Out of the saddle training help needed..

Marko1962

Just after some help if anyone would care to advise, besides actually riding out of the saddle what exercises could I do that will help me improve, perhaps in the gym or 'freehand' exercises if you know what I mean? I can ride OOTS for approx a minute before collapsing in a heap and would like to improve, its not my aerobic capacity that gives first but rather my muscles.

mclarent

basic question, but how are you supporting yourself when OOTS? which muscles is it that go?

mrushton

Why not just stay seated?

Marko1962

Why not just stay seated? Because I know I have a weakness that if improved upon will help me with my climbing,


mclarent, I support myself with my hands lightly placed on the tops or hoods and my body weight above the pedal axle. Looking at a muscle chat it looks like it could be the vastus medialis/lateralis, the muscles directly above the knee.

GeorgeShaw

I'm a relative newbie, but I think that this is just another area where you need to train. I believe that riding out of the saddle uses a different set of muscles - or at least it uses your muscles in a different set of proportions. So when you first try it, those muscles that are used more in that position will be relatively under-trained. Only training will bring them up to where you want them to be.

I found this when I tried the advice of a club colleague last year, when I asked him about improving my climbing. He told me to find a relatively long hill (about 1 km) of medium gradient (>6%), and to do repeats all at full effort, but in different ways. So maybe do the first repeat sitting with normal gearing and a normal cadence (75 for me), then the second repeat standing one gear higher, then the third sitting spinning (85+) in a lower gear.

The first few times I tried this (and right now as I'm relatively de-trained) I couldn't do the whole hill standing up. But as I got stronger and more trained, then so it became easier, and after a number of weeks I could do it OK. And it certainly worked for me. In fact maybe too much, as I started riding most short hills entirely out the saddle, and this seemed to de-train my seated muscles, so I struggled on longer steep hills. So I guess it's just a question of balance.

ColinJ

TBH - I also struggle to spend long periods standing up out of the saddle. The thing is, it isn't really as efficient to stand up, so as mrushton says - why do it?

I can think of 3 reasons -

(1) The kind of violent uphill accelerations you might want to make in a race are possibly more effective out of the saddle. I don't have any proof, but it feels like it.

(2) Changing position and stretching on the bike can ease a sore back.

(3) If you are on a very steep hill, over 20%, say, you might not be capable of actually riding the hill unless you stand up.

Case (1) - fair enough.

Case (2) - check your position on your bike and make sure that your core strength is okay.

Case (3) - perhaps fit lower gears?

Monty Dog

Contrary to general opinion, riding out of the saddle is nearly as efficient as seated - but effort can be slightly harder so you can tire yourself out quicker. The big advantage is when climbing long hills is that a brief respite out of the saddle can allow your muscles to recover. Likewise, you can generate more power out of the saddle, so useful for changes in pace or gradient when climbing - from my own experience I can generate an additional 30% of power out of the saddle - i can't even generate that degree of power in the saddle. In terms of training, there's nothing like doing back-to-back repeats on a suitable hill - vary your style, cadence, in the saddle, out of the saddle, gears, on the drops / on the hoods to build up your armoury of skills. In terms of gym work, a stepper gives a pretty good representation of working your quads and don't forget your core body and arms/shoulders too. Finally, if you have any inclination to race, if you can't get out of the saddle for explosive efforts you'll simply get left behind..

Marko1962

Thanks for all the advice you have all certainly given me a lot of good stuff to work on. There are a few hills around here that I can certainly use as GeorgeShaw and Monty Dog have suggested and I can see the soundness of hill repeats. ATM in all this bad weather I'm just working myself on my turbo trainer in the comforts of my kitchen to a TrainRight climbing DVD but cannot wait until we get some better weather so I can climb that hill...

Monty Dog, my gym has a few steppers that I can use, I normally use a cross trainer and get a good workout but the steppers? I usually don't see anyone using them but I'm definitely going to start using them.

The main reason I want to get better at climbing is obviously that it's something that I need to do and more worryingly and importantly have entered my first ever sportive the Cheshire Cat at the end of March so have an absolute immediate NEED to improve...

Colin J, I would fit lower gears but I'm more or less using the lowest possible with a compact and 12-27 cassette, I wouldn't mind a triple but I have what I have and want to work with that setup.

GeorgeShaw

Marko1962 wrote:

The main reason I want to get better at climbing is obviously that it's something that I need to do and more worryingly and importantly have entered my first ever sportive the Cheshire Cat at the end of March so have an absolute immediate NEED to improve...

It's also worth saying that it's not just climbing that will improve your climbing - if you see what I mean. I found that doing flat 2x20s made a big difference to my sustainable power - which helps a lot on longer hills. So my target this year is to get the correct balance of work, and to concentrate on quality riding rather than just the same old tempo rides.

Don't worry. if you put your mind and body to work, you will improve - the body is remarkable. I did my first sportive at the end of 2007, the Trans-Cambrian, at the age of 53, and was glad to finish. Last year I did 4 sportives and I'm getting close to getting into the top half (of all finishers). This year the target is to do a couple more, including one in the (lower) Alps, and to get into the top half.