Riding style

greg66_tri_v2.0

I probably should point out that the point of rolling in the 39 (or a 42) on the flat is to train your legs at 100+ rpm, and (IIRC) more specifically the 120+ range. So then when you're in sprint you can lay down some serious inch at 120+ rpm without feeling that your legs are completely misfiring.

Me? I find 110 as fast as I ever want to get. LIke I said, it's a case of do as I say, not as I do (eg as has been said before, round town I leave it it 53x16 and aim to spin between 90 and 100. Traffic light pullaways can be fun if you've got someone using the 21 to sprint off the line...)

wgwarburton

lost_in_thought wrote:

CJ- it varies. Gollum was a 48/14, the Bowery is a 46/14. I would say 46 is more normal.

In other, related questions, is there a difference in technique/feel/efficiency between using the big ring or the littler ring with a bigger or smaller sprocket respectively to generate roughly the same GI?

If that makes no sense I'll rephrase... :oops:

If the ratio's the same it makes little difference. A big-to-big combination obviously weighs a few grammes more but that is apparantly outweighed by the small improvements in frictional losses you get from running the chain at a slightly lower tension (chain tension being related to the radius the chain runs at in relation to that of the wheels and pedals).
I think that bigger sprockets wear more slowly, too- lower tension and more teeth to take the strain. That may be subtly related to ratios in the same way as skid-patches are but i havn't investigated. I doubt it's significant.
I'm running 42x16 at the moment- the Winter Hack was 52x22 before it died...

Can I just take a moment here to repeat my spinning mantra : I think higher cadences are easier on the knees than grinding.

Cheers,
W.

lost_in_thought

Thanks buns!

I was on about the geared roadie, which I admit I failed to point out, but I guess the points about chain tension stand.

Feltup

On the roadie I just try and minimize the amount of angle the chain has to go through i.e. Big ring small cog is fine but big ring big cog is putting too much cross loading on the chain. I don't notice that much difference between using the big ring bigger cog compared to small ring smaller cog, maybe a slight preference for the former. I have nothing really to base that on except feel.

Bassjunkieuk

DDD - If your SCR 3.0 is running a similar cassette to what mine was (Dever replaced it during the service last year with a more standard 12-25 shimano block) you'll need to do a bit of googling to find your ring sizes!

Start off by checking around for the model of bike and find out the model of cassette you have, I think I actually pulled these details off Dever's sites as they still had the correct years model listed. You'll then need to plug that into google and sift through the results to find the right cog sizes.

I use Sheldon Browns GI calculator as it produces loads of results from GI, ratios and even speeds at a given RPM!

Rich158

Feltup wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

I might have to give my inner ring a go, I can't remember the last time i shifted down a ring at the front. I still manage to spin at about 95-100 though, and just grind out the hills in 52-25, but then I only have relatively short hills that never get above 15% or so.

What gearing are you going for on the FW? I haave put a compact 50-34 on the front at the moment with either a 11-23 (current) or a 12-27 (which I will be using on the FW).

Round here I prefer riding my old set up of 52-39 12-27 than the compact but I want to get used to the compact well in advance of the FW.

I'm sticking to 53/39 with 11-25, I know I'm going to regret it :roll: I've got my first real training session outside of commuting tomorow, 40+ miles with a few 20-25% climbs, not long ones, but just a little taster of what's to come. I may well be ordering a compact chainset on Monday

And as for spinning, the fastest I've ever recorded was 140rpm, and I damn near bounced myself off the bike :shock:

DonDaddyD

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

DDD - If your SCR 3.0 is running a similar cassette to what mine was (Dever replaced it during the service last year with a more standard 12-25 shimano block) you'll need to do a bit of googling to find your ring sizes!

LOL. When I asked Maurice in DeVer (the owner) about changing the front ring on my bike he looked at the bike, then looked at me - taking a brief look at the bike again - and said "You know what, I wouldn't bother". They're good that way only let you upgrade if necessary it's almost like my bike isn't of pedigree enough for them to spend time on it.

That said I love DeVer they are the only bike shop I know where there is a good chance I'll be getting 20% off a bike. Its so bloody hard not to spend money when the sales man is throwing discounts at you

A typical DeVer sales pitch:

"What you using the bike for sir, what's your price range"

<< At this point you could say to do the Etape and you've got £300 spend it matters little >>

"Yeah there is no point in going mad mad geez I use this"

<< I'm left wondering if I had said £1000 - £2000 he would have kept callling me sir... Sales man then proceeds to take out the top of the range model of any make for me it was a SCR1 having clearly quoted between the SCR3 and 2 price range>>

"Yeah this is - quote the reccommended retail price and site some features that sound cool and then follow to the deal clincher- but you can have it for £100-200 less than that if you want"

<< The sales guy then leaves you to talk to his friend or serve another customer. This is crucial he's left you holding this bike you can't afford, don't want or need but is now so heavily discounted it would be stupid to say no. A bond begins to form...>>

<< You think about it some more and your eyes begin to water a little with dreams of pounding the open road on that bike. At this point he comes back >>

"So what do you think"

<< What does he expect you to bloody think! It's a great deal, a bike better than the one you wanted and its just slightly more than what you wanted to pay >>

<< Your lip quivers, you break and you walk out with a new bike >>

(It's happened to me on four occasions now. - Three bikes and 20% off my carbon seatpost. The last time I would have walked out with a SCR1 or 2 but luckily they only had SCR3's)

Feltup

I guarantee you will be walking Hardknott at least with 39x25. I think the pro boys like Rob Jebb do it on a 39x27 but they are freaks!

