Anybody not wear a helmet? Discuss....

prawny

I'm hoping in this context it's more this:

hu-bris
–noun excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance.


Rather than:

hubris

in Classical Athenian usage, the intentional use of violence to humiliate or degrade. The most famous example was the case of Meidias, who punched the orator Demosthenes in the face when the latter was dressed in ceremonial robes and performing an official function. Hubris could also characterize rape. Hubris was a crime at least from the time of Solon (6th century BC), and any citizen could bring charges against another party, as was the case also for treason or impiety. (In contrast, only a member of the victim's family could bring charges for murder.)

:shock:

il_principe

prawny wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

prawny wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

I take your point Greg, but I stand by my stats, 20 years and never any need of a helmet.

Hmm that does remind me of the famous dale earnheart(sp?) quote something along the lines of I don't need to wear a HANS device I've racing for x number of years and I've never had a brain stem seperation. I can't find the original quote.

Not lecturing though like you say each to there own. Just be wary of tempting fate she hangs around with the pxncture fairy, vicious cows :evil:

I did my dissertation on hubris, don't worry fella I know what I'm doing.

Oh cool I was only thinking about hubris this morning - I was thinking I wonder what hubris actually means :oops: I shall look it up

Better still read Herodotus.

“Seest thou how God with his lightning smites always the bigger animals, and will not suffer them to wax insolent, while those of a lesser bulk chafe him not? How likewise his bolts fall ever on the highest houses and the tallest trees? So plainly does He love to bring down everything that exalts itself. Thus ofttimes a mighty host is discomfited by a few men, when God in his jealousy sends fear or storm from heaven, and they perish in a way unworthy of them...."

prawny

jashburnham

I feer I may bee under ejucated

greg66_tri_v2.0

walkernomore wrote:

Sorry - people put a helmet on their head, but at the same time make the world a more dangerous place for both themselves and (the bit that IS my business) for others by rendering themselves deaf/hearing impaired with earphones.

OK - understood.

But (a) it's a misleading suggestion to claim that all helmet wearers also wear headphones. I don't when I'm cycling, because I think it's borderline suicidal; and (b) wearing headphones whilst skiing is rather less of an issue because you're less dependent on using your hearing when skiing. I have tried skiing with an ipod, but found that the earpieces keep falling out, and it's a right PITA anyway if you're with other people (as I inevitably am) and want/have to talk to them.

Overall, from what I see, a very small minority of skiers/boarders have helmets and earphones, and a pretty tiny of minority of helmeted cyclists do.

If it's what's needed to persuade someone to try out a helmet though, I'm all for it.

il_principe

Oh dear I use an ipod while cycling and no helmet, arghhhhhh.

In fairness I can hear the traffic just fine. I'd never use those "in canal" 'phones.

How will I ever make it home tonight?

greg66_tri_v2.0

jashburnham wrote:

Oh dear I use an ipod while cycling and no helmet, arghhhhhh.

In fairness I can hear the traffic just fine. I'd never use those "in canal" 'phones.

How will I ever make it home tonight?

In fairness, I reckon you'll be fine.

The fact that the Grim Reaper is floating just above you probably stops any drivers getting too close

il_principe

Man am I going to feel like a tit if I get killed on the way home.

robmanic1

jashburnham wrote:

Man am I going to feel like a tit if I get killed on the way home.

Don't come on here bleating if you do!

lost_in_thought

Way to tempt fate...

I do listen to an ipod while snowboarding - I have some of those B&O headphones that hang on pretty well.

I need motivational music to generate extra bravery :shock:

il_principe

The Prince would make for a blinging Ghost Bike though.

greg66_tri_v2.0

jashburnham wrote:

The Prince would make for a blinging Ghost Bike though.

Damn!

I meant to get in first with "bagsy I have jash's Prince".

lost_in_thought

jashburnham wrote:

The Prince would make for a blinging Ghost Bike though.

I'll be hanging out between borough and pim this evening just in case..

walkernomore

Greg66 wrote:

walkernomore wrote:

If it's what's needed to persuade someone to try out a helmet though, I'm all for it.

Afraid I see that as a bit like getting someone to try smoking to wean themselves off chocolate.

But its good that you care!

il_principe

lost_in_thought wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

The Prince would make for a blinging Ghost Bike though.

I'll be hanging out between borough and pim this evening just in case..

Just so's you recognise me.

lost_in_thought

jashburnham wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

The Prince would make for a blinging Ghost Bike though.

I'll be hanging out between borough and pim this evening just in case..

Just so's you recognise me.

So you'll be wearing a helmet? :shock:

greg66_tri_v2.0

lost_in_thought wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

jashburnham wrote:

The Prince would make for a blinging Ghost Bike though.

