Trouble with cycling and money - I can't go back on quality.

DonDaddyD

Prior to my roadie I had a Giant M2 Escape. Excellent bike, did the job. I love cycling, going fast and far, I needed more so I bought my road bike. When I lost my seatpost I had to buy something better than what I had. AND this is the trouble with cycling its an ever improving hobby.

If my Fulcrum's went the way of the ghost, I couldn't buy a lesser wheel it would have to be something comparable or better. Same with my seatpost, same with my bike and I have the same problem with my tyres.

The original tyres that came with my bike saw me suffering something like 4 punctures in 6 days. So I bought GP4000s, they are fantastic. Grippy, with almost no difference in performance in wet/greasy conditions as dry conditions. Though they are race tyres the grip and puncture resistance make them great for commuting IMO.

But this creates a problem. I've wrapped GP4000s around my crappy stock Giant SCR3 wheels. So what the hell do I wrap my Fulcrums 7s in? I don't want another pair of GP4000s - variety is the spice of life. I tried to buy a pair of Gator skins, but I can't willingly live with having worse tyres on my Fulcrums than my previous wheels. Attack/Force and Ultremo's are excessive so what do I do?

If not to recommend wheels, do you find that you have to buy cycling equipment that is better than what you're replacing?

dodgy

I've been cycling long enough to have lost the desire for continual upgrades (even when simply replacing something that has broken), but I do buy only quality kit.

Regarding tyre choice, the GP4000s are great, possibly only matched by Michelin Pro Race 3s, give 'em a try.

Dave.

linsen

No offence, but I think it might be a male-dominated thing - the need for ever better "stuff", the newest lightest latest thing.

It's the same with every hobby though - not exclusive to cycling

The only thing I know is that it is worth spending enough to get something that will last.

After that I just make it last!

itboffin

Hey DDD I run conti's and recently Michelin and I have to say i'm very impressed by the Michelin grip, I think the conti's look better but the Michelin's win me over on grip, therefore confidence, my Trek came with Bontrager own brand and I hate them, they give me no confidence cornering or climbing and will be replaced this coming week.

In fact I've spent a fair amount of time today researching my next wheels & tyres and was very confused when calculating RPM/MPH for each width, rolling resistance, contact patches arhhh!

Punctures are I believe down to the luck of the draw.

greg66_tri_v2.0

linsen wrote:

No offence, but I think it might be a male-dominated thing - the need for ever better "stuff", the newest lightest latest thing.

It's the same with every hobby though - not exclusive to cycling

The only thing I know is that it is worth spending enough to get something that will last.

After that I just make it last!

Now hold on there li'l lady. I'm as in touch with my feminine side just as much as the next metrosexual, but couldn't empathize more with The Plight Of DDD.

Otoh, I did once pay a ton for a secondhand set of über cool wheels, which I sold 9 months later because I couldn't see that much benefit, and they were too expensive to have lying around not setting the world alight.

Oh, and +1 for the Pro3Race

lost_in_thought

Despite my 'burd' status, I'm very much the same. I will never knowingly buy something worse than what I have, has to be either comparable or better.

And that goes for everything, not just bikes.

itboffin

Greg66 wrote:

linsen wrote:

No offence, but I think it might be a male-dominated thing - the need for ever better "stuff", the newest lightest latest thing.

It's the same with every hobby though - not exclusive to cycling

The only thing I know is that it is worth spending enough to get something that will last.

After that I just make it last!

Now hold on there li'l lady. I'm as in touch with my feminine side just as much as the next metrosexual, but couldn't empathize more with The Plight Of DDD.

Otoh, I did once pay a ton for a secondhand set of über cool wheels, which I sold 9 months later because I couldn't see that much benefit, and they were too expensive to have lying around not setting the world alight.

Oh, and +1 for the Pro3Race

You keep you Londin metrosexual, i'm yokel me (well now anyways), Wiltshire where the men are men and the sheep hide.

DonDaddyD

linsen wrote:

No offence, but I think it might be a male-dominated thing - the need for ever better "stuff", the newest lightest latest thing.

