Commuting on bike Versus Commuting by car

UnworthyPapaLazaru

Simonb256 wrote:

It actually costs me more to cycle to/from work than it would to commute by public transport.

To cycle my costs are:

Inital cost of bike : £500
new tyres every 3 months (as cycling 5 days a week would mean 1000 miles a month).: £50
new chain every quarter (ie every 3000 miles): £30
new cassette and chain rings every quarter (ie every 3000 miles): £100(ish)
Spare parts P.A.: £200 (I only replace/upgrade parts other than above when they break).

So thats:
£500(bike)+£920(parts etc) = £1420 yr1 and £920 per subsequent year.

commuting costs me around:

£845 (£65 for a bus/tram pass every four weeks).

Though it would still be less than driving.

Your LBS must love you!

squeeler

From my calculations I personally saved only £108 in petrol this year by riding into work rather than taking the car. Having bought a new bike in February and taking into account all the other cycling bits and bobs I've bought cycling will only pay for itself after several years.

My main reasons for commuting by bike are health and enjoyment, potential cost savings and environmental benefits are added bonuses to me, important but not the be all and end all.

For 2009 I intend to increase my days commuting from 23% of workdays this year to over 50%, thus getting fitter and giving me a small sense of eco-smugness!

Rich158

To be honest the further you commute the greater your savings will be. I'd use at least £65 of diesel/week so I've saved in the region of £3k since I started commuting in the summer. And that's noot counting the extra servicing on the car etc

bluecow

AndyManc wrote:

It's not a shallow interpretation at all.

Your own personal aspiration control your car use.

How many 6yr olds go skiing, teach him football instead.

The majority of people that live in an urban environment can live without a car, but choose not to for a number of reasons, the main one being they are lazy and have zero concern about the consequences of a car slave culture.

I don't think supermarkets should be open 7days/24 hours , they have destroyed local shopping, damaged the environment, further encouraged car slave culture and raised rampant consumerism.

The longer we promote car slave culture the more damage we do to self supporting local communities.

I think we should lower our personal self indulgent belief that we have the right to do what we want, when we want and instead take greater responsibilities for the consequences of our actions.

Just out of interest Andy, that food you order online, how does it get from the supermarket to your house?

cjcp

Simonb256 wrote:

new cassette and chain rings every quarter (ie every 3000 miles):

Was thinking about when I should replace my chainring only yesterday. Mine has done done over 10,000 miles. Hmmm. Might be time to change it...

sportbilly1976

crikey,

for what I thought was going to be a decent conversational and comparable thread...it is turning out to be rather bitchy about peoples personal lives....

surel;y this thread is about "COMMUTING on a bike versus a car"...so can we please stick to the commuting element... 8)

AndyManc

bluecow wrote:

Just out of interest Andy, that food you order online, how does it get from the supermarket to your house?

I've just started ordering food over the net.

I intend to make a bulk order every 4 months or so of foodstuffs with a long shelf life, tinned food, washing powder etc because carrying that weight in my panniers isn't doing myself or my bike any good.

I will still buy fresh food, dairy etc from the local shops.

So in answer to your question, it arrives by van and takes about 60 private vehicles off the road and they will soon be powered by dual fuel or electric.


.

bluecow

AndyManc wrote:

bluecow wrote:

Just out of interest Andy, that food you order online, how does it get from the supermarket to your house?

I've just started ordering food over the net.

I intend to make a bulk order every 4 months or so of foodstuffs with a long shelf life, tinned food, washing powder etc because carrying that weight in my panniers isn't doing myself or my bike any good.

I will still buy fresh food, dairy etc from the local shops.

So in answer to your question, it arrives by van and takes about 60 private vehicles off the road and they will soon be powered by dual fuel or electric.


.

Ok here are a few reasons as to why i wont do online food shopping...
There are no places local to buy fruit and vegetables and i wont have some spotty oik throwing the nearest thing into the trolley (i like to check from bruising and ripeness).
I dont want a substitute item when the thing ive ordered isnt in stock.
I dont know what i might want to eat in 4 months' time.
When i buy stuff like milk, i get the carton from the back with the longest shelf life.
If i want to make a particular meal, i dont want key items being left out leaving me having to scrap the entire idea.
Things will undoubtedly go astray at times. I cant be bothered with the hassle of recovering them and checking my delivery.
I actually like choosing stuff as i go round and trying new things.

This is just my opinion of course, whatever works for you, works for you. But dont lump all of us into the same boat. I agree with the principle but in practise...

