Drug Testing: Rugby players beyond reproach...???

andyrac

Couldn't quite believe what I was reading - are they really that naive?

It's the second half of the article...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyu ... -pack.html

DaveyL

That's made my day. What a hoot.

woodford2barbican

Don't think much of the RFU anyway.

When my wife and her family were racially abused by members of a North West rugby club they did not even respond to a letter I sent them.....then again nor did the local MP either.

warrior4life

I work in a gym and pretty much every guy who has a decent physique is on something,
My girlfriend does physio on a superleague team and i have friends who are doctors who've played rugby to a high standard and both will admit about the poor drug testing... it is a joke in most sports, most prmiership football teams have italian doctors as well.

Monty Dog

Heads in the sand or what? I played rugby at junior level and now when I see the physiques of professional players, the player of 25 years ago are weenie in comparison. You only have to look at the Balco evidence to understand the 'stack' that power athletes are taking - including EPO to sustain the training intensity - to say that rugby doesn't have an issue is a joke - just because no-one's tested positive is a sign of being clean is an excuse regularly peddled by others....

redddraggon

Monty Dog wrote:

Heads in the sand or what? I played rugby at junior level and now when I see the physiques of professional players, the player of 25 years ago are weenie in comparison.

25 years ago rugby was amateur, now it's professional, so there's more time and money for more effective training (and yes, possibly doping).

If I spent my day training I would no issue with getting the physique without doping - some people are just like that - I'll never get a proper cyclists physique no matter how hard I try.

afx237vi

I doubt you'd get a forehead shaped like [insert name of very prominent international rugby coach] from working out in the gym. Unless he does bench presses with his forehead...

leguape

redddraggon wrote:

Monty Dog wrote:

Heads in the sand or what? I played rugby at junior level and now when I see the physiques of professional players, the player of 25 years ago are weenie in comparison.

25 years ago rugby was amateur, now it's professional, so there's more time and money for more effective training (and yes, possibly doping).

If I spent my day training I would no issue with getting the physique without doping - some people are just like that - I'll never get a proper cyclists physique no matter how hard I try.

So Percy Montgomery went from being a reed of a fullback to a transveld ox in a summer naturally? Sorry, but I don't buy it. Especially when you see the number of postives they've returned for things like cathine in recent years and steroids.

blazing_saddles

Well, if Rafa OP Nadal can come out with, "Tennis is clean, so I don't want WADA knowing where I am. I'm thinking of joining the Flemish action against them." the RFU are simply following suit.

Meanwhile, cycling will continue to get it in the neck from the dope hungry media.

The blame lies with the lazy journalista, who are happy the print this nonsense, while in pursuit of every, unsubstantiated cycling rumour.

leguape

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Well, if Rafa OP Nadal can come out with, "Tennis is clean, so I don't want WADA knowing where I am. I'm thinking of joining the Flemish action against them." the RFU are simply following suit.

Meanwhile, cycling will continue to get it in the neck from the dope hungry media.

The blame lies with the lazy journalista, who are happy the print this nonsense, while in pursuit of every, unsubstantiated cycling rumour.

If it was the case then Brandan Gallagher could have happily left out the second half of the article. He didn't. You don't damn the big names by slight, you damn them by their own pronouncements.

drewfromrisca

I have a number of friends back home who have played 'top level' rugby and have all admitted to me that they use the 'juice' as they effectively call it. One has also admitted to snorting cocaine before going onto the pitch to get pyhsced up!!! I told him that the buzz only lasts minutes but he laughed it off and said by that time the ephedrine kicks in!!! :shock:

Kléber

First, on the article, it is very stupid for the authorities to announce they won't be testing for something. It would be like the police saying "this evening we will not be patrolling the town centre", a green light to looters and in this case, an invititation to cheats to take EPO. But of course EPO famously disappears out of the system within days so an idiot would only be caught.

On wider doping, as afx237vi hints, abuse of steroids and especially Human Growth Hormone doesn't just make muscles grow, it makes your bones grow. Feet and hands get bigger - useful if you're swimming, more so than cannabis - but you also get new bone tissue, characterised by the brow and the jawbone changing shape. You see some players who stop growing but suddenly bulk up and sadly also see their facial features change, the brow and jawbone changes. Look up some famous rugby players for "before" and "after" shots, compare some of the 2003 World Cup winners to today if you want.

