Riding style

DonDaddyD

I just rode the 39 ring home. Obviously it was easier but I found that I could go faster for longer regardless of what rear cog the chain was on. With all my gears indexed properly for the first time and therefore no chain rub I actually preferred spinning on this ring than riding on the 50.

Is there anything I can do to develop on this?

redddraggon

You really have a 39 with a 50? You sure it isn't a 52 or 53?

The 39 is a good ring for the flat especially with something like 11-25 at the back. Although if I'm riding in a group on the flat I'm in the big ring.

The problem with using the big ring most of the time, especially if you are not particularly strong is that you can end up riding a lot of the time in the bigger sprockets - not really good for chain wear.

If you don't do many hills (or you are good at hills) you could always swap the 39t for a 42t inner chainring - that'd make it even better for flat riding.

redddraggon

You really have a 39 with a 50? You sure it isn't a 52 or 53?

The 39 is a good ring for the flat especially with something like 11-25 at the back. Although if I'm riding in a group on the flat I'm in the big ring.

The problem with using the big ring most of the time, especially if you are not particularly strong is that you can end up riding a lot of the time in the bigger sprockets - not really good for chain wear.

If you don't do many hills (or you are good at hills) you could always swap the 39t for a 42t inner chainring - that'd make it even better for flat riding.

Tonyroc

i don't really know what goes on down in the gears on my Brompton, but some days I always seem to be in the wrong one and on others it all seems to just go right and I fairly zip along (obviously as far as you can zip on a Brompton.) Is it the gears or are some days better than others?

DonDaddyD

redddraggon wrote:

You really have a 39 with a 50? You sure it isn't a 52 or 53?

The 39 is a good ring for the flat especially with something like 11-25 at the back. Although if I'm riding in a group on the flat I'm in the big ring.

Yeah I've got a 50/39 /30.
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/bik ... tions_id=3

I've always wanted to try a 42, how would I go attaching that to my bike? Would it make sense or even possible to have a 50, 42 and 34?

30 is too small for me and just uncomfortable.

Bassjunkieuk

Ya see DDD the problem is your bike is to new ;-) My SCR runs 52/42/30 and as I've said before I spend 95% of my time on the middle ring, usually with the 14 tooth cog at the rear to give me a 73GI.

Since changing my route to use the A24 I haven't got a hill that really warrants the jump up the 52 cog, but I still have it there should anyone warrant me laying down some big speed!

I imagine fitting a 42 shouldn't be to difficult, the crank set does come apart (I took mine apart to clean it a while back!) so I'd have a look around and see if you can source a 42 tooth ring!

Just out of interest what cog where you on up front when I encountered you, I'm assuming the biggest?

greg66_tri_v2.0

You have discovered souplesse, young padowan. The suppleness that comes with spinning, and that allows spinning at high cadences.

Here's a project: three weeks on 39x16. Then three weeks on 39x15, and so on until you get to the smallest sprocket (with a triple, you should be OK on middle ring and smallest sprocket). Check the GI you're on, then move to a higher GI using the 50.

You will go a long way doing this to embed in your muscle memory the rapid reflexes needed to spin at high cadences without spinning out or bobbing.

Of course, this is a case of do as I say, not as I do. I subscribe to the Shaun Yates school of training: there are two levels of effort, 'ard and 'kin' 'ard. Apparently he was of the view that were he to follow that regime, he'd end up weak and useless in the spring.

That was not a widely held view in the peloton, as I understand.

redddraggon

DonDaddyD wrote:

redddraggon wrote:

You really have a 39 with a 50? You sure it isn't a 52 or 53?

The 39 is a good ring for the flat especially with something like 11-25 at the back. Although if I'm riding in a group on the flat I'm in the big ring.

Yeah I've got a 50/39 /30.
http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-GB/bik ... tions_id=3

I've always wanted to try a 42, how would I go attaching that to my bike? Would it make sense or even possible to have a 50, 42 and 34?

30 is too small for me and just uncomfortable.

