Armstrong and Catlin terminate programme
Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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that is really bad....he's still in the biopassport I guess and subject to the same as the guys he has to beat...but that will not be enough for most. I think LA hs some explaining to do...but he should never have offered it the first place as everyone on here now will treat this as a + for doping0
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Darn. I wish this was announced at a press conference with Greg Lemond sitting in the first row!0
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Greg Lemond has been silent for 6 months...why? Where is he ...his voice is needed at times like this0
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Shall I Twitter him and say "how am I supposed to take you seriously now (redux)?"
The whole thing was clearly media, and Catlin, manipulation of the highest order.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
For some reason I feel the need to resort to French, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.0
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Oh dear. From transparency to silence and finally cancellation. It conforms to a pattern though, make a big announcement and then when the heat dies down, drop the plans on the QT.
To borrow from another Armstrong, it's one small bullet in the foot of Armstrong, one giant crate full of ammunition for Aurelio 0 -
Do you think he could ask Dr Michele Ferrari to step in instead?0
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I don't think even the most cycnical amongst us saw this one coming.
It's as if he sees mileage in courting doping controversy.
I wonder how this will be greated in the media, when word gets around?"Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
iainf72 wrote:Shall I Twitter him and say "how am I supposed to take you seriously now (redux)?"
The whole thing was clearly media, and Catlin, manipulation of the highest order.
do it, ID yourself...you were right and ask for an apology.0 -
I wonder if Peter Cossins still believes?0
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LA said he was not willing to post much of his results from testing online...can see that is fair enough...many out to get him...but he should never have got caitlin on that platform...what a fraud that press conference was and the Phinney son was there too on stage...0
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I'll be interested to see how his fans interpretate this PR disaster.
Is there a positive spin that can be put on this, bearing in mind Damsgaard's regime has been placed in question?
On the back of the Valverde-Fuentes link being solidified, it's hard to imagine a blacker day for the sport, given that it's only February."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
thing is, could Don Catlin have said 'this is too ambitious' ??
As much as I don't like the fact that armstrong is still doing nothing to improve the cleanliness of the sport, I'd hope that Don Catlin would be big enough to say 'Lance backed out' if this was the case, he's not minced his words in the past when it comes to other athletes from other sports with similar profiles"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
Given that most of those critical of Armstrong don't trust internal programmes anyway has anything changed apart from the king of PR ballsing one up?
Interesting to see Catlin has his own for profit testing company now. Anyone fancy joining me in setting one up? There must be gold in them thar syringes.0 -
As a LA fan, I have to say that even I am seriously dissapointed. I was firm in my belief that without a +tive, or being caught in the act, he rode clean. To me he was a bit of an inspiration, coming through the cancer treatment and riding again, as well as the seven tours. The fact that there were no +ives said to me that he was clean, and I know that there are ex Usps/Disco riders getting caught, but I would like to believe that it is a case of having to live up to expectations from being part of that team. And I know that Johan has a history, with Once et al, but I do believe in innocent until proven guilty. But this does smack of running away from being able to provide the proof that the cycling media and community to an extent think will never surface. If he was determined to prove he has and will ride clean, then I believe that this would have been dotted and crossed long before now, as they have supposedly been talking about this for what, six months now. This could have been his opportunity to say once and for all, 'There it is, I told you, now get bent', but it now appears that this will never happen. It's enough to even make the firmest of believers lose hope. And no matter what I do, I can not bring myself to follow Astana as a team :shock:0
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From a PR master like LA this is incredible. What the hell is he thinking ?
It's almost as bad as when he refused to answer Iains question !!!Planet X N2A
Trek Cobia 29er0 -
I think there's a lot of over-reaction here. And I say that as someone who most certainly isn't a fan. It is all quite puzzling though, as Armstrong must have known it would be a massive PR own goal if he couldn't pull it off. And I'm always told round here that he has such a slick PR machine.
Surely though he is still going to be subject to the biological passport scheme, and if that isn't good enough, then cycling has a lot more to worry about than whether Lance is cheating or not.
I don't think many people will change their mind about Armstrong in view of this. The pro- and anti-camps are alreadt well-entrenched and this is going to do little to change anyone's mind. All it will do is fan the flames of the exchanges betweent the pro- and anti-camps, and those in the "I couldn't care less any more, it's really boring" camp (like me) will just have to put up with the extra acrid smoke that is generated...Le Blaireau (1)0 -
As was said upthread, it fits a pattern of making a huge announcement, then backing away quietly & slowly. Excellent PR, crap anti-doping...DaveyL wrote:I think there's a lot of over-reaction here. And I say that as someone who most certainly isn't a fan. It is all quite puzzling though, as Armstrong must have known it would be a massive PR own goal if he couldn't pull it off. And I'm always told round here that he has such a slick PR machine.
Surely though he is still going to be subject to the biological passport scheme, and if that isn't good enough, then cycling has a lot more to worry about than whether Lance is cheating or not.
I don't think many people will change their mind about Armstrong in view of this. The pro- and anti-camps are alreadt well-entrenched and this is going to do little to change anyone's mind. All it will do is fan the flames of the exchanges betweent the pro- and anti-camps, and those in the "I couldn't care less any more, it's really boring" camp (like me) will just have to put up with the extra acrid smoke that is generated...