It's the same with every hobby though - not exclusive to cycling

The only thing I know is that it is worth spending enough to get something that will last.

After that I just make it last!

Lol, Chris Rock (live at Hammersmith Apollo) would argue that Women can't go back financially and Men can't go back sexually....

But I'd sum up the not being able to go back on quality to the TV logic.

The TV logic:

Would you buy a smaller TV than the one you have now, even if it plays a better picture? You'll hate having to sit closer to the TV and you'll feel like you're missing half the image on a smaller TV. Your enjoyment will be reduced by the number of inches lost.

I can see it now, even if I ride at 25mph on cheapers tyres my subconcious will be telling me I'd have been doing 27/28mph on GP 4000s or something better...

I think its just in our nature once we've experienced something its near impossible getting the same levels enjoyment/satisfaction from something that provides less.

---

Michelin Pro 3

F-me they're expensive at around £28 aren't they? If this continues I may have to buy a more expensive bike to justify things...

Between my wheels, seat, seat post and tyres I've doubled the cost of my bike.... :shock:

artaxerxes

Same here, I can't go backwards on quality either, however since I started from such a low base (cheapo hybrid bike from LBS, all other kit from Decathlon/Aldi/Lidl) I can't really go backwards without picking things out of landfill sites.

Anyway, lets see how many of us carry on this lifestyle throughout the Great Depression of 2008-2011

itboffin

DDD try the Michelin Pro2 or the much cheaper Lithion, I use the later and rate them 10/10 for all weather performers.

£10 each from chainreactioncycles.com

DonDaddyD

linoue wrote:

Anyway, lets see how many of us carry on this lifestyle throughout the Great Depression of 2008-2011

The bike industry may actually be one of the more stable if not outright profitable industries during this time.

I agree with you though. My spending on bike gear is going to curb until riding to work becomes noticably profitable (to me) again.

biondino

Schwalbe Stevlios? Ultremos' little brother but still high quality and quick, I understand.

Having said that - you can upgrade to top level tyres for £50 a pair, compared to 10 times that for wheels or 30 times that for a frame, so why not? I love my Ultremos - grippy, light, fast and not a single puncture in 6 months of commutes and pleasure rides (including some alarming off-roading in the Isle of Wight) and would recommend them to anyone with a road bike.

DonDaddyD

Ultremo's had me all but sold except Wiggle (that does the tyre and tube kit) don't have any.

Am I the only person that thinks that race intended tyres make for better all year round commuting tyres?

Rich158

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ultremo's had me all but sold except Wiggle (that does the tyre and tube kit) don't have any.

Am I the only person that thinks that race intended tyres make for better all year round commuting tyres?[/quote]

Not at all. race tyres usually have the best puncture resistance for their weight, after all who wants to puncture in a race? As the carcus is very light weight this makes for more complient (flexible) tyres which grip better, give a better ride and roll faster. The only downside is the greater cost.

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

Ultremo's had me all but sold except Wiggle (that does the tyre and tube kit) don't have any.

Am I the only person that thinks that race intended tyres make for better all year round commuting tyres?

I use race tires all year round on the winter and summer bikes. Would use em on the commuter but I wanted white tires (tart) so use Vittoria's. Not nearly as good as Conti 4000S' but it's a short commute.

lost_in_thought

I use the tyres my bike came with... I've never changed the tyres on any bike I've owned.

:oops:

I came close on Gollum because they were almost worn out, but the ones on the Bowery seem to be made of sterner stuff. They're called Kendra. Not that that matters - I can't see you downgrading!

roger_merriman

i've left the "lets stick some tires on and see if i like it" on old red for now though it's been a while might give the old girl some nice supple tires.

i changed the tires and binned the OEM ones on the MTB as they where dreadful since i like riding in wet muddy places and most jack of all trade tires clog as soon as look at mud...

i also did change the tires on big green for protection against the fairy.

biondino

So can people remind me what I need to apply between a carbon seatpost and a carbon frame, and also what kind of torque wrench I should be buying for mutli-purpose carbon-bike-owning purposes? Ta!

il_principe

biondino wrote:

So can people remind me what I need to apply between a carbon seatpost and a carbon frame, and also what kind of torque wrench I should be buying for mutli-purpose carbon-bike-owning purposes? Ta!