Rich158

Oh bugger, I always over estimate my ability :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

How easy is it to change down to a compact, is it just a matter of changing the chainrings?

il_principe

Rich158 wrote:

Oh bugger, I always over estimate my ability :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

How easy is it to change down to a compact, is it just a matter of changing the chainrings?

No, unfortunately the front derailleur will need changing as well and of course you'll need to re-index.

Rich158

Forget that last question, of course they're not the same, that's why one's compact Doh :roll:

Looks like a 12-27 cassette and a prayer then.

roger_merriman

Rich158 wrote:

Oh bugger, I always over estimate my ability :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

How easy is it to change down to a compact, is it just a matter of changing the chainrings?

should be yes,

also be aware that some 20% hills are worse than others some are more level some have nasty little or not so littlle ramps up, surface etc and fact that some are simply not measured correctly or simply from a GPS say.

Feltup

Depends on your front changer but I swapped my 52-39 for a compact 50-34 and then just had to reposition my Dura Ace front changer i.e. slide it down a little and it works absolutely fine. Some tweaking needed but nothing too hard and certainly the only thing I had to buy was the chainset. Check around and you can pick up compact chainsets fairly cheaply.

girv73

OK, so this spinning thing, what's it all about then? Is it training for road race sprints? Does it do anything else?

My workbike is a MTB, running 22/32/44 up front and an 11-32 on the back. My current route home is largely flat but with a nasty 500ft uphill finish. I guess I could do the flat part in one gear on the 44, but what good would it do me? What about at traffic lights, am I allowed to change down then or do I have to mash away from them in the same big gear?

Feltup

Spinning is all about keeping a reasonably high cadence i.e. above 90 so that you don't generate lots of lactic acid in the muscles on long rides. Think of it like trying to carry a very heavy load 100m now split that load in two and you will probably find that you use less energy and might even do it quicker because your legs don't burn out.

One thing to try on your new bike is to pick a gear and see what speed you are comfortably riding at then change down a gear and increase your cadence but not the effort you are putting in and now see what speed you are doing. I would bet that you increase your speed a lot of the time by 1 or 2 mph. Your cardio system gets more of a workout at higher cadences but your legs will last longer.

girv73

Well now.

I gave spinning a try on the way home tonight. I stuck workbike on the 44 tooth and selected a middly-high gear, then spun like a mad bugger along the flat bit of my route. Like Feltup said, speed was normal or a bit higher, c/v was working harder ... but the legs definitely felt fresher and I was able to maintain the speed for the whole length of the flat, which was a real surprise. I don't really track my average speeds (traffic is too variable) but I reckon I did pretty well there.

I died off on the hilly section at the end and shifted down to the middle ring, but tried to maintain the cadence by shifting gears. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it helped.

I'm officially impressed now Who woulda thought that Armstrong bloke knew what he was on about!

redddraggon

jashburnham wrote:

Rich158 wrote:

Oh bugger, I always over estimate my ability :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

How easy is it to change down to a compact, is it just a matter of changing the chainrings?

No, unfortunately the front derailleur will need changing as well and of course you'll need to re-index.

Front should be fine, won't need to swap front mech.

Apart from Campag for a couple of years, who makes compact specific front mechs anyway? I don't think anyone does anymore.

greg66_tri_v2.0

girv73 wrote:

Well now.

I gave spinning a try on the way home tonight. I stuck workbike on the 44 tooth and selected a middly-high gear, then spun like a mad bugger along the flat bit of my route. Like Feltup said, speed was normal or a bit higher, c/v was working harder ... but the legs definitely felt fresher and I was able to maintain the speed for the whole length of the flat, which was a real surprise. I don't really track my average speeds (traffic is too variable) but I reckon I did pretty well there.

I died off on the hilly section at the end and shifted down to the middle ring, but tried to maintain the cadence by shifting gears. I'm not 100% sure, but I think it helped.

I'm officially impressed now Who woulda thought that Armstrong bloke knew what he was on about!

It will have two benefits in the long run: first, spinning will enable you to ride longer rides without sacrificing speed (ie reduces fatigue), and secondly, spinning plus strength will give you a higher max spring speed. It's all good.

It also should (in the short term) enable you to accelerate on a climb more easily and more rapidly.

itboffin

Whilst struggling to follow cjcp and Jon around RP a couple of weeks ago my wife who was also in the park mentioned that she'd seen me, "really how did you know it was me?" I asked "you have a very distinctive riding style" she replied "how so?"

Erratic



Yep that'll be me