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Le grand cycle lane

artaxerxesartaxerxes Posts: 612
edited January 2009 in Commuting chat
Apologies for posting something from the Standard, but apparently UK and French local councils are getting together to plan a London-Paris cycle lane (apart from the Channel of course)

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23612149-details/Le+grand+cycle+lane%3A+218+miles+from+Paris+to+London/article.do

Bit worried by the Croydon bit though, a lot of the French cyclists might turn back there before getting to London :)
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  • hisokahisoka Posts: 541
    That sounds cool, I'd give it a go!
    "This area left purposefully blank"
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  • That sounds like a good one to me. Now lets stop wasting money on on stupid things........
    The doctor said I needed to start drinking more whiskey. Also, I’m calling myself ‘the doctor’ now
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    I think this a radical but brilliant idea!

    I think he can be a bit of a buffoon but I like Boris Johnson, he makes me laugh.... (I didn't vote for him or Ken though).
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • marchantmarchant Posts: 362
    I think the real challenge will be getting enough broken glass to cover it :?
  • prj45prj45 Posts: 2,208
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    II think he can be a bit of a buffoon but I like Boris Johnson, he makes me laugh.... .

    Note he's got nothing to do with this, the Standard have just put his picture on the story to "donut" him. Makes me retch.
  • Part of the route has been in place for a while, the avenue vert currently runs 30k or so from dieppe towards paris. It does follow an old railway but ends where the railway ends.

    I rode something close to the proposed route with a few fiends last summer. We didn't follow the UK side of the route as it's awful, we took something close to the L2B route instead.

    On the french side, I'm not sure if they are planning to make the whole route cycles-only, but I does not really matter as riding on the roads in france is a real joy.
  • prj45 wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    II think he can be a bit of a buffoon but I like Boris Johnson, he makes me laugh.... .

    Note he's got nothing to do with this, the Standard have just put his picture on the story to "donut" him. Makes me retch.

    Not sure what the term "donut" means but the Bog Standard, as I like to refer to it (and I mean that in both senses of the word "bog") is an awful rag. It bigged up Boris as part of its anti-Livingstone agenda prior to the elections and has been an apologist for Boris ever since. Boris, it appears, can do no wrong and is worthy of credit for everything whether he is involved or not. So much for a Fourth Estate and free press
    Pain is only weakness leaving the body
  • Having got my rant out of the way...

    I like the idea of a London to Paris car free route. If I work really hard now, I may just be fit ienough by 2012 to cycle it :lol: I've looked at the map and it's all down hill :roll:
    Pain is only weakness leaving the body
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    prj45 wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    II think he can be a bit of a buffoon but I like Boris Johnson, he makes me laugh.... .

    Note he's got nothing to do with this, the Standard have just put his picture on the story to "donut" him. Makes me retch.

    Not sure what the term "donut" means but the Bog Standard, as I like to refer to it (and I mean that in both senses of the word "bog") is an awful rag. It bigged up Boris as part of its anti-Livingstone agenda prior to the elections and has been an apologist for Boris ever since. Boris, it appears, can do no wrong and is worthy of credit for everything whether he is involved or not. So much for a Fourth Estate and free press

    The fact that the Stanjdard is free to back Boris is proof of the freedom of the press. If the press were not free, then it would be forced to back the ruling party & their candidate.
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
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  • cougiecougie Posts: 22,512
    I'm all for bike routes - but wouldnt it be better to improve ours before doing one thats not really going to get that much traffic ?
  • prj45prj45 Posts: 2,208
    spen666 wrote:
    The fact that the Stanjdard is free to back Boris is proof of the freedom of the press. If the press were not free, then it would be forced to back the ruling party & their candidate.

    That's fair enough , but it doesn't make it any more palatable.

    Boris despite advertising himself as pro cycling has actually donw more to harm it than anybody I've known, despite all the bigging up it about bikes it appears he's a public transport hating pro car tory.

    Donuting is putting someboy's face next to something positive in the hope that a bit of shine will rub off. even though they've nothing to do with the focus of the piece.
  • spen666spen666 Posts: 17,709
    prj45 wrote:
    spen666 wrote:
    The fact that the Stanjdard is free to back Boris is proof of the freedom of the press. If the press were not free, then it would be forced to back the ruling party & their candidate.