In reply to sportbilly: The trouble with that is, people do other things with their lives besides commute (although sometimes it doesnt feel like it for some). I am lucky to be able to commute by bike but i can honestly say its doesnt save me a vast sum of money.

counterculture

i commute 10 miles a day, and dont have a car, and save stacks of cash but i spend it on tesco lager and butane gas, it works for me.

always_tyred

AndyManc wrote:

bluecow wrote:

Just out of interest Andy, that food you order online, how does it get from the supermarket to your house?

I've just started ordering food over the net.

I intend to make a bulk order every 4 months or so of foodstuffs with a long shelf life, tinned food, washing powder etc because carrying that weight in my panniers isn't doing myself or my bike any good.

I will still buy fresh food, dairy etc from the local shops.

So in answer to your question, it arrives by van and takes about 60 private vehicles off the road and they will soon be powered by dual fuel or electric.


.

They should put wind turbines on the top of electric vehicles so that they can recharge themselves, even when parked. That way you can get around the problem that getting power from coal fired power stations to an electric vehicle via multiple storage devices are less efficient than petrol engines.

(I am not being slightly serious).

bluecow

Always Tyred wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

bluecow wrote:

Just out of interest Andy, that food you order online, how does it get from the supermarket to your house?

I've just started ordering food over the net.

I intend to make a bulk order every 4 months or so of foodstuffs with a long shelf life, tinned food, washing powder etc because carrying that weight in my panniers isn't doing myself or my bike any good.

I will still buy fresh food, dairy etc from the local shops.

So in answer to your question, it arrives by van and takes about 60 private vehicles off the road and they will soon be powered by dual fuel or electric.


.

They should put wind turbines on the top of electric vehicles so that they can recharge themselves, even when parked. That way you can get around the problem that getting power from coal fired power stations to an electric vehicle via multiple storage devices are less efficient than petrol engines.

(I am not being slightly serious).

Can't we just power them by setting fire to fat people. Two birds, etc...

rhext

Always Tyred wrote:

They should put wind turbines on the top of electric vehicles so that they can recharge themselves, even when parked. That way you can get around the problem that getting power from coal fired power stations to an electric vehicle via multiple storage devices are less efficient than petrol engines.

(I am not being slightly serious).

But that's actually a good idea. In fact, they'd recharge themselves while moving too: the faster you go the more power you get. Ideal.

alfablue

rhext wrote:

Always Tyred wrote:

They should put wind turbines on the top of electric vehicles so that they can recharge themselves, even when parked. That way you can get around the problem that getting power from coal fired power stations to an electric vehicle via multiple storage devices are less efficient than petrol engines.

(I am not being slightly serious).

But that's actually a good idea. In fact, they'd recharge themselves while moving too: the faster you go the more power you get. Ideal.

Wot, like perpetual energy yo mean

greg66_tri_v2.0

cjcp wrote:

Simonb256 wrote:

new cassette and chain rings every quarter (ie every 3000 miles):

Was thinking about when I should replace my chainring only yesterday. Mine has done done over 10,000 miles. Hmmm. Might be time to change it...

Chainrings wear a *lot* more slowly than a chain or a cassette. I read a long complicated article about why this is, which may have been on Sheldon Brown, but the bottom line is in the that sentence.

cjcp

Greg66 wrote:

cjcp wrote:

Simonb256 wrote:

new cassette and chain rings every quarter (ie every 3000 miles):

Was thinking about when I should replace my chainring only yesterday. Mine has done done over 10,000 miles. Hmmm. Might be time to change it...

Chainrings wear a *lot* more slowly than a chain or a cassette. I read a long complicated article about why this is, which may have been on Sheldon Brown, but the bottom line is in the that sentence.

I've read something similar too. What got me thinking was (a) the sheer number of miles given that I;m only ever in the 53 for the commute, and (b) the shape of the teeth is noticeably different to those on the 39. Re the latter, I checked a spare, unused 105 chainring I have and the teeth appear to have a different shape too. I'll check out Sheldon Brown.

Bassjunkieuk

Always Tyred wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

bluecow wrote:

Just out of interest Andy, that food you order online, how does it get from the supermarket to your house?

I've just started ordering food over the net.

I intend to make a bulk order every 4 months or so of foodstuffs with a long shelf life, tinned food, washing powder etc because carrying that weight in my panniers isn't doing myself or my bike any good.

I will still buy fresh food, dairy etc from the local shops.

So in answer to your question, it arrives by van and takes about 60 private vehicles off the road and they will soon be powered by dual fuel or electric.


