Tour of Qatar rider passes away
Comments
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paddlemyowncanoe wrote:
Save the mawkishness condolence crap. I bet anyone on here that his haematocrit was not south of 50%.
Nice. :roll:Take care of the luxuries and the necessites will take care of themselves.0 -
Thanks Iain and Richard for quoting from my deleted post.
Looks like a moderator didn't like what I said, which I may have put a little strongly but it was designed to reflect what many will be thinking and to generate debate.0 -
Hey Paddlemyowncanoe
You seem pretty sure - what evidence do you have?
"Generate debate'? More like stir the pot.
BTW - you need to be careful with your accusations. If they're not proven true, your comments could be considered slanderous.
As Richard said - Nice0 -
There is a time and a place for debate. The immediate aftermath of someone aged just 21 dying suddenly is not the time or place. Your comment was crass and incredibly insensitive.paddlemyowncanoe wrote:Thanks Iain and Richard for quoting from my deleted post.
Looks like a moderator didn't like what I said, which I may have put a little strongly but it was designed to reflect what many will be thinking and to generate debate.0 -
I see this forum has some expert pathologists on here. :roll:
Respect. A young rider is dead. If you want to pass judgment, why not at least wait for the autopsy?0 -
paddlemyowncanoe wrote:Thanks Iain and Richard for quoting from my deleted post.
Looks like a moderator didn't like what I said, which I may have put a little strongly but it was designed to reflect what many will be thinking and to generate debate.
You're quite a disturbed individual and you probably need help given your obvious detachment frm the suffering of others. A family lost their 21 year old son. I hope the mods lock your profile and any other personas that spring up with traits like yours. have never seen a posting as sick yours in 4 1/2 years of posting on here daily0 -
Dave_1 wrote:paddlemyowncanoe wrote:Thanks Iain and Richard for quoting from my deleted post.
Looks like a moderator didn't like what I said, which I may have put a little strongly but it was designed to reflect what many will be thinking and to generate debate.
You're quite a disturbed individual and you probably need help given your obvious detachment frm the suffering of others. A family lost their 21 year old son. I hope the mods lock your profile and any other personas that spring up with traits like yours. have never seen a posting as sick yours in 4 1/2 years of posting on here daily
It is interesting that you now quote from a now non existent post and I'm left thinking your post occupies the number one position. The prize is accorded with your amazing online ability to peform remote clinical (cynical) diagnosis or was it shoight slinging ? Being so heavily disturbed by what you apparently see in another is indicative of your own suppression of same trait, real or imagined. So you can do a dia on me now, gnosis or tribe?0 -
Stop picking fights with each other. This is not the place for a forum brawl, the funeral hasn't even happened yet.0
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For once I agree with Lance Armstrong. It seems as though people think that because this is on the Internet it will do no harm and they can write what they want.0
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Quibbling aside...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... feb09news2
Freddy Nolf, father of deceased rider Frederiek Nolf, has said that he does not want to have an autopsy performed on his son. Nolf's body is expected to arrive in Belgium on Tuesday.
"Out of respect for Frederiek, we see no sense" in an autopsy to determine the cause of death, Freddy Nolf told nieuwsblad.be. "He has gone to sleep in a peaceful, natural manner. It is time to leave Frederiek to his rest."
He added, "What will it bring if we learn the exact cause? Nothing. Frederiek will not return because of it."
Belgian and Qatari doctors have already established that he died a natural death, and therefore there is no legal requirement for an autopsy.
Seems to me we can bring a lot from the exact cause. Either better cardiac monitoring for riders..or other.
Since when is dying at 22 in your sleep "natural"?0 -
Martin Van Nostrand wrote:Quibbling aside...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... feb09news2
Freddy Nolf, father of deceased rider Frederiek Nolf, has said that he does not want to have an autopsy performed on his son. Nolf's body is expected to arrive in Belgium on Tuesday.
He added, "What will it bring if we learn the exact cause? Nothing. Frederiek will not return because of it."
Belgian and Qatari doctors have already established that he died a natural death, and therefore there is no legal requirement for an autopsy.
Seems to me we can bring a lot from the exact cause. Either better cardiac monitoring for riders..or other.
Since when is dying at 22 in your sleep "natural"?
I agree seems a bit strange you would think his family would want to know the exact cause of death .
MGGasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
I believe that if a cow dies suddenly - the farmer has to have a post mortem on the animal so they can determine the reason it died.
Does seem unusual for the family not to want to know but i am sure they have their reasons.
Its a sad loss to cycling and his family.0 -
It does seem as though some individuals have lost sight that two parents have lost a son.
As difficult as it seems to some people,who seem totally wrapped up in their own beliefs, that the parents have lost their son,& the last thing they need to deal with is the thought of his body being desecrated........If you really think about it,& God forbid,you lost a child,I'm sure you'd want to remember your child sleeping peacefully,rather than being butchered on a slab.
Lets hope the idiots can stop the judgements and his friends and family can be left in their grief
Rest in peaceso many cols,so little time!0 -
Am very surprised the parents don't want a more definitive answer as to how something so abnormal happened at least so any small doubt can be eliminated , any abnormality in the victim which lead to this...in case there are things to be learned from it...defining the cause may help save others0
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I do understand where you are coming from,& someone taking an objective view would say the same.