    That's fair enough , but it doesn't make it any more palatable....
    thats the whole point about freedom of the press. ie freedom to print that which doesn't conform to your approved views.

    If the press only posted what you thought palatable, then where is the freedom?


    I may disagree with your views, but I support your right to hold such views
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
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  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    prj45 wrote:
    Boris despite advertising himself as pro cycling has actually donw more to harm it than anybody I've known, despite all the bigging up

    How has he harmed cycling?
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • biondinobiondino Posts: 5,990
    The motorcycles in bus lanes thing? The reduction of the congestion charge zone and price?
  • spen666 wrote:
    prj45 wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    II think he can be a bit of a buffoon but I like Boris Johnson, he makes me laugh.... .

    Note he's got nothing to do with this, the Standard have just put his picture on the story to "donut" him. Makes me retch.

    Not sure what the term "donut" means but the Bog Standard, as I like to refer to it (and I mean that in both senses of the word "bog") is an awful rag. It bigged up Boris as part of its anti-Livingstone agenda prior to the elections and has been an apologist for Boris ever since. Boris, it appears, can do no wrong and is worthy of credit for everything whether he is involved or not. So much for a Fourth Estate and free press

    The fact that the Stanjdard is free to back Boris is proof of the freedom of the press. If the press were not free, then it would be forced to back the ruling party & their candidate.

    A free press conforming to the fourth estate model would provide balanced reporting - while accepting that all reporting is subjective and framed by the pre-concieved ideas of the author and proprietor. The fact is that the standard has monopoly on London wide news and uses it to promote its own causes and then to defend those it pushes into power without providing the public with any meaningful or balanced facts upon which it (the public) can make its own judgements.
    Pain is only weakness leaving the body
  • iain_jiain_j Posts: 1,941
    marchant wrote:
    I think the real challenge will be getting enough broken glass to cover it :?

    Exactly what i thought :D
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    biondino wrote:
    The motorcycles in bus lanes thing? The reduction of the congestion charge zone and price?

    I was discussing this with my Uncle, he said that they had a trial run (his job, demands that I believe him) and said that during that time there were no increase in accidents.

    Is there any proof that there has been an increase in accidents?

    I don't see the reduction of the congestion charge zone and price as a bad thing. But then I'm not clear on what Boris did. If he reduced the cost or stopped an increase in price and or if he stopped the congestion zone from covering more of London then I applaud that action. Increasing the Congestion Zone almost amounts to the road pricing suggestion that arose recently.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • biondinobiondino Posts: 5,990
    I also don't know if the motorbikes in bus lanes will actively harm cyclists but some cyclists certainly perceive it as a negative; and reducing the coverage and cost of the congestion charge means more cars on the street which is never a good thing.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    biondino wrote:
    I also don't know if the motorbikes in bus lanes will actively harm cyclists but some cyclists certainly perceive it as a negative; and reducing the coverage and cost of the congestion charge means more cars on the street which is never a good thing.

    I don't think increasing the cost and coverage area of the congestion zone (further than what it extends to now) would reduce the amount of road users. These type of mechanisms have a maximum impact area anything beyond that and it looses impact.

    I want more people to cycle but bullying them out of their cars or charging them extortionate prices isn't going to help.

    As for motorcycles in the bus lane, theres a huge bus lane on the A23 strecth from Croydon to Brixton. As much as I didn't like motorcycles in the bus lane I didn't actually have any problems with them. I just didn't like it.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • Have to say I agree with DDD on this one.

    The government, BJ included, needs to look towards carrots rather than sticks - rewarding 'good' behaviour, cycling for example, rather than penalising drivers. Much as some on here disagree, there are some people who need to drive.

    I think Biondino is right about the perceived negative of bikes in bus lanes - I perceive it as a negative and I'm quite an experienced cyclist (I like to think) so god knows how someone new to cycling would see it.
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    edited January 2009
    I open this thread expecting to read LiT telling me that I'm wrong and Biondino is right....
    Have to say I agree with DDD on this one.

    :shock:

    F*CK ME! I nearly fell off my chair!

    That's the first time you've agreed with me on anything, ever.

    :shock:
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • DonDaddyD wrote:
    Have to say I agree with DDD on this one.

    :shock:

    F*CK ME! I nearly fell off my chair!