Biological passport has huge questions marks over it just now & there's no confirmation that Damsgaard is even looking at Armstrong's results.
This means he's level with the least tested pros in not being tested....
I'd love to be wrong, but this stinks & is consistent with the previous, "I never doped" claims in the way it's done.
This stinks0 -
I think LA should now release all of his past remaining test samples to the UCI passport program just to save some face.
But the chances of that happening is like finding a bag of tennis players blood in a Madrid lab? Just ain't gone happen.0 -
Richrd2205 wrote:
As was said upthread, it fits a pattern of making a huge announcement, then backing away quietly & slowly. Excellent PR, crap anti-doping...DaveyL wrote:I think there's a lot of over-reaction here. And I say that as someone who most certainly isn't a fan. It is all quite puzzling though, as Armstrong must have known it would be a massive PR own goal if he couldn't pull it off. And I'm always told round here that he has such a slick PR machine.
Surely though he is still going to be subject to the biological passport scheme, and if that isn't good enough, then cycling has a lot more to worry about than whether Lance is cheating or not.
I don't think many people will change their mind about Armstrong in view of this. The pro- and anti-camps are alreadt well-entrenched and this is going to do little to change anyone's mind. All it will do is fan the flames of the exchanges betweent the pro- and anti-camps, and those in the "I couldn't care less any more, it's really boring" camp (like me) will just have to put up with the extra acrid smoke that is generated...
Biological passport has huge questions marks over it just now & there's no confirmation that Damsgaard is even looking at Armstrong's results.
This means he's level with the least tested pros in not being tested....
I'd love to be wrong, but this stinks & is consistent with the previous, "I never doped" claims in the way it's done.
This stinks
Why does the bio passport have huge question marks over it?
And anyway, if it does, my point remains. Cycling is in big trouble in that case, with or without Lance.Le Blaireau (1)0 -
DaveyL wrote:I think there's a lot of over-reaction here. And I say that as someone who most certainly isn't a fan.
I wonder about the latter, when I read the former.
On the contrary. I think much of the comment is measured and the criticism specific.
It isn't about how effective Catlin would have been, or how he compares to Damsgaard, or the slack being taken up by the bio passport scheme.
Most posters are dispondent about the fact that he has failed to deliver upon a promise, having first used it to bolster his image. He created a sham.
The press release reads like a cabinet minister's sacking.
Ultimately, the man has lied to the cycling world. This lie is tangible.
It weakens everything he has been said in the past and it is of his own doing."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
This bit caught my attention:
A layman would likely not be able to understand complex information, he said, adding that there are natural fluctuations in some blood levels when a rider travels to a high altitude.
Hmm, I wonder if his samples are not as expected?0 -
As goes Catlin, why can't Lance even sign up for a Garmin/Columbia equivalent program ....?! To not do so raises huge questions and certainly answers one major question - will lance provide transparency ...answer NO! Me thinks perhaps Lance was stalling to sign up because he is finding training hardier than expected and ultimalty Catlin told him Adios, you sign up now or I am out of here. To come in late (+5months) would leave Caitlin with no credibility.
As for the previos 16 tests - lets be honest the UCI have aproven track record in protecting their sport - look at the 90's when they kept telling us there was no problem and it was the riders that actually called for the 50% Hct test - so with McQuaid and Verbruggen still at the top are they gonna catch Lance at anything? .... no chance he is the golden goose that lays the golden eggs.
Can't wait to see Basso's face when Lance rides away from him in the Giro - won't Basso look foolish for thinking the sport had moved on in 2years and it was an honest pursuit .... tut tut tut0 -
Yorkman wrote:This bit caught my attention:
A layman would likely not be able to understand complex information, he said, adding that there are natural fluctuations in some blood levels when a rider travels to a high altitude.
I would have thought that they would have dicussed this back in the days when the comeback was being planned. Not sure why this has just dawned on them..0 -
DaveyL wrote:Why does the bio passport have huge question marks over it?
And anyway, if it does, my point remains. Cycling is in big trouble in that case, with or without Lance.
The Bio-passport's question marks arise from McQuaid et al's response thereto: it's catching lots of folk, it really works; it's catching no-one, cycling's clean! Repeat ad naseum...
What's its basis? Who's monitoring it? What're the boundaries? Where's the external scrutiny? etc etc. Might be starter questions for 10 for the bio-passport. As it stands, it's a concept with few, if any, firm parameters. Did it identify Ricco, Piepoli et al?
At best, it's in its infancy....
Cycling is only in big trouble if it has more positives. An apparently valid scheme with huge holes sorts this, no?
Please excuse my cycnicism, but the UCI haven't exactly been at the cutting edge of anti-doping have they?0 -
Given the Catlin thing has collapsed and that no one trusts the UCI, and no one trusts internal programmes, what could Armstrong do to persuade you he was riding clean?0
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stagehopper wrote:Given the Catlin thing has collapsed and that no one trusts the UCI, and no one trusts internal programmes, what could Armstrong do to persuade you he was riding clean?
Ride badly.Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.0 -
I totally disagree that no one trusts the internal programs!
Bio passort has proven nothing yet.0 -
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stagehopper wrote:very few people trust the internal programmes then ...
Very few people trust professional cyclists full stop.
MGGasping - but somehow still alive !0
