Which is best lunges, squats or steps?

Shavedlegs

Adding a bit of weight training to my schedule, due to time constraints really. I keep reading conflicting reports or what to do or even whether there is any benefit regardless. Should I do lunges, squats or steps, or any other ideas?

Anonymous

Step ups with weights using a step height about the same as your crank lengths (for me 2x175mm = 35cm...

That's how I roll!

doyler78

Are leg weights really necessary for any cyclist other sprint track cyclists? Personally I don't think there's much, if anything, to be gained from it. I would spend more time doing stretching & core conditioning exercises such as crunches as these will have a direct impact on your ability to be able to recover from efforts more quickly and your on the bike comfort.

You may want to introduce weights during the winter if you are not cycling much and are doing more cross training however if you are cycling then lifting heavy leg weights is only likely to deaden your legs an make any on the bike efforts more difficult in which case why not just do the efforts on the bike with maximum effort.

Anonymous

I've seen a real improvement in my cycling since I started adding a Joe Friel weights program to my base and build periods...

doyler78

NapoleonD wrote:

I've seen a real improvement in my cycling since I started adding a Joe Friel weights program to my base and build periods...

I'm not familiar with Friel's stuff (bar periodization which is rather hard to get away from) however I lifted weights long before I even considered lifting a leg over the top tube and I personally have seen more improvement once I dropped the leg programmes and just concentrated on cycling. Though I will admit to doing calf raises once a week but that's only because they would look punny compared to the upper part of legs and I wanted a bit of proportion and they are done on the evening before my rest day so shouldn't have any impact on my riding.

I guess it just shows how different we all are.

dennisn

I cast my vote for squats. One of the best(and hardest) of any exercise known to man.
This is an exercise that builds strength throughout the entire body. Tough, tough stuff
but the best. I find that most people who put down squats generally don't have a good
reason for doing so and will simply say that they are "no good" when in reality they have probably tried them and found them too difficult. That's why they are the best, because they are the hardest.
How could they not help?

Dennis Noward

Hell below zero !

Yes squats are extremley good for working all the major muscles of the body but have to be done strictly as you can easily hurt yourself if done incorrectly.The safest way to do them is on a smith machine but you don't get quite the same benifit as with free weights.If your doing them specifically for cycling then you don't need to squat down so your knees are bent to 90 degrees but only bend your knees the same amount (angle) as you do when cycling.People will probably come up to you in the gym to say your doing it wrong but for cycling you only need to squat this far.P.S. NEVER drop down fast and BOUNCE at the bottom as this will wreck your knees :shock:

Anonymous

I would rather do squats than step ups but my gym seems to cater more for, how shall I put this? Social gym goers.
There is no squatting facility, the heaviest I can get on a barbell there is 50kg (110lb).
The reason I go to that gym is because it's free for me...

Roadie Rods

If you have access to a Swissball and some weights, you can do then very effectively against a wall, leaning against the ball with your back, with weights in each hand.

Alex_Simmons/RST

Shavedlegs wrote:

Should I do lunges, squats or steps, or any other ideas?

Ride your bike.

bahzob

NapoleonD wrote:

Step ups with weights using a step height about the same as your crank lengths (for me 2x175mm = 35cm...

That's how I roll!

Ditto this. Safer, especially if you dont have a spotter, since absolute weight you lift is less and movement is more limited/controlled. Suggest starting around 40-50% of body weight, doing 2 sets of 6-8 reps and increasing weights once comfortable with aim of getting to around 80-90% of body weight.

Monty Dog

For any gym work with heavy weights, get some instruction to make sure your position and technique is correct. There are certainly some gym/leg efforts that can help with power development and strength. A great exercise are 1.5 squats - do a full squat down to 90 degrees - come back half-way - return to 90 before pressing to complete the exercise. You don't need such a heavy weight and your legs will burn! This is popular with downhill skiers to develop power in a racing tuck

AssOs

I lifted weights during last winter with sqauts and deadlifts included in the program and in summer the hills very much easier. huge difference for me.

Currently doing gym work and lifting heavy 3 times a week. nice to do something different for a couple of months

cougie

dennisn wrote:

I cast my vote for squats. One of the best(and hardest) of any exercise known to man.
This is an exercise that builds strength throughout the entire body. Tough, tough stuff
but the best. I find that most people who put down squats generally don't have a good
reason for doing so and will simply say that they are "no good" when in reality they have probably tried them and found them too difficult. That's why they are the best, because they are the hardest.
How could they not help?

