Can you prosecute a 13yr old boy

DonDaddyD

OK on my way home cycling (ITB you happy it involves commuting) as I passed a news stand I saw that police have chosen not to prosecute a 13yr old boy for getting a 15yr old girl preggers.

She conceived the child when he was 12.

Can you prosecute a 12/13yr old? Should they prosecute? For the Fathers and Mothers on the site if that was your son or daughter what would you do?

Incidentally I don't recommend trying to read A-boards at speed....

lost_in_thought

I'd have dragged her to the nearest clinic and bought her an abortion.

Perhaps we'd have cycled.

It would have been a beautiful bonding experience.

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

I'd have dragged her to the nearest clinic and bought her an abortion.

Perhaps we'd have cycled.

It would have been a beautiful bonding experience.

:shock:

Sorry I asked...

:shock:

lost_in_thought

You've got one little topic I fell quite strongly about right there... I don't think kids should be brought into the world when there's not the structure/framework for their parents to support them.

And I really don't think that it's responsible to allow a 13-year-old and a 15-year-old to raise a child, furthermore it shouldn't be a burden passed on to their parents. Far easier to get rid of it, if abortion bothers you then adoption would be a viable alternative.

itboffin

totally agree with you on that one LiTs I'd go so far as to lock the parents up and have the baby adopted out.

AyrshireBacon

Yeah, great idea. Lock up parents where their kids have got themselves up the duff. Maybe then the kids can learn some values when they speak to the folks at visiting time.

Next thing we'll be locking up parents whose kids play truant. No, wait a minute, that's started already!!! And truancy has only risen by a third since we started doing that.

I don't know waht the answer is here, for something which has been happening forever, but I'm sure it's not "jail the parents"

nwallace

DonDaddyD wrote:

Can you prosecute a 12/13yr old? Should they prosecute?

Yes, No

Up here it would be something daft like the boy is over 12, if his "GF" was also 13 he would have been prosecuted for statutory rape. He could be prosecuted for rape because his "GF" is under 16. There is no crime for her to be prosecuted for. (The Scottish governments attempts to sort that out have been in the papers recently)

Scots law has no concept of a woman or man forcing themselves on a man, so a woman can't be charged/prosecuted for raping a man and gay rape doesn't exist. Both woudl be treated as some form of Assault charge.

itboffin

AyrshireBacon wrote:

Yeah, great idea. Lock up parents where their kids have got themselves up the duff. Maybe then the kids can learn some values when they speak to the folks at visiting time.

Next thing we'll be locking up parents whose kids play truant. No, wait a minute, that's started already!!! And truancy has only risen by a third since we started doing that.

I don't know waht the answer is here, for something which has been happening forever, but I'm sure it's not "jail the parents"

The stocks?

lost_in_thought

AyrshireBacon wrote:

Yeah, great idea. Lock up parents where their kids have got themselves up the duff. Maybe then the kids can learn some values when they speak to the folks at visiting time.

Next thing we'll be locking up parents whose kids play truant. No, wait a minute, that's started already!!! And truancy has only risen by a third since we started doing that.

I don't know waht the answer is here, for something which has been happening forever, but I'm sure it's not "jail the parents"

I find that truancy jail time thing a tad bizarre, I only found out today reading that story in the news that the parents actually get jailed. I don't see how that's an effective solution.

A fine or a cut in benefits as applicable would be more effective in my eyes.

AyrshireBacon

itboffin wrote:

AyrshireBacon wrote:

Yeah, great idea. Lock up parents where their kids have got themselves up the duff. Maybe then the kids can learn some values when they speak to the folks at visiting time.

Next thing we'll be locking up parents whose kids play truant. No, wait a minute, that's started already!!! And truancy has only risen by a third since we started doing that.

I don't know waht the answer is here, for something which has been happening forever, but I'm sure it's not "jail the parents"

The stocks?

For who? Parents? Or Kids? Both?