I'm only saying that they will be totally grief stricken,& won't be concerned that knowledge of what actually caused their son's death could help someone from befalling the same fateso many cols,so little time!0 -
especially if it was a hereditary condition.Dave_1 wrote:Am very surprised the parents don't want a more definitive answer as to how something so abnormal happened at least so any small doubt can be eliminated , any abnormality in the victim which lead to this...in case there are things to be learned from it...defining the cause may help save others0 -
diarmuid wrote:
especially if it was a hereditary condition.Dave_1 wrote:Am very surprised the parents don't want a more definitive answer as to how something so abnormal happened at least so any small doubt can be eliminated , any abnormality in the victim which lead to this...in case there are things to be learned from it...defining the cause may help save others
I hope cycling media go to the rider's parents and seek answers...it is irresponsible not to enlighten us as to why something so highly abnormal happened...death by natural causes is allegedly on the death ceritificate...that's a sick joke.. ....a supremely fit athlete racing up to a 100 miles a day in the previous 5 days, age 21, dies in his sleep.....natural causes?... :? :?0 -
That's just offensive bullshit Dave_1.
I hope the cycling media respect the privacy of the rider's parents and leave them to grieve in peace.0 -
Dave_1 wrote:I hope cycling media go to the rider's parents and seek answers
I'm sure they'd love that :?
Whilst I agree it's unusual for such an apparently fit and healthy young man to die suddenly, and it may be beneficial to others find out what caused it - undetected heart defect? hereditary condition? - at the end of the day you've got to respect his parents who have lost their son. It's certainly not the place for cycling or any other media to wade in and demand otherwise.0 -
I think you may have gone too far calling on the cycling media to persue his parents there Dave.
They've lost their sone, been told by two sets of police he wasn't murdered and presumably don't have as keen an interest in sporting ethics as you or I. They were given the choice, they made it and we should respect them."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
This kind of death, a heart condition in your sleep, is reasonably common. More people die of it than HIV/AIDS, for example. I am not claiming to know the pathology, just trying to say that if a young cyclist passes away in his sleep, it could well be entirely natural.
RIP Nolfe.0 -
Absolutely true. It always gets me when people assume that a super fit young athlete like Nolf cannot be a victim of tragedies like this - its not abnormal at all and has been happening and documented for many, many years.Kléber wrote:This kind of death, a heart condition in your sleep, is reasonably common. More people die of it than HIV/AIDS, for example. I am not claiming to know the pathology, just trying to say that if a young cyclist passes away in his sleep, it could well be entirely natural.
RIP Nolfe.
Two young cyclists I know have died of heart attacks in the past 3 years. One of them was cycling at the time and had lost other family members to the condition, the other died in his sleep due to a pre existing heart condition that he was unaware of.
I am fairly certain that this death was due to a predisposed condition (however I cannot be absolutely certain and may be wrong).
RIP0 -
Kléber wrote:This kind of death, a heart condition in your sleep, is reasonably common. More people die of it than HIV/AIDS, for example. I am not claiming to know the pathology, just trying to say that if a young cyclist passes away in his sleep, it could well be entirely natural.
RIP Nolfe.
fair enough...just the odds of it happening to that age and type of person so so extremely low as compared to a normal person..my experience of family bereavment as that we wanted to know what took them....was just asking from that perspective ....am not exactly getting at sporting ethics...just what caused it..0 -
I know what you mean Dave_1 and in a perfect world, everyone could be sure of this guy's death. Given the problems in our sport, it's only fair that many want know what happened so things can be prevented but as Murr X says, it happens to quite a few young people, men especially.0
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This form of SDS (Sudden death syndrome) is now a recognised cardiac condition, affecting primarily young men between 18 and 25 with higher than normal fitness levels, so there is little legitimate reason to question the official cause of death.
sad indictment that the fear of drugs in cycling is so huge that even close family don;t want to take the chance of substances appearing on a PM, and even sadder the immediate jump to the suspicion that he was killed by dopageRobert Millar for knighthood0 -
andyp wrote:That's just offensive bullshit Dave_1.
I hope the cycling media respect the privacy of the rider's parents and leave them to grieve in peace.
Ok, but the UCI should step in an insist on a proper cause of death. There should be a coroner's inquest. All without media.
Putting one's head in the sand will only risk the lives of future cyclists. Maybe the results will show the need for better cardiac screening and testing for congenital heart diseases.
Frankly, what's most disturbing about this is the way it is getting swept away under the rug, no questions asked. Huge politics here, as this was a Belgian rider dying at a race run by Eddy Merckx.
I guess being a pro cycling spectator in 2009 just requires massive amounts of denial.0 -
andyp wrote:That's just offensive bullshit Dave_1.
I hope the cycling media respect the privacy of the rider's parents and leave them to grieve in peace.
pls state your opinions without insulting me.0 -
Martin Van Nostrand wrote:Ok, but the UCI should step in an insist on a proper cause of death. There should be a coroner's inquest. All without media.
Putting one's head in the sand will only risk the lives of future cyclists. Maybe the results will show the need for better cardiac screening and testing for congenital heart diseases.
Frankly, what's most disturbing about this is the way it is getting swept away under the rug, no questions asked. Huge politics here, as this was a Belgian rider dying at a race run by Eddy Merckx. I guess being a pro cycling spectator in 2009 just requires massive amounts of denial.
The UCI has absolutely no jurisdiction to order an autopsy. It's entirely in the hands of the Qatari and Belgium authorities and the legal requirements in place in their own countries. These vary enormously in each national state.
The term "natural causes" as a cause of death covers sudden adult death syndrome.0 -
There was an article about heart diseases in young men in Cycling Weekly not long ago:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/ ... 68415.html0
