when somebody said "i'm going ot insert this catheter into your bladder in order to etc etc" they thought that it was a good idea.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Or alternatively just stick a bit of soap powder on your fingers and pee over them to wash it into the cup...
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • le_patron
    le_patron Posts: 494
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Anyone preapred to do that needs to seriously think about what got them to the point where when somebody said "i'm going ot insert this catheter into your bladder in order to etc etc" they thought that it was a good idea.

    Obviously.

    Surely no-one is going to do it without thinking it through. Presumably at the top end of the sport with lots of money and fame involved it seems like a sensible idea.

    After all, we all make sacrifices to put dinner on the table. Lots of people would happily swap what they do (or aren't doing in the current recession) for riding a bike around, even if it does involve sticking a rubber tube on their johnson.
  • prawny
    prawny Posts: 5,440
    le patron wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Anyone preapred to do that needs to seriously think about what got them to the point where when somebody said "i'm going ot insert this catheter into your bladder in order to etc etc" they thought that it was a good idea.

    Obviously.

    Surely no-one is going to do it without thinking it through. Presumably at the top end of the sport with lots of money and fame involved it seems like a sensible idea.

    After all, we all make sacrifices to put dinner on the table. Lots of people would happily swap what they do (or aren't doing in the current recession) for riding a bike around, even if it does involve sticking a rubber tube on their johnson.

    On yeah no problem - In? That's a whole different kettle of salmon! :shock:
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • le_patron
    le_patron Posts: 494
    Agree. But you get a kiss from the podium girls for your troubles.

    On the mechanics, not sure how much pressure is required to make it go in.....
  • DavMartinR
    DavMartinR Posts: 897
    Are you taking the P!SS ??? No not yet, just another 12cm of tubing to go!!

    You'd have to have some really good mates to let you take the p!ss out of them. :lol:
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    le patron wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Anyone preapred to do that needs to seriously think about what got them to the point where when somebody said "i'm going ot insert this catheter into your bladder in order to etc etc" they thought that it was a good idea.

    Obviously.

    Surely no-one is going to do it without thinking it through. Presumably at the top end of the sport with lots of money and fame involved it seems like a sensible idea.

    After all, we all make sacrifices to put dinner on the table. Lots of people would happily swap what they do (or aren't doing in the current recession) for riding a bike around, even if it does involve sticking a rubber tube on their johnson.

    I don't know what you do.. but my sacrifices are fairly well limited to rising at 0615 five days a week and having to wear a tie.

    As Joey Mclaughlin said in rough ride "f*ck that. That's pain that is"
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • prawny
    prawny Posts: 5,440
    DavMartinR wrote:
    Are you taking the P!SS ??? No not yet, just another 12cm of tubing to go!!

    You'd have to have some really good mates to let you take the p!ss out of them. :lol:

    12cm !! :shock:

    Wouldn't be so bad for me, still don't fancy it though
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    this was pretty awesome...a great bunch of athletes, and he gets back and does 5 attacks in what..1 or 2km...painful Fingers crossed Contador duels with LA this way...and wins

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykoRaPLq ... re=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Ste_S
    Ste_S Posts: 1,173
    NJK wrote:
    adeyboy wrote:
    neeb wrote:
    but this guy cannot be put up as a hero by the same people who are castigating Armstrong in other threads; it just doesn't make sense.
    I agree, but cheating is relative. I know some people will strongly disagree with that, but it's true. In a culture where everyone was taking EPO to get their haemocrit to 49 exactly (as they were in 1998) it's not the same. Pantani was a victim.

    Pantani was a victim? Bullshit! He was a cheat and he let me and all his other fans down.
    The victims were the honest riders who's win money he took.

    Who did he cheat in that era? 1994-2000.

    Boardman, and err....
  • shinyhelmut
    shinyhelmut Posts: 1,364
    Dave_1 wrote:
    .a great bunch of athletes

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykoRaPLq ... re=related

    Pantani, Heras, Virenque, Beloki, Ulrich, Armstrong.

    Surely you mean a great bunch of chemists?
  • aurelio_-_banned
    aurelio_-_banned Posts: 1,317
    Duplicate post due to forum lag. :oops:
  • le_patron
    le_patron Posts: 494
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Fingers crossed Contador duels with LA this way...and wins

    I just think that whilst they are on the same team and Bruyneel is involved, we won't get this, too much money and power at stake.
    --
    I re-watched Ras v Contador's duels in the '07 Tdf whilst on the turbo last night, ignoring the ethics, the drama was edge of the seat stuff, nothing like two top GC contenders duking it out on a mountain top finish.

    C'mon AC, swap teams.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    le patron wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    Fingers crossed Contador duels with LA this way...and wins

    I just think that whilst they are on the same team and Bruyneel is involved, we won't get this, too much money and power at stake.
    --
    I re-watched Ras v Contador's duels in the '07 Tdf whilst on the turbo last night, ignoring the ethics, the drama was edge of the seat stuff, nothing like two top GC contenders duking it out on a mountain top finish.

    C'mon AC, swap teams.

    Contador should have ripped up the contract. IMO any help LA offers will be to put himself within striking distance of yellow...I think LA getting beaten would be great TV...he needs that...he will blame his team, Bruyneel....he will poss show his worst side when he is the loser in 09
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Murr X
    Murr X Posts: 258
    Yes Dave I agree that LA getting beaten would make for stonkingly good television! :D

    I'm not quite sure how Ligget & Sherwen would handle that - if they even could.
  • dulldave
    dulldave Posts: 949
    Nice to see that this post didn't degenerate into the same tired old argument about Lance Armstrong.
    Scottish and British...and a bit French

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