I'll be hanging out between borough and pim this evening just in case..

Just so's you recognise me.

So you'll be wearing a helmet? :shock:

Haha - good catch!

iain_j

Gotcha

il_principe

dammit! On the plus side I made it home safe...

Christophe3967

jashburnham wrote:

dammit! On the plus side I made it home safe...

Well done, but I am just about to leave the office and take up the baton on behalf of the helmetless MP3ed commuters, so time still for the doomsayers... hope its stopped raining.

jimmypippa

here is a post about this, with some very impressive pictures of a Volvo that was written off, together with a cycle helmet, and the cyclist was OK...

badscience.net forum

I wear a helmet.

gb155

I should, but I dont

jedster

To support what Greg was saying about Whistler, I was there five or six years ago and most skiers were wearing helmets then. Almost all the good skiers were wearing helmets.

I bought a ski helmet soon after than and wear it nearly all the time when I'm skiing (exception would be when I'm pootling in very warm conditions, i.e. hardly ever).

I find ski helmets very comfortable. I'm glad of the protection tree-skiing, when it's rocky off-piste and on crowded pistes. I spend a lot more of my time off-piste than on piste but I generally think my biggest risk is being slammed into by some numpty on piste.

Recently a man was killed in Italy by a teenager skiing into the back of him and smashing an elbow into his head. Funnily enough there was a Scottish girl on TV this morning who was quite badly brain damaged when hitting her head while boarding (in the park). When I say quite bad I mean relearning to walk, talk, mental age of a child kind of thing. Horrid.

These incidents are very uncommon but if I can reduce the chance of something really nasty happening at low cost (financial and convenience) I generally do it.

I'm not risk averse (I ski off piste, climb, mountaineer, etc.) - but taking risk for no good reason seems silly to me (by the way, fun and buzz of these sports is a good reason to my mind). If wearing a helmet significantly detracted from my enjoyment of skiing or cycling then I would probably go without. It doesn't.

J

_Brun_

jimmypippa wrote:

here is a post about this, with some very impressive pictures of a Volvo that was written off, together with a cycle helmet, and the cyclist was OK...

badscience.net forum

I wear a helmet.

Having read the text accompanying the link, I personally think it's a really good example of helmets being bad. Poor chap might otherwise have had some sense knocked into him.

The_Darkness

I wear one because I consider my responsibilities, rather than just what is or isnt my right to do.

il_principe

I saw a bloke this morning that made all you helmet wearing hand wringers look like a bunch of amateurs. He was wearing one of these:



and one of these:



:roll:

wgwarburton

The_Darkness wrote:

> I wear one because I consider my responsibilities, rather than just what is or isnt my right to do.

There's a stack of assumptions underlying that statement. Starting with the exposure to risk and the effectiveness of your mitigation, running through the implication of other people's irresponsibility and touching on enforcement.

I think you may be starting from the wrong place, so it's little surprise that your conclusions are questionable!

Cheers,
W.

always_tyred

WGWarburton wrote:

The_Darkness wrote:

> I wear one because I consider my responsibilities, rather than just what is or isnt my right to do.

There's a stack of assumptions underlying that statement. Starting with the exposure to risk and the effectiveness of your mitigation, running through the implication of other people's irresponsibility and touching on enforcement.

I think you may be starting from the wrong place, so it's little surprise that your conclusions are questionable!

Cheers,
W.

Haven't you just applied all of the same assumptions, in your own sweet way?

wgwarburton

Always Tyred writes:

> Haven't you just applied all of the same assumptions, in your own sweet way?

Of course, but the key difference is that mine are correct and The_Darkness' are wrong! :-)

More specifically- you can look at the accident statistics and determine that cycling isn't particularly dangerous (hundreds of thousands of miles between KSIs, IIRC), at the experience of countries where helmets have been mandated (no significant drop in head injuries) and assess from there.
I don't have a problem with people wearing helmets, if they want to do so, what grates on me is the assumption that they are needed, that they are effective and that others are somehow shirking their reponsibilities by choosing not to.
Maybe if The Darkness would care to justify his starting point, I'd be less irritated. I might still think s/he's wrong, but at least we'd get away from the dubious assumption that it doesn't even need to be stated.

Cheers,
W.

lost_in_thought

WGWarburton wrote:

I don't have a problem with people wearing helmets, if they want to do so, what grates on me is the assumption that they are needed, that they are effective and that others are somehow shirking their reponsibilities by choosing not to.

+1!

Word to the wise - experience on the FG/SS thread shows that buns is always right, it just takes some of us longer to realise it.

bluesacs

Nice one warburton. Anyone consider the judge is wrong? He's made a silly assumption and extrapolated it. Hopefully some cycling organization will challenge this.