I'm guessing there's no proper hills your way? At the end of a long day and you hit a 15% climb, a 30t inner ring might be quite handy.

All you need to do is buy a 42t chainring in 130mm BCD (I guess) undo the bolts holding the 39t on and swap it over. The 50 and 39 will be held on with the same chainring bolts....

50/42/34 is possible, but if I had a triple I'd go for something like 53/42/30 or 53/39/30, you sort of lose the whole point of having low gears if you ditch the 30t. However if you are only doing flat commuting with your bike something like a 53/42, 52/42, 53/39 double would be my choice..

itboffin

Greg66 wrote:

You have discovered souplesse, young padowan. The suppleness that comes with spinning, and that allows spinning at high cadences.

Here's a project: three weeks on 39x16. Then three weeks on 39x15, and so on until you get to the smallest sprocket (with a triple, you should be OK on middle ring and smallest sprocket). Check the GI you're on, then move to a higher GI using the 50.

You will go a long way doing this to embed in your muscle memory the rapid reflexes needed to spin at high cadences without spinning out or bobbing.

Of course, this is a case of do as I say, not as I do. I subscribe to the Shaun Yates school of training: there are two levels of effort, 'ard and 'kin' 'ard. Apparently he was of the view that were he to follow that regime, he'd end up weak and useless in the spring.

That was not a widely held view in the peloton, as I understand.

What's that Greg your recommending single speed training, I thought so...

Your dirty little secret is safe with us :twisted:

itboffin

DDD if you're planning to do the Highclere with me and perhaps BJ keep the 39 and you will use the 30

Following on from sound advices on our SS/FG thread I changed my normal cruising ring from 50 to 39 and have increased my avg rpm by 15-20 RPM

PS. I hope you've booked you place for Highclere

Bassjunkieuk

I was thinking about G66's recommendation of spinning earlier after the comments to Sarajoy over on the SCR thread. I might try this myself as I sometimes prefer to grind rather then spin but it looks like I could serve to benefit from the spinny style :-)
As my commute is pretty flat (none of the inclines are long) I have plenty of scope to experiment.

On a geeky side note I also have to admit I have the Sheldon Brown GI frame thingy on my top tube (the little table showing ALL your possible GI's) so I can tell with a quick glance, light permitting, what gear I'm pushing and how the gears compare if I switch up or down on the chainring :-)

DiggingDeeper

DonDaddyD wrote:

Is there anything I can do to develop on this?

Keep doing it.............

Sorry for the obvious answer. I regularly ride my route only using the middle ring.
In order to keep in the right heart rate for losing the lard it's the way forward (that's me I'm talking about). Chingford Hill is getting easier now and I'm spinning higher a lot more comfortably.

I think Gregg's training schedule for your imminent race was spot on. You are gunna need to be spinning like a b*rstard on that big ring to win

Rich158

I might have to give my inner ring a go, I can't remember the last time i shifted down a ring at the front. I still manage to spin at about 95-100 though, and just grind out the hills in 52-25, but then I only have relatively short hills that never get above 15% or so.

I don't think spinning is neccesarily easy, I ususally find a gear I can spin relatiively easily, and then go to the next hardest and spin at the same cadence for 5-20 mins. trying to spin a higher gear than you're used to is k'ing hard if you do it for any length of time.

Feltup

Rich158 wrote:

I might have to give my inner ring a go, I can't remember the last time i shifted down a ring at the front. I still manage to spin at about 95-100 though, and just grind out the hills in 52-25, but then I only have relatively short hills that never get above 15% or so.

What gearing are you going for on the FW? I haave put a compact 50-34 on the front at the moment with either a 11-23 (current) or a 12-27 (which I will be using on the FW).

Round here I prefer riding my old set up of 52-39 12-27 than the compact but I want to get used to the compact well in advance of the FW.

lost_in_thought

I've got to spin at the moment... I hope it may actually improve my riding style.

