How to 'train' for a fast start to a club run?

Pork Sword

I ride with a local group of guys on a Tuesday evening 'easy' ride... a lot of the guys who turn up are 'racers' and consequently these 'fun' rides turn into a bit of a hammer-fest! I - along with one or two others - always struggle with the pace during the first 30 minutes or so and invariably find ourselves hanging off the back in no-man's land trying desperately to get back on the back of the bunch. Which is practically impossible! I'm sure that I would cope better with the pace they set if I'd had the chance to 'warm-up' so-to-speak as I find myself handling a faster pace better towards the end of the ride - on those rare occasions when the 'fast' guys take pity on us and wait at the brow of hill etc..

What I need to know is: what would I need to do to accustom my body to riding fast from the start of the ride?

C-S-B

how do you get to the start? Perhaps you could cycle to the start and then be warmed up already?

Or tell them to chill for 10 minutes while people warm up?!

Pork Sword

I ride about 10 minutes to the start but then we stand around chatting for 10 minutes before getting a crack-on. The guys who race are obviously in a better state of fitness and are accustomed to a fast start, but as I don't race and my fitness could be better I tend to suffer more. I just want to be able to hang-on at the start and enjoy the ride more as continually getting shelved off the back is getting to be just a tad frustrating as I know its only a couple of m.p.h. difference...

cougie

You need to be warmed up for the start. So 10 mins easing yourself into it and then some short intervals. Dont hang round for 10 mins at the start - you'll just cool down - so either arrive a bit later or ride up and down the road.

markos1963

Get yourself nice and warm before and at the start get up near the front. Not only will you be able to dictate the pace but its always easier to hang on near the front than to try and catch up.

oldwelshman

As others have said, warm up first, I often ride 15 miles to ride with my mates.
By the way a couple of miles an hour differnce is a lot!!

Alex_Simmons/RST

Or start off before they do and let them catch up by which time you'll be ready for them.

Of course you could do the training to become faster in the first place.

Or find a more suitable group to ride with.

Pork Sword

Ok guys, thanks for your feedback.

I suppose there's only one way to ride with 'faster' guys and that's to ride faster! :shock:

Failing that, I'll have to either warm up properly before the ride, get to the front of the group and dictate the pace until I feel more comfortabe or ask them to slow down a bit. :?

Alex_Simmons/RST

The best thing with groups rides is to check your ego in at the door when you leave home. If the pace is not suitable for you, then let them go (or ride away) and get some sensible training done instead.

shockedsoshocked

If you want to stay with the group try and focus on sticking to the wheels of the rider in front of you. Once you lose contact you have to work twice as hard to get back on their wheel.

I've found this out on my club runs, especially when climbing (enough to not do it anymore). If I can stick to the wheel on climbs once the road levels out again I can get pulled along by the group anyway and recover.

Although a few months of having to chase the group down certainly did me some good. Now they're chasing me down

Pork Sword

I know we should all put egos aside when attempting to get fit but isn't cycling in a group all about Ego? I just know that there's a faster-paced rider lurking somewhere inside me - hopefully its just a case of working my body over and above its 'comfort' zone for a few weeks until I get up to speed. We shall see...

Nelson Longflap

Pork Sword wrote:

I ride with a local group of guys on a Tuesday evening 'easy' ride... a lot of the guys who turn up are 'racers' and consequently these 'fun' rides turn into a bit of a hammer-fest! I

If this ride is advertised as easy, then these guys seem to be insecure poseurs. I've more or less given up doing club-rides because of people doing this. Either lay down the rules and tell them that they're riding too fast, or get your own group together where you set the agenda. For me, group riding is about avoiding the monotony of long solo rides (unless it's a chaingang), and certainly not about ego.

Failing that, and if you still can't face the shame of being shelled out the back, see if there are any "criterium" ( aka crit) circuits near you from British Cycling. If there are, then get a bronze membership, and give one a go.They are usually eyeballs-out straight from the off, and you will get dropped the first few times - a rite of passage! The best way to ride at race speed is to race: you seem to be looking for a shortcut

yogi

Pork Sword:

The ride is meant to be split into 2 rides with a fast group and a slow group as it's advertised, as far as I'm aware it's not supposed to be a 'Fun Ride' - it's training. There is no way that everyone will be able to ride together in one group that's why there are 2.

At the moment there are the racing boys and girls who have raced right through the winter, mountain bike and cyclocross, and are now looking to peak for the early Springtime Pursuits (which start in February I think). There are some fairly big ego's at the front, I won't name names but I'm sure you know who, plus it's always going to be difficult to control 20 odd riders.

I'll be honest that a lot of the time at the start, I am on the front attempting to control the pace but once the first climb is reached, which let's face it in Devon is always very soon, the 'race-heads' are off. I managed to hold onto the wheels on Tuesday night but only just. If you can hang-on and go through the pain on the climbs the pace eases off over the top and then it's quite easy just following the wheels and recovering for the next climb. I know that's easier said than done.