This: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=26768

I don't bother with a torque wrench, seems like overkill really.

jonginge

jashburnham wrote:

biondino wrote:

So can people remind me what I need to apply between a carbon seatpost and a carbon frame, and also what kind of torque wrench I should be buying for mutli-purpose carbon-bike-owning purposes? Ta!

This: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=26768

I don't bother with a torque wrench, seems like overkill really.

Probably is overkill but I've got this one:
http://www.parker-international.co.uk/7 ... rench.html
and use this grip gel:
http://www.parker-international.co.uk/9 ... y-Gel.html

This may be a load of FUD-spreading rubbish but I remember reading somewhere that the warranties of some carbon fibre components are void if not fitted using a torque wrench...

jeffhope

I loved the line:

I tried to buy a pair of Gator skins, but I can't willingly live with having worse tyres on my Fulcrums than my previous wheels

:roll:

Isn't this a delightful example of what I believe is called "consumerism"? The conventional solution is I suppose to continuously work harder and harder to afford new, more elaborate tyres, seat posts, frames, hubs, rims, spokes, saddles, bottom brackets, chains, derailieurs, bottle cages, bar tape etc for the rest of ones' lifespan. You're certainly at the right place for seeking such advice!?

I think its just in our nature once we've experienced something its near impossible getting the same levels enjoyment/satisfaction from something that provides less.

Generally, I would rather prefer to think this depends on how simplistic the experience is. For example, I would agree with you that the first time you receive a 'thing', like a shiny new toy, or get the adrenalin rush from doing a bungee jump or something of that nature, then the enjoyment is at its' peak in the first instance. But I would suggest that if you take as a counterexample, say, learning to play a musical instrument (a complex task), then the satisfaction received can actually increase over time as you become proficient.

Another idea, taken from Buddhist philosophy, might be to work on ones' desires - to come perhaps to accept that the important thing with a bicycle is that you can ride it, and the brand of tyres is not very important?

If not to recommend wheels, do you find that you have to buy cycling equipment that is better than what you're replacing?

To be sure, I wouldn't much like to buy a replacement part that was clearly less suitable for its' intended function than what I was replacing, but as to buying 'bling', or putting much trust in some marketers' implicit claim that an upgrade in their product range is going to transform my enjoyment of cycling to unparalleled heights of fantasticness... Yeah, I think I'm a little over that

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

I use the tyres my bike came with... I've never changed the tyres on any bike I've owned.

:oops:

I came close on Gollum because they were almost worn out, but the ones on the Bowery seem to be made of sterner stuff. They're called Kendra. Not that that matters - I can't see you downgrading!

Thosee Kenda tyres (if they are the same as the those on the SCR are the devil span and I assure you, with no exaggeration or bombast, that you will be noticably faster, braver, quicker at accelerating and sure footed with a tyre upgrade.

simon_e

jeffhope wrote:

I loved the line:

I tried to buy a pair of Gator skins, but I can't willingly live with having worse tyres on my Fulcrums than my previous wheels

:roll:
Isn't this a delightful example of what I believe is called "consumerism"?

Yep. The sole purpose of advertisers & co. is to breed dissatisfaction so they get your money instead of you. Lighter wheels might be nice if you want to treat yourself (and the old ones are wearing out) but I still can't see how upgrading a seat post makes much difference. Ditto questions on here about 105 vs Ultegra mech.

Gatorskins aren't great tyres, so why not just put your favourite tyres on both bikes. I have Bonty Hard Case 28s on my SCR but can't get worked up about the weight penalty, they're just doing the job I ask of them. Maybe in the spring I'll switch to Rubinos, but there's no point while the roads are as bad as they are at the moment.