Rich158

Welcome to the Daily Mail debating society

lost_in_thought

Rich158 wrote:

Welcome to the Daily Mail debating society

Yeah, bring it on! Next friday, immigration.

deadliest

How about executing the parents and sending the kids to the third world to be ground into some sort of edible paste ?

_Brun_

deadliest wrote:

How about executing the parents and sending the kids to the third world to be ground into some sort of edible paste ?

Think of the environment damnit, it would consume far less energy to do the grinding locally. It would also create British jobs for British people, or alternatively because they can't be arsed to do it, appreciative immigrants.

Did anyone notice in the bbc article that disgusting under-16 sprog-sprouting is actually down significantly (12% by my reckoning) over the last 10 years? Tabloids would never make that a headline would they.

_Brun_

By the way, if someone doesn't drag this thread back onto the topic of bicycle commuting quickly (nice try LiT) ITB will be in here having another hissy-fit.

Unless of course he is more interested in teenage pregnancy than football, which would be really rather concerning.

alfablue

_Brun_ wrote:

By the way, if someone doesn't drag this thread back onto the topic of bicycle commuting quickly (nice try LiT) ITB will be in here having another hissy-fit.

Maybe the girl was the local bike...?



:oops:



sorry

Specialized Needs

[cake stop]
It concerns me somewhat more that presumably someone (adult) has sanctioned/promoted the story ... and that some impressionable people may see the three people involved having their 'fifteen minutes of fame' and " :idea: " :shock: ...
[/cake stop]

_Brun_

Alfie Patten for celebrity big brother 2010.

il_principe

lost_in_thought wrote:

AyrshireBacon wrote:

Yeah, great idea. Lock up parents where their kids have got themselves up the duff. Maybe then the kids can learn some values when they speak to the folks at visiting time.

Next thing we'll be locking up parents whose kids play truant. No, wait a minute, that's started already!!! And truancy has only risen by a third since we started doing that.

I don't know waht the answer is here, for something which has been happening forever, but I'm sure it's not "jail the parents"

I find that truancy jail time thing a tad bizarre, I only found out today reading that story in the news that the parents actually get jailed. I don't see how that's an effective solution.

A fine or a cut in benefits as applicable would be more effective in my eyes.

Ah, solutions. Something this government is a bit short of really. Soundbites yeah, solutions no.

DonDaddyD

The truancy thing is ridiculous beyond all belief. Yes some parents will let their children run feral on the streets when they should be a school.

But I’ve encountered many kids going truant for reasons related and encounters in the school (bullying being the most apparent). Children, out of fear, may not tell anyone (including their parents). Expecting parents to be solely responsible for their children’s attendance at school is frankly wrong. What you end up with is parents forcing children to go to school - despite an incline that something is wrong - because they are scared of being prosecuted. It is in itself ill-treatment to children IMO.

It’s not necessarily a lack of parenting that may make a child go truant, it (and likely is) failure on the teachers part to protect the children while in school - Hold them accountable when necessary (as well as the parents). Sorry I’ve had some crap teachers in my years.

I don't think kids should be brought into the world when there's not the structure/framework for their parents to support them.

Care to elaborate on what that perceived structure/framework would be?

On the subject of the 12/13yr old.

Yes there is a lot of sexual influences in the media. I do think sex education needs to be taught at school more-so and it needs to be frank upfront and done properly. I feel it needs to be taught in its fullness in a way that will reach children but it also needs to be taught alongside moral implications and values.

Why is it (in my experience) that there are far more teenage pregnancies amongst people from less affluent backgrounds than those (my friends that went to private school)?

2tired2ride

In The Sun's interview the 13 year old was asked how he would finance the baby, and he asked what finance ment?!!

tailwindhome

nwallace wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Can you prosecute a 12/13yr old? Should they prosecute?

There is no crime for her to be prosecuted for. (The Scottish governments attempts to sort that out have been in the papers recently)

I'm no expert on law (especially Scottish Law) but this seems incorrect. If you were correct it would it not mean that a 40 year old woman could have sex with a 12 year old boy and not have commited a crime.