    That's the first time you've agreed with me on anything, ever.

    :shock:

    :lol::lol:

    Oi! I think I agreed with you once before.... :wink:
  • DonDaddyDDonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    I think Biondino is right about the perceived negative of bikes in bus lanes - I perceive it as a negative and I'm quite an experienced cyclist (I like to think) so god knows how someone new to cycling would see it.

    I just can't see it.

    A bus lane isn't a haven of safety from road vehicles.

    If you're a new cyclist and are about to commute psychologically your prepared to ride in the road alongside cars etc.

    Edit: In any case despite the many miles of bus lanes in London I'd argue that most cyclist spend a large portion of their commute on main roads that don't have bus lanes where the motorcycle in bus lane debate is void....
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • Nobody is suggesting that buses should be banned from bus lanes, and they're a lot more terrifying than a motorbike.

    Compared to a bus-driver, running behind schedule and nursing the pent-up, nigh on psychotic, rage that comes from suffering in the city traffic hour after hour your average Hell's Angel is a kitten loving, granny hugging softy.
    <hr noshade size="1">If BMWs are such good cars why do their drivers never trust their brakes as they approach an amber light?
  • I know there's been a thread or two on this in the past, and from that I know I'm not very good at expressing why I don't like the idea of motorbikes in bus lanes... a hell's angel wouldn't bother me - they like their bike, take pride in it, have a good deal of experience etc etc.

    What would bother me is little chav muppets or delivery drivers or moped couriers who only have a CBT to their name and treat london like a game of mariokart ducking and diving in and out of traffic with scant regard for those around them. All the (minor) incidents I've had with bikes have been the CBT types.

    I feel that bus lanes are a bit of a safe haven from cars, especially on my commute where there are precious few buses in them, and would rather there were not the CBT-mopeds in them.
  • I know there's been a thread or two on this in the past, and from that I know I'm not very good at expressing why I don't like the idea of motorbikes in bus lanes... a hell's angel wouldn't bother me - they like their bike, take pride in it, have a good deal of experience etc etc.

    What would bother me is little chav muppets or delivery drivers or moped couriers who only have a CBT to their name and treat london like a game of mariokart ducking and diving in and out of traffic with scant regard for those around them. All the (minor) incidents I've had with bikes have been the CBT types.

    I feel that bus lanes are a bit of a safe haven from cars, especially on my commute where there are precious few buses in them, and would rather there were not the CBT-mopeds in them.

    Yes there does seem to be an inverse relationship between the size of the bike and the competance of the rider. Although trainee cabbies in their little mopeds are ok :)
  • biondinobiondino Posts: 5,990
    Assuming their view isn't compromised by the f-off great big map they have plastered to the front of the moped!

    I'm actually more nervous about 900cc motorbikes thinking a 300 yard stretch of bus lane is a good place to get up to 80mph and me being in the way when they realise it isn't...
  • iain_jiain_j Posts: 1,941
    What would bother me is little chav muppets or delivery drivers or moped couriers who only have a CBT to their name and treat london like a game of mariokart ducking and diving in and out of traffic with scant regard for those around them. All the (minor) incidents I've had with bikes have been the CBT types.

    That would be an ace new SCR game :D I'll put a few shells and banana skins in my pockets tomorrow and give it a go.

    (I've been up late the last few nights playing it :wink: )
  • prj45prj45 Posts: 2,208
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    prj45 wrote:
    Boris despite advertising himself as pro cycling has actually donw more to harm it than anybody I've known, despite all the bigging up

    How has he harmed cycling?

    As Biondio said, motor cycles in bus lanes, scrapping of congestion charge.

    And to add cancellation of £25 gas guzzler charge, scrapping of funding for the London Cycle network, his pre election insistance that "bendy buses killed many cyclists each year" (when they don't), phasing out of bendy buses to be replaced by a third more vehicles, planned introduction of new opened backed bus, cancellation of gyratory calming schemes

    And he's a red light jumper too.
  • prj45prj45 Posts: 2,208
    spen666 wrote:
    The fact that the Stanjdard is free to back Boris is proof of the freedom of the press. If the press were not free, then it would be forced to back the ruling party & their candidate.

    Again, fair enough, but to do it in such a sycophantic unquestioning "pyongyang" way still makes me barf.

    Am I not allowed to say this?
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