.

They should put wind turbines on the top of electric vehicles so that they can recharge themselves, even when parked. That way you can get around the problem that getting power from coal fired power stations to an electric vehicle via multiple storage devices are less efficient than petrol engines.

(I am not being slightly serious).

My Prius recharges its battery whilst out on the road - every time I brake or take my foot off the gas and coast the battery gets charged :-) I should imagine most of the higher end electric or hybrid cars use this technology.

Anyhow as I had a lul at work I thought I'd read this thread, all the points made are very valid. Like most people on here I have a family and so do need a car. Before anyone start suggesting that I don't need one I'd ask them to try getting around with 5 children under the age of 8 without one and then tell me I'm being selfish.
So far the furthest we (as a family) have gone without the family car (an 8 seater to get everyone in!) is to my parents house. This is about 3 miles from our home and we did it all walking, with the exception of the 2 youngest who where in the buggy and on a buggy board. We also had a scooter for the middle one so we could drag her when she got tired! This took the best part of an hour.

I've also done this journey by bike with the 2 eldest and whilst it was slightly quicker at about 40 minutes it still wasn't as quick as the 15 minute car ride.

Anyhow I'm going rather OT here. My job role means I also get a company car, which in some ways throws a spanner in the works of all the cost calculations as my only costs to run this car are petrol (which I can claim back for work mileage) and the extra tax I pay as the car counts towards my tax free allowance. I also pay a £25 per month admin fee. Heck I can even claim back for parking should I need to!

As for my bike I've had it just over a year now and most of the costs I've incurred are "one-off" rather then actual running costs. These are things like new lights, lock, various bits of clothing etc. As far as parts go I'm on my second set of tyres and brake blocks (both soon to be third), I've had one service in which the cassette, chain, BB and some gear cables where replaced. I've also recently got a new set of wheels (not strictly needed, but I wanted them!). I've also probably gone through 4 inner tubes - but I'm getting into the habit of repair and reuse now! I'd say my total spend on bike related gear is well over £500, as my wife delights in reminding me every time I mention something else I want/need!

As some previous posters have said for me the choice to cycle commute (which I can do for all but one site that I work on) comes down to the fact that it's much more enjoyable then the alternatives, keeps me fit, get me there quicker (in all but 1 instance where it is rather close but only because the site is literally next door to the train station) and gives me an excuse to actually get out on the bike!

Also since starting the cycle commute and getting involved with the forums in here, I've made several new friends and had numerous great evenings out, drinking and chatting about bikes with some like minded people

AndyManc

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

. Like most people on here I have a family and so do need a car. Before anyone start suggesting that I don't need one I'd ask them to try getting around with 5 children under the age of 8 without one and then tell me I'm being selfish.


:

You do not need a car , you want one , your lifestyle and aspirations means that a car will arguably make your life easier.

You need water and food , you aspire to owning a motor vehicle.



.

jimmypippa

Fat Kid wrote:

Sorry, can't agree with this at all. I think cycling as a money saving option is generally a myth.

Who here has ridden the same bike for 10 years? As keen cyclists, we are always upgrading our kit, buying new toys, clothing etc.

Given that most people (I certainly do) also own a car and regardless of how many miles one chooses to drive, there are heavy fiixed costs.

I'd go so far to say that cycling is a fairly expensive business and not a cost saver at all!

It depends,

for me it is:

The cost of public transport for me would be £25 per week of work or £1000 per year with a 40-week working period.

My commute is 13 miles each way, 5 days a week, so 130miles/week's work, with stop-start traffic for about 8 of them, and 150m altitude change, so fuel efficiency in a car would be pretty poor (35mpg?) this gives 5,200 miles a year commuting milage. Converted to what we buy petrol in, this gives about 12.5 km/litre, which works out at 416 litres (say 400) and thus about £400 in petrol alone ±20%, given the variability in petrol price. Add the rest in and it gets to be similar to the cost of public transport (bus, train works out at about £1500 per year).

I ride a £300 bike, so assuming (unrealistically) that I replace it completely every year, it comes out at equivalent to the fuel costs.

I don't have time for gym membership, but feel that it is less important to me now...

I also know that although a car *usually* is quicker, about once a quarter there is a complete SNAFU and the bike is far quicker. The car is better on average, but the maximum time is far worse than by bike. This is what started me cycling to work, as roadworks made public transport very poor, and I got bored of the additional hour in my evening comute.