Anyway, where's the surprise. Besides, this is a cycling forum. I could suggest a Tour de France winner who developed a curiously longer jaw during his career but I'd get branded a "hater".

blazing_saddles

leguape wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Well, if Rafa OP Nadal can come out with, "Tennis is clean, so I don't want WADA knowing where I am. I'm thinking of joining the Flemish action against them." the RFU are simply following suit.

Meanwhile, cycling will continue to get it in the neck from the dope hungry media.

The blame lies with the lazy journalista, who are happy the print this nonsense, while in pursuit of every, unsubstantiated cycling rumour.

If it was the case then Brandan Gallagher could have happily left out the second half of the article. He didn't. You don't damn the big names by slight, you damn them by their own pronouncements.

To clarify. The nonsense refers to Nadal's stance, covered in the media.
The lazy journalism refers to cycling being historically the easiest prey.
Investigative journalism seems absent, these days.
As for the article, a couple of luke warm paragraphs at the end, is hardly in the same league as the stuff that gets directed at cycling.
I can't see it making a ripple on a pond, outside of here.

iainf72

leguape wrote:

So Percy Montgomery went from being a reed of a fullback to a transveld ox in a summer naturally? Sorry, but I don't buy it. Especially when you see the number of postives they've returned for things like cathine in recent years and steroids.

In SA in the mid-90's rugby was routinely refered to as "drugby" because of the use of PED's.

No test for EPO means we'll see a team become dominant with superior endurance over the next few years. Of course, it'll all be down to training technique etc.

cougie

Where is Kimmage when you need him eh ?

nferrar

Perhaps they're bluffing and will announce blood tests at the last minute, otherwise yeah they're pretty naive

colint

cougie wrote:

Where is Kimmage when you need him eh ?

Seems he's only happy to put the knife into cycling. I'd love to see him pursue other sports with the same vigour.

blazing_saddles

colint wrote:

cougie wrote:

Where is Kimmage when you need him eh ?

Seems he's only happy to put the knife into cycling. I'd love to see him pursue other sports with the same vigour.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, but in reference to jouralists in general.
Cycling always makes the doping banner headlines.

Whereas, I had to go searching for this:-
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/03022009/ ... tests.html

They haven't been named and it was back in December. All hush-hush.

Kléber

To be fair, you can point the finger at cycling and get away with it simply because pro racing has been full of scandal. Riders were testing positive every month and each year sees some of the biggest names taken down. This just isn't the case in other sports, especially since HGH abuse can't be tested. Clearly a bold newspaper or website could publish a picture of a player at age 25 and then age 30 and highlight some changes in their facial structure but this again is not proof.

Put another way, you can write easy attacks on cycling because so many get caught. There's no smoking gun in other sports.

colint

We're an easy target I suppose, but that doesn't say much for the journalistic abilities of Kimmage, Walsh etc. If they are so anti doping as they claim, why aren't they fighting the good fight across sport in general. Why just cycling ? Because it's easy ?

calvjones

colint wrote:

We're an easy target I suppose, but that doesn't say much for the journalistic abilities of Kimmage, Walsh etc. If they are so anti doping as they claim, why aren't they fighting the good fight across sport in general. Why just cycling ? Because it's easy ?

Because, perversely, they have a soft spot for cycling so care more? Just a thought.

colint

No, don't buy that. Kimmage does nice friendly interviews with athletes from lots of other sports, so why not some mud slinging as well ? I think he just goes after the easy target, if he cared as much about the sport as he claims he'd be highlighting that it's not just us, but we're the only people doing anything about it.

I'm not a fan, as you can guess

GyatsoLa

Blazing Saddles wrote:

colint wrote:

cougie wrote:

Where is Kimmage when you need him eh ?

Seems he's only happy to put the knife into cycling. I'd love to see him pursue other sports with the same vigour.

That's exactly the point I was trying to make, but in reference to jouralists in general.
Cycling always makes the doping banner headlines.

Whereas, I had to go searching for this:-
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/03022009/ ... tests.html

They haven't been named and it was back in December. All hush-hush.