Currently it's either OK or quite annoying. I am a masher at heart.

il_principe

I'm not being funny people, but what is all this talk of using a small ring on the flat? You wanna spin, then MTFU and get a singlespeed. Spinning in a 50/16 will sort your legs out in no time.

I've found that good core stability helps when spinning as well, keeping the top of the body still and getting all the power straight down to the glutes and below.

itboffin

jashburnham wrote:

I'm not being funny people, but what is all this talk of using a small ring on the flat? You wanna spin, then MTFU and get a singlespeed. Spinning in a 50/16 will sort your legs out in no time.

I've found that good core stability helps when spinning as well, keeping the top of the body still and getting all the power straight down to the glutes and below.

How's that chain skip of yours

il_principe

itboffin wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

I'm not being funny people, but what is all this talk of using a small ring on the flat? You wanna spin, then MTFU and get a singlespeed. Spinning in a 50/16 will sort your legs out in no time.

I've found that good core stability helps when spinning as well, keeping the top of the body still and getting all the power straight down to the glutes and below.

How's that chain skip of yours

It's ok as long as I stay in the saddle, good practice for seated power = nonchalant scalpage. Just waiting on the new freewheel. This alu frames are flexy though, you don't appreciate how much but I did a session on the Turbo last night with the Alu Focus, made a point of watching the BB area and it was flexing like mad when I pushed up the wattage. Might stick the Prince in the Turbo this weekend for a comparison.

Bassjunkieuk

jashburnham wrote:

I'm not being funny people, but what is all this talk of using a small ring on the flat? You wanna spin, then MTFU and get a singlespeed. Spinning in a 50/16 will sort your legs out in no time.

I've found that good core stability helps when spinning as well, keeping the top of the body still and getting all the power straight down to the glutes and below.

I'd really love to get a SS for the winter months, especially as the roadie is in serious need of some TLC after the assault of road crud from the last 2 weeks! Not quite sure if I could use a 82GI, that's about just over halfway between my favorite gear and the next one up!

DonDaddyD

Greg, Bass and others you should be proud. I used the 39 ring and the 4th and 5th rear cog all the way to work (except on brief instance where I went on the 50 put all my power down). It used to take me 43 - 45mins to get to work. Today I did it door to bike shed in 38mins!

jashburnham wrote:

I'm not being funny people, but what is all this talk of using a small ring on the flat? You wanna spin, then MTFU and get a singlespeed. Spinning in a 50/16 will sort your legs out in no time.

Technique building. I can spin on the 39 far longer than I can on the 50. Doing it longer helps teach my leg muscles the technique of spinning.

I've found that good core stability helps when spinning as well, keeping the top of the body still and getting all the power straight down to the glutes and below.

+1million. I did this today. Yesterday (mildly) with Bass. As well as previously. Crunch the stomach, stiffen the arms and clench the chest the only thing that should move is the legs. Acceleration had me startled. I can only do that on the 50 though I need some resistance or I fear I may just loose control altogether.

DonDaddyD

Gear inch advice.

My second ring at the front is a 39t. On the back I have an *ahem* 8 speed *ahem* cassette (I didn't fully understand what I was buying alright! :evil: )

What are the ratios (such as 11 - 25t) on the back cassette?

I ride a Giant SCR3

lost_in_thought

DDD - here's a helpful table for you!

http://home.i1.net/~dwolfe/gerz/

And Jash is right kids. I would be on the FG, but clearly I'm a little worried about re-injury!

However, I have remembered that I have a 16t sprocket somewhere which may be put on the freewheel side tonight... if I can find the bloomin' thing and work out how to fit it!

Actually, Jash, how long will your new sprocket take to arrive? If I can find the new 16t you can swap it for your old one... I'm not going to be putting any power through it...

cjcp

jashburnham wrote:

I'm not being funny people, but what is all this talk of using a small ring on the flat? You wanna spin, then MTFU and get a singlespeed. Spinning in a 50/16 will sort your legs out in no time.

I've found that good core stability helps when spinning as well, keeping the top of the body still and getting all the power straight down to the glutes and below.