I also know few car-drivers who like their commute, except my wife, wiho gets to drive further into the peak-district. The fact that there is a SCR thread shows that many cyclists enjoy their commutes.

lost_in_thought

AndyManc wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

. Like most people on here I have a family and so do need a car. Before anyone start suggesting that I don't need one I'd ask them to try getting around with 5 children under the age of 8 without one and then tell me I'm being selfish.


:

You do not need a car , you want one , your lifestyle and aspirations means that a car will arguably make your life easier.

You need water and food , you aspire to owning a motor vehicle.



.

Don't be a prat about this, Andy. He needs a car. It's not aspirational, it's necessary to transport 7 people, most of whom are children.

johnbirkby46213

AndyManc wrote:

rhext wrote:

Like most people I guess, cycling does not allow me to ditch the car:!

Most COULD ditch their car (I've done it) , the fact is, they are too scared to take the plunge.

How did most people cope 30yrs ago , my parents never had a car, they had 5 kids, they worked 10 miles away, and they managed no problem.

Since I ditched my car I use the local shops, bought a cycle trailer, use on-line gorocery shopping, got to know people in my local community, use my bike a lot more, I'm a lot happier, richer , fitter and contented, have more friends .

More people should try it, you will be amazed.

30 years ago there were things called buses. Our village gets one every blue moon providing there is an x in the month. And thats not very often. I think that peeps who live in or near cities/largeish towns need to remember that not all of us have the services they take for granted. My commute by bike however is very very pleasant along country roads. It takes me longer (about 2x longer) than by car but I don't care. I do it because I enjoy it. Cost savings...er not for me. According to computer in car, I get 40+ mpg. I've spent a small fortune on lights,clothing etc but who cares.
However my very very old parents need picking up from railway station....can't do that on a bike nor take daughter to swimming club 2x per week etc etc etc. Horses for courses. I didn't buy a bike to save money anyway...



.

Spitchips - BANNED

If everyone was given a Orange bike and fully equiped and all cars were banned for 10 yrs I am sure we awould all establ;ish cars are not ezssential. we would learn too adjust our lifeastylea nd live lifes with what we had on offer.

Bassjunkieuk

lost_in_thought wrote:

AndyManc wrote:

Bassjunkieuk wrote:

. Like most people on here I have a family and so do need a car. Before anyone start suggesting that I don't need one I'd ask them to try getting around with 5 children under the age of 8 without one and then tell me I'm being selfish.


:

You do not need a car , you want one , your lifestyle and aspirations means that a car will arguably make your life easier.

You need water and food , you aspire to owning a motor vehicle.



.

Don't be a prat about this, Andy. He needs a car. It's not aspirational, it's necessary to transport 7 people, most of whom are children.

Cheers LiT, couldn't have put it better myself! I did see the response yesterday but wasn't going to respond as I didn't really want him typing out the same thing again..........
I'm sure that if it was just me that I had to look after I could get by without a car. I live within 10 minutes walk of 2 huge supermarkets (one of them is a 24 hour!) and within a 20 minutes ride of the town centre and a few large retail parks. I also have fairly decent PT links.

But as it stands I have chosen to have a family and for that reason a car is needed. We have had times when we have got by without a vehicle for a week but this has been under special circumstances such as when we go to Centre Parcs on holiday, the cars get put in the car park at the bottom of the site and you are expected to walk or cycle everywhere (or get the land train at the last one, only because it was rather hilly!) and during that week I had great fun taking the kids out as it was safe to do so, we have a tag along and a bike trailer for taking the youngest one's out who can't ride a bike properly or do so at a snails pace so we could in theory all go out for a ride. Unfortunately due to the difference in fitness between me and my good lady riding as a family can be a bit slow going but we do get there!

Speaking of that holiday I'd also be interested in seeing how you suggest we got there without a car (2 actually) as we first went to see the father in law who lives in the middle of the coutryside near Malvern (about 250 miles away) and then went to the holiday park (another 100 miles, but heading back towards home), please also bear in mind that we had luggage for the 7 of us and 5 bikes in total - but then again I suppose I didn't NEED a holiday I ASPIRED to one...........

AndyManc

lost_in_thought wrote:

Don't be a prat about this, Andy. He needs a car. It's not aspirational, it's necessary to transport 7 people, most of whom are children.

OI , do you want to keep a civil tongue or I'll start getting abusive, or are you just trying to justify your use of a car because of guilt.

He chooses the lifestyle he lives, he chooses to use a vehicle to make life easier .... NOT BECAUSE IT'S NEEDED.

Many families near me have no car, they organise their life around it.