How about switching bikes or putting the old, 'slower' parts back on and see how much longer a commute or favourite loop takes? B*gger all, I suspect. A mate bought a new Cube Agree GTC w/Ultegra and Fulcrum 5s and Ultremos last summer. Lovely bike, it felt fast, he liked it. However, his 10 mile TT times on his beaten-up old Trek triple with cheap, worn Shimano wheels and basic tyres were only a few seconds slower.

I'm not saying you shouldn't appreciate upgrading or replacing bike bits. New things can provide incentive to train harder or ride more for fun. I just think people get carried away shaving a few grammes here and a few more there when it makes very little difference (if any).

DonDaddyD

What is it with this site and fun! Are the two mutually exclusive?

jeffhope wrote:

I loved the line:

I tried to buy a pair of Gator skins, but I can't willingly live with having worse tyres on my Fulcrums than my previous wheels

:roll:

Isn't this a delightful example of what I believe is called "consumerism"? The conventional solution is I suppose to continuously work harder and harder to afford new, more elaborate tyres, seat posts, frames, hubs, rims, spokes, saddles, bottom brackets, chains, derailieurs, bottle cages, bar tape etc for the rest of ones' lifespan. You're certainly at the right place for seeking such advice!?

You're right it is outright shameless consumerism.

When I was younger rebelling against the 'Man'. I spent vast amounts of my youth preaching against materialism explaining things like a jumper is just a jumper and its value is based on how well its purpose is met (to keep you warm) as oppose to the label attached to it. I read a book (well several) Consolations of Philosophy (close to a decade ago) by Alain De Botton (a friend of mine has since had the pleasure of interviewing him lucky B*stard) that strengthened this belief. This is a perspective that has shaped me and one that I will not loose.

But you know what? After years of being bullied for being outspoken, a geek intent on following on my own path and not buying Nike Air Max Classics to simply fit in. After all that preaching, after all that reading, after college, qualifying to sell Jewellery and Watches (Jash I liked the Seamaster by the way - its strap is orange because that's the last colour you see when you dive down deep apparently), after getting a Degree and finally starting a career I realised something.…

….I worked damn hard! Why can't I enjoy the shallow pleasures of consumerism if I can justify the worth and not loose sight of my core values?

These days I’ve stopped wondering about the value of items and the depth of me. My mind ponders on why people (adults) are so self-conscious. I wonder why they spend most of their time being so serious that they’ve lost the ability to laugh at things and themselves. I wonder as to why they get so strung out and uncomfortable discussing things they’ve been programmed to consider taboo, even though we all do it and have the same problems. I wonder why they spend all their time trying to be morally righteous and flawless when doing so is what (ironically) makes them flawed – “We are only human flaws are what makes us admitting them with humility shows strength of character.”

I conclude that some are just pompous to the point that they can’t enjoy simple pleasures without worrying what others think of them. While they spend their days judging everyone else – as it makes them feel secure. (And that isn't aimed at youor anyone else on the site).

Yes, it is just a pair of tyres, but if I couldn't afford the expensive tyres I'd settle for cheaper ones. There is no shame in not having enough or a lot of money. There is no shame in having money to spend. The problem resides in how you go about expressing this fact.

It's not that I disagree with you it is just that at what? £40 - £60 for a pair of tyres, a decision between Gator skins and Pro 3 Race, I don't even think the law of diminishing returns even applies to me yet. Hardly grounds for a Zen like debate.

DonDaddyD

Jeffhope wrote:

Generally, I would rather prefer to think this depends on how simplistic the experience is. For example, I would agree with you that the first time you receive a 'thing', like a shiny new toy, or get the adrenalin rush from doing a bungee jump or something of that nature, then the enjoyment is at its' peak in the first instance. But I would suggest that if you take as a counterexample, say, learning to play a musical instrument (a complex task), then the satisfaction received can actually increase over time as you become proficient.