+1. My chain is a link short at the moment, and when I shift into 23 or 25, it jumps off the 53 on to the 39, which is only used in two cases: (i) when the chain jumps off, and (ii) when I need to get up Nightingale Lane.

It feels very weird using the 39 on the flat to the point where it doesn't feel particularly comfortable or stable at the speed I want to go. 39 would be too low for me. Is it 46 or 48 the fixers use? I'm not sure I would want to go below a 50.

lost_in_thought

CJ- it varies. Gollum was a 48/14, the Bowery is a 46/14. I would say 46 is more normal.

In other, related questions, is there a difference in technique/feel/efficiency between using the big ring or the littler ring with a bigger or smaller sprocket respectively to generate roughly the same GI?

If that makes no sense I'll rephrase... :oops:

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

Gear inch advice.

My second ring at the front is a 39t. On the back I have an *ahem* 8 speed *ahem* cassette (I didn't fully understand what I was buying alright! :evil: )

What are the ratios (such as 11 - 25t) on the back cassette?

I ride a Giant SCR3

Yeah, I get pretty cross with LBS' that do this, I don't really understand why they sold you a triple to be honest, doubt you need it.

There's a good Gear Calc here: http://software.bareknucklebrigade.com/rabbit.applet.html

The cogs at the back can very hugely. I own several cassettes (10 speed) from 11/21 all the way to 13/29. Swap them out depending on terrain, so 13/27 will basically get me up anything.

At the front I run a 50/34 (known as a compact) basically it has all the good of a triple without the extra weight. Suits me as I mix v hilly riding with flatter stuff, it's a bit of a compromise but means I can take the bike anywhere, from RP to the Alps and know I'll have the gearing I need. I do spinout on fast descents but quite honestly 50mph + is quite fast enough for me!

lost_in_thought

Jash - glad to hear that! I went for a 50/34 on the Viner at epic's recommendation and I think I have 11/25 or similar (11sp) (if that's realistic) on the cassette...

DonDaddyD

Thanks guys. I guess what I mean is what cogs do I have on the back cassette?

I'm at a stage now that I need t o better understand the mechanics of the bike. Trouble is I have to start at the begining.

il_principe

Each sprocket should be numbered, number = number of teeth.

Feltup

lost_in_thought wrote:

Jash - glad to hear that! I went for a 50/34 on the Viner at epic's recommendation and I think I have 11/25 or similar (11sp) (if that's realistic) on the cassette...

Those ratios will get you up some good steep hills, probably comfortably(everything is relative ask Einstein) up to 1:5. On fast descents I find I spin out at about 42 mph where as on 52 ring I will spin out at 45mph so not much in it really. Compacts are definitely the way forwards for all round riding.

Clever Pun

triples everywhere...arrrgh

53/39 that's where it's at. I only ever really drop to the 39 for super double b@stard hills...

I get spinning and strength practice on the fixed which transfers nicely to the squadra and now I'm using higher gearing most of the time... When I get more tired I start to spin more to let the legs rest a bit

cj on the fixed I'm running 48-17 soon to be 16. My project will be 50-17 (with 15 on the flip side)

greg66_tri_v2.0

jashburnham wrote:

itboffin wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

I'm not being funny people, but what is all this talk of using a small ring on the flat? You wanna spin, then MTFU and get a singlespeed. Spinning in a 50/16 will sort your legs out in no time.

I've found that good core stability helps when spinning as well, keeping the top of the body still and getting all the power straight down to the glutes and below.

How's that chain skip of yours

It's ok as long as I stay in the saddle, good practice for seated power = nonchalant scalpage. Just waiting on the new freewheel. This alu frames are flexy though, you don't appreciate how much but I did a session on the Turbo last night with the Alu Focus, made a point of watching the BB area and it was flexing like mad when I pushed up the wattage. Might stick the Prince in the Turbo this weekend for a comparison.

You get a slightly artificial impression in the turbo though, because the rear wheel (and so that part of the frame) is held in place, giving you something to push against. On the road, some of your push would rock the back end over and back.