The reason journalists put the knife into cycling, while refusing to look at rugby or tennis or soccer is simple - its down to access and power. Only the specialist cycling magazines are dependent on access to the teams and riders, so only they have turned a blind eye to what is going on. But if a major cycling team was to say to the Sunday Times or Mail or whatever 'don't publish that story, or we'll not give your journalists any more access or any more little 'exclusives', well, the editor would laugh in their faces. But if the same was to happen with a premier league football team, or the England Rugby Team... the editor would insist the journalist be on his knees in apologies, saying 'oh, of course we won't publish that little story about your association with Dr ***, now when can we please have that heard to heart interview with the captain we were promised?'

The use of drugs in rugby is rife - even at schoolboy level. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that suggests EPO and other drugs are used as a matter of course in the training programs of several top teams (when Arsene Wenger said this openly about 5 years ago, it recieved almost no media attention apart from in the Guardian). But any major sports journalist tackling this will find that it could well be the last story he ever writes, thats the reality of life in a big newspaper. But minority sports like cycling or power events are fair game, because they simply don't have the clout to stop the stories.

disgruntledgoat

I've been banging the "power and access" drum above for years now, it's absolutely correct.

Remeber Chelsea's blood spinning to treat injuries? Juve's doctor recieving a suspended sentance for doping players "without their knowledge" (yeah, right)? I'm a huge fan of Super League but don't doubt for a minute that hormonem steroid and EPO abuse are rife. The official DVD of one of the Tri-Nations series shows GBs doctor injecting Paul Deacon with god knows what during an injury break in a game. And he doesn't even ask what it is. Just rolls up his sleeve.

Or what about Greg The Canadian who when caught with nandrolone in his system got off on claiming the LTA had simply left big open jars of supplements in the locker room for top pros to dip into like sweeties?

Fact is, teh general public don't want, unless forced to, to think about such things. We were forced to confront the idea that a large part of our sporting heritage was built upon lies by Festina etc. We are, also, a small fry sport. There is no way the 6 nations, the Champions League et al are going to risk that kind of negative publicity amongst their biggest stars.

andyrac

The doubled standards & hypocrisy is quite sickening - I speak as someone who follows Rugby Union, and used to be a Sale season ticket holder. While Cycling, in particular gets it in the neck - the other 'big' sports pay lip service and ride roughshod over such issues. Then make out they're clean.
Sundays Aussie Open final - and Nadal puts his win down to his increased fitness - I suppose it perfectly reasonable. But due to 'Operacion Puerto' shouldn't questions be asked.....


I'm fairly new-ish to Cycling, but this issue makes me want to vomit and I'd defend the sport over any other. Naive..?? Possibly....

slojo

This weekend's Observer Sport magazine just about summed it up.

Not only did they invite Rio Ferdinand to act as a guest editor, but he then listed Diego Maradona as number one in his top ten favourite footballers.

Presumably next month's edition will be edited by Rasmussen who will name Landis as his all-time hero. Or perhaps Christine Ohuruogu will eulogise Marion Jones.

timoid.

Maradona is also my number one favourite footballer. Drugs had nothing to do with his genius.

Ferdinand is probably only guilty of a bit of charlie and what pray tell did Boonen get for the same offence.

blazing_saddles

Here's a baseball beauty, fresh off the press.
Barry Bond's 2003 re-tests show up "The Clear".
Oh don't you just love the idea of retro-testing....

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseb ... eved_.html

Birillo

cougie wrote:
Where is Kimmage when you need him eh ?

Seems he's only happy to put the knife into cycling. I'd love to see him pursue other sports with the same vigour.

He has (to his credit) tried to investigate the other sports people involved in Operacion Puerto. He didn't get anywhere, but he did try. My guess is that he's as sceptical about football, rugby, tennis etc as you and I are, but he needs proof and an editor who's prepared to publish it.

DaveyL

I think Walsh wrote a piece about Michelle de Bruin after her 1996 Olympic success.

CyclingBantam

Sorry to hijack this a touch but a while ago a picture was posted of a 'female' athlete from the '90's who may or may not have taken so many hormone drugs 'she' looked like a bloke in a wig. Does anyone know her name? I have searched for the last 30 mins and can't find a thing! :?