The above is only accurate under the illusion that all experiences provide the same type of enjoyment. The nature of learning to play the Guitar (and yes I learned, I own a Yamaha Pacifica with a pearl scratch plate and gold plated hardware) is a progressive skill you get better as you practice so arguably you are going to enjoy it the better you become.

What I was referring to was experiences not tied to our control or ability. Much like a rollercoaster; when you go on the really big rollercoaster its hard to go back to the slower smaller ones and experience the same levels of frightful joy. We desensitise to certain stimuli, we become harder to please, to fright, to scare, to laugh etc. That was what I was referring to.

DonDaddyD

Jeffhope wrote:

Another idea, taken from Buddhist philosophy, might be to work on ones' desires - to come perhaps to accept that the important thing with a bicycle is that you can ride it, and the brand of tyres is not very important?

“A jumper is a jumper, its purpose is to keep you warm. The label doesn’t guarantee how warm the jumper keeps you its thickness does.”

Only thing is that I wasn’t discussing the brand of tyres beyond the fact that I want something different to Continental GP4000s. - Nothing wrong with wanting to try different brands.

To recap the tyres that came with the bike delivered something like 4 punctures in 6 days. They were crap in the dry, crap in the wet, they had crap grip, crap rolling speed. Crap crap crap, they were crap everywhere.

The value I see in race breed tyres.

They provide great amounts of grip, they role fast and they other a great deal of puncture resistance.

I know this because my GP4000s deliver on all these far more than all the tyres I’ve had previously.

I don’t want another pair of GP4000s but I would like the equivalent or better than in another make in terms of quality.

Yes lesser tyres do serve the same purpose, just not as well IMO.

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I use the tyres my bike came with... I've never changed the tyres on any bike I've owned.

:oops:

I came close on Gollum because they were almost worn out, but the ones on the Bowery seem to be made of sterner stuff. They're called Kendra. Not that that matters - I can't see you downgrading!

Thosee Kenda tyres (if they are the same as the those on the SCR) are the devil span and I assure you, with no exaggeration or bombast, that you will be noticably faster, braver, quicker at accelerating and sure footed with a tyre upgrade.

Interesting... clearly I wouldn't know!

However, I don't think that 'braver' is necessarily a good idea for me. I'd probably end up embedded in someone's bonnet. :shock: [/b]

lost_in_thought

DDD, good to see you're back to your essay-writing ways...

DonDaddyD

lost_in_thought wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

I use the tyres my bike came with... I've never changed the tyres on any bike I've owned.

:oops:

I came close on Gollum because they were almost worn out, but the ones on the Bowery seem to be made of sterner stuff. They're called Kendra. Not that that matters - I can't see you downgrading!

Thosee Kenda tyres (if they are the same as the those on the SCR) are the devil span and I assure you, with no exaggeration or bombast, that you will be noticably faster, braver, quicker at accelerating and sure footed with a tyre upgrade.

Interesting... clearly I wouldn't know!

However, I don't think that 'braver' is necessarily a good idea for me. I'd probably end up embedded in someone's bonnet. :shock: [/b]

I think I saw you on your bike 27th Dec in London - I was heading towards North London. I remember the bike from the colour the person however was taking a corner so fast they were a blur.

DDD, good to see you're back to your essay-writing ways...

Its just because I'm lonely....

simon_e

DonDaddyD wrote:

You're right it is outright shameless consumerism.

I have no problem with that.

My suggestion was you don't need to keep upgrading your steed, not that you shouldn't if that is your wish. It may not apply to you, but plenty of people are somewhat sheep-like and don't think enough. Or is it that I think too much? Baaaa.

Just buy a pair of Pro 3 Race, and stop justifying it to yourself and this forum

lost_in_thought

DonDaddyD wrote:

I think I saw you on your bike 27th Dec in London - I was heading towards North London. I remember the bike from the colour the person however was taking a corner so fast they were a blur.

I wish it had been me, I've been in plaster since the 17th of Dec, torn part-way through my achilles tendon.

DDD wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

DDD, good to see you're back to your essay-writing ways...

Its just because I'm lonely....

Awwwww...