Dennis Noward

Is leg muscle usually the limiting factor ? I know for me - I'm struggling for breath long before my legs have given out. I think Boardman couldnt do very much weight stuff at all - but he's better than 99.9% of cyclists ? I vote for ride the bike - less chance of injury.

angelic upstart

None of them will make you stronger at turning yer gears,they will make you better at squats and lunges etc, much more chance of knee injury doing these.Get on yer bike and get some training done.Do some light upper body work if you feel like it over the winter.

bahzob

From this weeks CW - Sir Chris: My week in training: "Next week I'll do 2 gym sessions, 4 track sessions and a little bit on the road.....I'm still doing high reps in the gym at the moment. Reps come down but weight goes up as you come to competition to build max strength."

colint

I'd say it's different for track riders though who need an explosive power.

Nothing can beat riding the bike for getting better at riding the bike, but you still need to do some other conditioniong / strength work to keep you core strong. A weak core can cause all sort of injuries and problems

bahzob

It probably is different for track riders. However, given we are in winter another quote:
"For first strength workout after racing season I use weight of bar for sets & go through full range of motion for each exercise.....By late winter after I've been lifing steadily for 3 months here's what I can do.
Leg press 400lbs
Hamstring curl 80lbs
Leg Extension 120lbs
Biceps curl 50lbs
Abdominal crunches 200lbs per set
Bench press 125lbs"
Lance Armstrong.

Murr X

bahzob wrote:

It probably is different for track riders. However, given we are in winter another quote:
"For first strength workout after racing season I use weight of bar for sets & go through full range of motion for each exercise.....By late winter after I've been lifing steadily for 3 months here's what I can do.
Leg press 400lbs
Hamstring curl 80lbs
Leg Extension 120lbs
Biceps curl 50lbs
Abdominal crunches 200lbs per set
Bench press 125lbs"
Lance Armstrong.

If you believe Lance was doing that then you would believe anything.

A while back I spent several winters doing "cycling specific" weight training. What I really did was waste several winters when I should have been doing threshold and tempo work instead. I now do the latter with MUCH success.

If you want to be a top road racer then avoid the weights - its pretty much that simple.
Just don't neglect what really counts.

doyler78

I have to say that his stats are nothing impressive if you ask me. I wasn't far most of those when I did leg weight training several years ago (which as I've said I found to be redundant once I took up cycling). They aren't really big weights and most average people in my gym could manage those if they trained specifically on them. What that really tells me that if he does do them then all he is really doing is a conditioning rather building program. There's nothing that will bulk in them.

I guess the thing is that pros who are full time athletes have much more time than us mere mortals who have full time jobs and training do has to fit round that and everything else we have to do. For the pro in the winter when they probably aren't spending as much time in the saddle as they would during the race season may well include a weights program but I doubt it forms the backbone of any training they do. That will still be done on the bike, whether on the turbo or out on the roads. For us that have much more limited time then we have to make the most of that time and weight training is time which could be better spent on the bike or so I have found too.

Murr X

doyler78 wrote:

I have to say that his stats are nothing impressive if you ask me. I wasn't far most of those when I did leg weight training several years ago (which as I've said I found to be redundant once I took up cycling). They aren't really big weights and most average people in my gym could manage those if they trained specifically on them. What that really tells me that if he does do them then all he is really doing is a conditioning rather building program. There's nothing that will bulk in them.

I guess the thing is that pros who are full time athletes have much more time than us mere mortals who have full time jobs and training do has to fit round that and everything else we have to do. For the pro in the winter when they probably aren't spending as much time in the saddle as they would during the race season may well include a weights program but I doubt it forms the backbone of any training they do. That will still be done on the bike, whether on the turbo or out on the roads. For us that have much more limited time then we have to make the most of that time and weight training is time which could be better spent on the bike or so I have found too.

Nothing impressive at all for a lifter and even I had exceeded that when doing weights... BUT he *didn't* do them - end of.

Toonraid

Weights are great if done correctly but I would avoid squats due to high risk of injuries unless you have done several years of weight training and are looking to excel in track or sprinting and have exceeded the 3x weight limit on your leg press machine.

I like to do 3 months starting in November 3 times / week with 3 sets of 20 reps followed by a month of 3 x 12 followed by another month of 3 x 8 so that weight training is over in march giving plenty of time for muscles to adopt to road. I do however do a single weekly maintenance session of 3 x 20 throughout the year.

mclarent

Rather than weights, why not add some time on a step machine? Less risk of injury, kind of mimics out of the saddle riding, and shouldn't take too long "to exhaustion" if you set the resistance high enough

gkerr4

AssOs wrote:

I lifted weights during last winter with sqauts and deadlifts included in the program and in summer the hills very much easier. huge difference for me.