Interesting the attitude in society which seeks to prosecute the Boy for having sex with the Girl and not vice versa. Since when did 15 year old girls start having sex with boys who look so young?

The most disturbing aspect for me was the joy in the voice of the representative of The Sun, who told Radio 5 that this was a "Great" story for the Sun, taking particular satisfaction in the fact the boy looked so young




Finally excuse me if this seems cynical but I wouldn't be suprised it is later discovered that this boy is not actually the father

DonDaddyD

To be honest if I got a girl pregnant at that age I think my Mum/Dad would need to go prison because it'll send him over the edge.... The sheer thought of that is enough for me not to get a girl pregnant even to this day.

Also you've got to be brave and bold to tell the girls Dad that his 15yr old princess has been soiled...

itboffin

When the day comes it will be a brave man who tells me he would like to date one of my daughters :twisted:

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

To be honest if I got a girl pregnant at that age ...

At 12 I wouldn't have had a clue how to>

nwallace

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

nwallace wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Can you prosecute a 12/13yr old? Should they prosecute?

There is no crime for her to be prosecuted for. (The Scottish governments attempts to sort that out have been in the papers recently)

I'm no expert on law (especially Scottish Law) but this seems incorrect. If you were correct it would it not mean that a 40 year old woman could have sex with a 12 year old boy and not have commited a crime.

No expert either, just going by what I have read.

It's the specific rules for under 16s, the specific case given was a 13 and 15 year old.

Annoyingly can't find the reports in newspaper archives.
One of the reasons for leaving it the way it is, is that if Girls were also criminally liable for it as well as boys (who are) it would be criminalising young girls....
WTF happened to equality?

Petromyzon

2tired2ride wrote:

In The Sun's interview the 13 year old was asked how he would finance the baby, and he asked what finance ment?!!

What does finance men?

/sorry, pedant hat off, couldn't resist.

It is a pretty harsh society that would charge both of them with statutory rape of each other here. Fair enough it is a crappy situation but no-one has died, the child will be looked after by the grandparents.

Apparently the incidence of pre-16 pregnancy has decreased recently but the papers just like to take the most extreme stories they can find because they make compelling copy. The plural of anecdote is *not* evidence, and it is not like the Sun can get on their high horse as whether or not the parents have signed the children's right to privacy away they should IMHO think twice about publishing such photos.

I have no idea what the solution to these sorts of problems is but no doubt it is highly complex. Worth noting that countries with good sex education such as Holland often have lower teenage pregnancy rates. I'm sure the Daily Heil would have us teaching all kids that you can't have sex without a C of E wedding but IMHO the biology, the barriers and the sense that a new baby requires lasting emotional and material support are sufficient and appropriate principles to teach children.

Cunobelin

2tired2ride wrote:

In The Sun's interview the 13 year old was asked how he would finance the baby, and he asked what finance ment?!!

According to his father - it's "making a packet" from selling the story.

Which is another point... is the Press rewarding this family financially encouraging behaviour of this type.

ratherbeintobago

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

Finally excuse me if this seems cynical but I wouldn't be suprised it is later discovered that this boy is not actually the father

+1

RBIT

Cunobelin

ratherbeintobago wrote:

WheezyMcChubby wrote:

Finally excuse me if this seems cynical but I wouldn't be suprised it is later discovered that this boy is not actually the father

+1

RBIT

Apparently there are now three other claimants..

Nice to see these lads coming forwards for a share of the proceeds, sorry I meant to accept their social responsibility.

woodyonthebeach

Just going to add another point of debate to this already deeply debated subject

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/4/20090215/tuk ... a1618.html

Im not trying to cause any trouble by posting this link. But WTF she is what 14/15 years old and had other sexual partners.Not good in the slightest and with this such thing being in the paper is only glorifying a subject which just depicts a fall in self awareness and pride.

It makes me think twice about having kids after reading this. I think the best thing my mum said to me was if you get a girl pregnant you sort it out as I will have nothing to do with you.