The way to ride with the fast group is to do some interval training, i.e. do hill repeats and increase power to weight ratio. Hill intervals will increase your power and recovery. It must also be remembered that these riders are fairly lithe which also helps.

There's a steady ride this Saturday morning at 10am just like the 'Fun Ride' last Saturday. No race-heads and a guaranteed steady pace that is all about 'getting the miles' in for everyone riding as one group.

It never gets easier, you just go faster - Greg LeMond

Pork Sword

Thanks for your response Yogi.

It wasn't my aim to attack the rides and general ideas outlined with the Yogi's and I agree completely that a good power-weight ratio is key to increased performance on hilly rides (that will be addressed this year - hopefully!) However, I along with the usual 'slower' riders would appreciate it if the 'race-heads' would just hold back a bit on the first climb as we never seem to get the chance to test ourselves or improve - or see you again after the first 5 minutes into a 2 hour plus night ride! :? I'm sure that we'd improve and hold the wheels for longer if things dropped back a notch or two - at least until the start of Spring...

I know the idea of having 2 rides - a fast ride to allow the racers amongst us to get some speed in their legs and a slow ride to encourage newcomers and allow those who would appreciate an easier time etc is a sound one and doesn't need to be changed much. But, we don't all race, and the 'slow' group usually numbers around 4 whilst the 'fast' group numbers near 20 means that us 'slower' guys would rather ride in a bigger group down all those dark, and sometimes dangerous Devon roads and to have certain egotistical guys turn up and make the ride into more of a suffer-fest than a training ride is a bit much sometimes (I wasn't the only guy moaning about this Tuesday). I thought the whole concept behind the Yogi's was to be an informal group of like-minded guys/gals who rode together for 'fun' and to 'train' for Sportives etc. I didn't think it was a Racing club and that's what attracted me...

Anyway, enough of my self-pity - I know that won't get me anywhere and the only way to get faster is to train harder and increase one's power-to-weight ratio.

I look forward to lots more rides in hilly Devon soon. I'll be there Saturday come rain or shine.

P.S. You can''t go wrong with Greg Lemond's hard-earned wisdom in my opinion

yogi

When YOGi was formed 20 years ago everyone raced MTB's and we've always had a reputation for hard riding, particularly on our Tuesday night ride, whether it be road or mountain bike. This is one of the reasons that we started doing easy Saturday rides (road and MTB), so that newcomers would have a gentle introduction to group riding.

Unfortunately our Tuesday slower ride leader, Geoff, has been out of action for a few months following his accident but I understand that Steve C has made arrangements to address this issue following your comments. I also expect that once the better weather and lighter evenings arrive the number of people taking part in the slower evening ride will increase and there will be a large group happy to ride steadily.

I think it is unreasonable to expect the racers to hold back on training intensity until the Spring as they need to be race fit for February 16th and they won't get there if they don't push themselves. However, I will also have a word with the whole group (no names metioned) and we will agree to ride 'piano' up the first climb.

Thursday night's ride is usually a slightly more relaxed experience as most of the younger racers do some alternative training.

Anyway I will stop now before we frighten everybody away.

Pork Sword

As always Yogi, a reasonable and considered response! Thank you!

I think I've made my point, and appreciate your attention and willingness to accommodate those of us who can't, for whatever reason ride fast-tempo up every hill ala Armstrong et al.

I really enjoy the YOGI rides and usually, its one of the highlights of my week. If things go a little steadier up the first climb for a while I'm sure I'll enjoy them all the more!

Some good knews on the Geoff front - he'll be back in the saddle within the next week or two so that's great.

Your comments regarding the race guys are understandable, and it would be entirely wrong to let the wishes of the few over-ride those of the many. I just hope the weight-loss and fitness regime I've got planned over the next few months comes to fruit as I'd love to be able to hack-it with the 'fast' guys up hill and down dale. Only time will tell if the body's as willing as the mind on that front though! :shock:

In the mean-time, I'm doing my level-best to encourage as many cycling female (and male!) students as I can to tag-along on a YOGI ride so, hopefully, the numbers turning out on the 'slower' group ride will increase a bit

I harbour no hard-feelings and must point out that most - if not all - of the guys and gals who ride with the YOGI'S are really friendly, fun-loving and down to earth and long may it continue.

yogi

Thanks Pork Sword. No hard feelings here and thanks for the comments. If you have any further thoughts just email them to me or Steve.

Good news about Geoff, we've all missed his sense of humour. And yes we do seem to be getting a lot of women joining up which is very encouraging.

Hope to see you tomorrow for a relaxed ride where we can actually manage to talk!!! Cheers.