Currently doing gym work and lifting heavy 3 times a week. nice to do something different for a couple of months

good points I think - nice to do something different for a couple of months

build core strength some upper body work thrown in and you'll look great come the lesser-clothed summer months (or in your lycra for that matter!)

azzurribike

In the old days when I played hockey we would find a lengthy set of steps in a park where we would race up them, but you had to put both feet on each step, for you Poms in the cold weather stairwells will do. 5 repeats of 30 stairs at a cracking pace will get the blood pumping.

bahzob

If doing freeweights without spotter, a useful variant on squat is hack squat:
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBHackSquat.html

warrior4life

Pretty much all the pros do leg weights, single leg squats, leg press, deadlifts.
all will give you more leg power.
I would suggest only do it in the off season
http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstro ... kout/5189/

Im a personal trainer and i've trained cyclists before and ive found jumping squats for high reps 15+ give real power when accelerating up hills.
Ive also had a few bodybuilder friends come out on the bike in summer with me and ive never seen anyone in my cycling club have a 10 second burst of speed like them.

I would highly recommend weights starting in oct / nov time and through till late jan.
It takes around 12 weeks to see significant changes but they will come with consistent training.
The only thing that leads to knee injury is bad technique.

bahzob

warrior4life wrote:

Pretty much all the pros do leg weights, single leg squats, leg press, deadlifts.
all will give you more leg power.
I would suggest only do it in the off season
http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstro ... kout/5189/
......
I would highly recommend weights starting in oct / nov time and through till late jan.
It takes around 12 weeks to see significant changes but they will come with consistent training.
The only thing that leads to knee injury is bad technique.

Thanks for above. Couple of questions:
- Interesting to see the lance armstrong video. However re your last sentence is his technique OK? Thinking especially the step ups. I do these but step is 2xcrank length so 35cm high (means movement is pretty much what you do on a bike). Also do with more load (90% body weight).

The one he is using looks higher so much more flex in knee. If I did that my knees would be knackered.

- I'm near 50. 2007 I just used weights during winter season. Then I read some advice that "veterans" should continue weights through the year. I tried this 2008 and it seemed to work (at least no negative effect). Seemed to make me feel much sharper. Interested in views on whether the advice that oldies should weight train through the year chimes with your experience.

warrior4life

step ups are a hard exercise to get right, the reason he's doing them so high is because he can, it will give him strength through a bigger range of motion.
Try what lance is doing and you'll see how hard it is.

Weight training is good for everyone as long as you do it in a safe manner and with good technique.
Every athlete in every real sport will do some kind of weight training, the older you get the more you need it.
its amazing the changes you can make even in your 50's.
to many cyclists are against weight training and i have no idea why, it may not make youy that much better, but it certainly wont make you worse.

A little light training through the year never did anyone any harm.

Mettan

On the subject of "strong" guys sprinting, would be interesting to see Pudzianowski pushing something like a 150 inch gear for a lap (utterly trivial power requirements for him) - he's quite a "fit" and versatile "sportsman" and I'd wager with training could ride a track bike - obviously, the guy's apparently used AS in the past (so couldn't do anything legitamately), but for kicks it would be interesting to see what he could do.

Toonraid

bahzob wrote:

Thanks for above. Couple of questions:
- Interesting to see the lance armstrong video. However re your last sentence is his technique OK? Thinking especially the step ups. I do these but step is 2xcrank length so 35cm high (means movement is pretty much what you do on a bike). Also do with more load (90% body weight).

The one he is using looks higher so much more flex in knee. If I did that my knees would be knackered.

- I'm near 50. 2007 I just used weights during winter season. Then I read some advice that "veterans" should continue weights through the year. I tried this 2008 and it seemed to work (at least no negative effect). Seemed to make me feel much sharper. Interested in views on whether the advice that oldies should weight train through the year chimes with your experience.

The right technique for step-ups / downs is to have your thigh parallel to floor when raised on the block - of course it might be too high for some so good idea to start with shorter blocks but try to raise gradually till you get to optimum hight.

As for weight training, "Strength Maintenance" is recommended for masters and female cyclists after they have completed their winter weight training program. Usually one session/weeks of 3 x 20 at 90% throughout the season should do the job and if you have some heavy weeks (climbing or racing) you can give it a break during that week.