They use local facilities, they get a coach/train when they go on holiday, they organise shopping trips ..... the same organisation as generation before them committed themselves to WITHOUT THE USE OF A CAR.


I've heard all these excuses before .. it's all bollocks .

The vast majority of those that claim not to be able to live without a car are in fact saying .... they don't want to make the effort .... it's as simple as that.

alfablue

I'm with AndyManc on this. We think we need cars, but we don't, we have just organised our lives around using them. For various reasons many people (with families) do not have cars, or lose their ability to drive, life doesn't end, it just changes. If we go back 40 years we would find car ownership in a minority of families, it was aspirational then, now it is ubiquitous like the mobile phone we all think we need one, we don't.

chuckcork

Interesting discussion, but for all the arguments too and fro, I se everyone is factoring in the cost of buying a bike and owning it over a period of time, but not the cost of buying a car over the same period?

Why is this not considered, when the average owner would buy, 2 cars in the same period?

From my own pespective my missus bought a car last year for €14,000 and in the time she has had it I have myself bought 2 bikes and probably spent around about €5,000 in total on bikes, clothing, parts, servicing etc (yes my LBS does love me!). But I've also done several times her mileage, at one point in the last year doing about 1000km a month just in commuting, compared to her something like 250km or so (she trained it in to work as well). Per km my bike has been ridiculously cheap by comparison and has had all the flexibility of her car in terms of choosing when to travel, punctuality and so on.

In the process I also lost something like 12kg, which I wouldn't have, have enjoyed myself immensely, and shrugged off some of the 'commuter depression' I have felt when getting the bus or driving in the past. That alone is priceless so can't be calculated!

Spitchips - BANNED

chuckcork wrote:

Interesting discussion, but for all the arguments too and fro, I se everyone is factoring in the cost of buying a bike and owning it over a period of time, but not the cost of buying a car over the same period?

Why is this not considered, when the average owner would buy, 2 cars in the same period?

I beleive the RAC have estimated the cost of running a car at £15k per year - all inclusive.

So for 10yrs if you had a £1000 bike and spent £1000 on it over ten years then total cost would be £2000.

Car for ten years approximatlaey speaking = £15k * 10 = £150,000

Therefore based on this 'creative accounting' a bike is £1480,000 cheaper than a car over the same period.

alfablue

My contribution (a little way back) used AA calculations of 58pp mile which did include the purchase cost.

A solution I am contemplating is joining the City Car Club, they have a Nissan Micra parked at the end of my street which I can book online and use for about £4.00 per hour including all fuel and other costs. This would solve the problem of when (a few times a month) I have to work 70 miles away, and it would cost me about £1200 per year. At the moment I am spending about £6000 per year on the car, which I could do without except for these occasional journeys, but use more often because it is there.

Spitchips - BANNED

Basically speaking if you are a motorist you will get greased up and shafted by the goverment. They love to penalise motorists. They love to milk motorists for all the money they have. If you own a car they will tray and squueeze as much money out of you as possible. Alistar Darling has a hatred of cars and does all he can to tax the motorist and milk them for what they are worth.

You never, ever here of any government screwing the cyclist. In fact they love cyclists and are even starting to do cycle to work schemes and more.

You are more liklley to go to jail over running over a kid or person for manslaughter. Deaths caused by cylclists is virtually minimal.

If you had a garage and didn't have a car then that would make a brilliant bike shed and bike workshop. With a car it would either be use the garage to have as a mechanics workshop OR put the car in it. So ideally there is extra outlay for needing a double garage - one for the car, one for the tools, kit, spare tyres etc, maybe trailer and roof rack, or anything else. :shock:

Another expense is congestion charge too for motorists. Cyclists dont get that, or parking fees and fixed penalty notices for things like parking on double yellow lines.

My sister also has to pay the local council to park her car outside her own flat. :shock:
If she wanted to park her bicycle outside they would not charge her a penny. You see the governemnt love to get the lube out if you have a car.

chuckcork

Actually there is another difference in the calcs. For the car option the biggest expense is buying the car. If you don't have the spare £££££ in the bank thats an expensive loan, but either way you have to take a big hit first.

Whereas with a bike you can spend a lot less on the initial outlay, even a crappy bike for less than £100, and then go on from there.

Spitchips - BANNED

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/ru ... index.html

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/car/car-costs.html

http://www.whatgas.com/car-running-costs.aspx

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/cost-of-yo ... calculator

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6068568.stm

http://www.endsleigh.co.uk/calculators/car.html

has a basic guide for running cost of car